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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2008, at 7:27:57
Last night I fainted or something after standing up and stretching. This is not new for me. I used to do it rather frequently as a teen, but they never came up with any explanation for it. About 10-15 years ago, I had a bunch of tilt-table testing and other stuff to rule out Benign Positional Vertigo since I get a sort of dizzy feeling when I lie down sometimes or lean back into the sink at the hairdresser's. Even when I look up to kiss my husband sometimes. (LOL, just looking at him makes me dizzy!) Nothing came of that, either.
But anyway, I haven't passed out since I was a teen. And I'm not sure "dizzy" or "vertigo" are the right terms, because what I feel when I lean back or stretch with a backward lean is a sort of pins and needles, tingling feeling in what can only be my diaphragm. If I don't stop the stretch fast enough, I can feel like I'm going to fall over, and in the last couple of years I've even felt jerking and twitching in my body while standing still trying to regain my bearings. I usually have to hold onto something solid for a minute or so until it passes.
Last night I stood up, did my usual stretch, and then found myself back in the office chair, twitching, jerking, and apparently not responding to my husband's voice, which I could hear at first but not understand. He said my eyes were twitching back and forth (nystagmus). I had no "warning" tingling sensation in my diaphragm this time. It was just stand up, stretch, and then come to in the chair.
Any idea what's going on? My best guess is that maybe I pinch off some cranial nerve when I stretch or lean back. Maybe a cranial nerve related to the autonomic nervous system?
And is it normal to twitch and jerk during a faint? I fear it's not.
Help???? I'm calling the doc today, and of course my mom, but I wish I had some idea what this was. EEG's, MRI's, tilt table tests (horrible!) didn't tell them anything, and I think that last doc thought I was just nuts. sigh
Thanks in advance for any assistance.
gg
Posted by Dinah on June 20, 2008, at 15:37:57
In reply to Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus???, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2008, at 7:27:57
Could it be a seizure of some sort?
Some of that does sound like the inner ear stuff I've been having, but that's all clearly above the neck.
I used to pass out a lot when I was a teen. I don't remember there being any movements when I was out. But my experience isn't extensive.
Have you googled it? I found a remarkable amount about my vertigo by typing in the symptoms. Of course, I managed to misdiagnose myself with it, so take that with a grain of salt. Still, it gave me something to do until my doctors ran the tests.
When do you hear from them?
Posted by Midnightblue on June 20, 2008, at 16:37:50
In reply to Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus???, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2008, at 7:27:57
GG,
Stop stretching! LOL How terrifying for you! I am so sorry and hope you get some answers soon.
An aside, our granddaughter would go into this seizure like thing where she stopped breathing and would start twitching when she was startled usually by pain (pinched finger, ran into something). She scared us to death, but grew out of it in about 5 years.
MB
Posted by Sigismund on June 20, 2008, at 17:45:57
In reply to Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus???, posted by gardenergirl on June 20, 2008, at 7:27:57
The tingly feeling in your diaphragm is interesting.
The diaphragm is an unusual muscle, both in shape and the voluntary/autonomic thingo.
Nothing to do with Nardil?
So what's a cranial nerve? Like a nerve from the neck?
I suppose those people who are paralysed and need ventilators after breaking their necks have damaged such a nerve that controls the diaphragm.This hardly bears thinking about. I hope my contribution doesn't make you more apprehensive.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2008, at 10:23:53
In reply to Re: Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus??? » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on June 20, 2008, at 15:37:57
> Could it be a seizure of some sort?
That's my fear. :(
> I used to pass out a lot when I was a teen. I don't remember there being any movements when I was out. But my experience isn't extensive.I'm not sure why, but I want to say that it's not uncommon for teens, perhaps especially girls? But I have no idea what would be going on then versus now. What's in common is the stretching back. The twitching and stuff is new.
I tried googling my smptoms, but mostly what I got was links to medical dictionaries. I also tried to look up general fainting/syncope, but I couldn't tell if the twitching part was common or not.
I went to the doctor on Friday, and he did basic checks and then referred me to a neurologist. I go there Wednesday afternoon. Friday's doc said that the twitching is not unheard of, but since it was new to me, he wanted me to get checked out. I agree with him.
Incidentally, I saw my T while I was in the waiting room. :) He asked me how my garden was going this year. I felt rather tongue-tied as I was preoccupied with this fainting thing.
thanks, I'll let you know what they say tomorrow.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2008, at 10:26:03
In reply to Re: Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus??? » gardenergirl, posted by Midnightblue on June 20, 2008, at 16:37:50
Yikes! I'm glad she grew out of it. :)
I'm trying not to stretch like that. It must be such an ingrained habit, because I've caught myself starting to a number of times in the last few days. It will be interesting to see what the neurologist says.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2008, at 10:38:36
In reply to Re: Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus???, posted by Sigismund on June 20, 2008, at 17:45:57
> The tingly feeling in your diaphragm is interesting.
Yep. I'm glad I finally found a good way to describe it clearly. I used to just say I felt dizzy, and that would throw off the docs. My mom told me that my dad used to have similar, though not exactly the same type spells when he was about my age. He was first diagnosed as diabetic, and then they changed it to epilepsy. Neither were right. He now thinks it's an allergy of some kind. But anyway, apparently he used to get tingly in his balls before the spells came on. :) I'm still not entirely sure I wanted to know that. Hope it's not TMI for everyone else, lol.
>
> The diaphragm is an unusual muscle, both in shape and the voluntary/autonomic thingo.Yep. It's cool how it works to change the gas pressure in the chest for respiration.
>
> Nothing to do with Nardil?It's possible, at least I think it is, that the twitching could be related to Nardil. I get myoclonic jerks a lot more since I've been on it, and I'm also hyper-reflexive now. Perhaps the fainting thing is the same thing that happened when I was a teen, but the added twitching and jerking is due to Nardil? My GP wouldn't really speculate about that. I'll leave it to the neuro.
>
> So what's a cranial nerve? Like a nerve from the neck?Basically. They are nerves that originate from the brain and come out of the skull where the skull and the spine meet. They are responsible for sensation and movement of mostly the head, neck, and upper internal organs, if I remember correctly. I think that the diaphragm is innervated by the vagus nerve, one of the last if not the lowest cranial nerves. Nerves that come off the spinal cord are called spinal nerves in general, btw.
> I suppose those people who are paralysed and need ventilators after breaking their necks have damaged such a nerve that controls the diaphragm.
Yep. It has to be pretty high up on the spine, as you said, high in the neck area for respiration to be affected.
>
> This hardly bears thinking about. I hope my contribution doesn't make you more apprehensive.Nah. I'm actually not hugely worried about this. If it's a seizure, I'll worry, but it seems so much like the fainting before. I'm more curious about what's going and why it's back. I love anatomy and neurology stuff, and I'm ultra curious about my own nervous system, so I'm actually looking forward to monopolizing the neurologist's time. :D
My husband, on the other hand, is rather upset and freaked by this whole thing. He got the up close and personal view of it all, including seeing my eyes start going rapidly back forth before they closed (nystagmus). He's never seen my or anyone else faint before. And unfortunately, I broke or at least severely bruised his toe when I was on my way down and he was trying to catch me. :(
Hmmm, I wonder if I should ask him if he wants to come along tomorrow?
Thanks,
gg
Posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2008, at 12:33:45
In reply to Re: Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus??? » Sigismund, posted by gardenergirl on June 24, 2008, at 10:38:36
GG shining a light in the eyes made mine go back and forth I guess like you're describing in the ER when I had the Vertigo they said it was the way they diagnosed it. So hopefully it is vertigo. You've been on nardil a long time. Hope it's not that. Post when you find out. And Good Luck. Love Phillipa
Posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2008, at 22:53:37
In reply to Re: Passed out, twitching, jerking, nystagmus??? » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2008, at 12:33:45
Well, the neurologist was pretty okay. He either didn't realize my background and education or didn't care, because he was rather challenging when I would use a clinical term versus a lay term. But whatever. He said what I feared, that it's likely we'll never know what this is. He could put me on anticonvulsants or something for just in case, but considering I can just avoid stretching heartily and such and hopefully avoid passing out, I think I'd pass on any more meds. He does think an EEG is warranted since I haven't had one since I was a teen, and the twitching and such is new. I have that next week on Tuesday, incidentally, the day my in laws arrive, something I just found out. (EEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!)
The other interesting thing was his attitude about Nardil and Lithium. He said he'd never seen it used for anyone who wasn't severely depressed and resistant to everything else. I tried to explain the relative safety about them and that it was actually a good choice for atypical depression, but he didn't seem to care, which is fine. But I couldn't tell if he was implying that I must be more severe than I let on or that I was being irresponsible for taking them. It was interesting that he admitted that he didn't really know that much about Nardil's effect on the central nervous system. I felt like saying, "Shouldn't you read up on that, then, for my sake?"
sigh
I'm really not worried, per se. He did say that what I was feeling in my abdomen could be an "abdominal aura", related to partial something seizures. That would be concerning. But really, I'm mostly just curious about why this happens, and I'd be so comforted to know how it happens. I doubt I'm going to know anymore by the time I'm done here, though. :(
gg
Posted by Midnightblue on June 29, 2008, at 0:05:13
In reply to Update, posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2008, at 22:53:37
GG,
Errr I hate to suggest this, but if things go really bad with the in-laws maybe you should stretch a bit? LOL
Sorry you didn't get better answers. That seems to be my problem these days.
MB
Posted by gardenergirl on June 29, 2008, at 11:26:21
In reply to Re: Update » gardenergirl, posted by Midnightblue on June 29, 2008, at 0:05:13
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2008, at 12:52:47
In reply to Snort! (nm) » Midnightblue, posted by gardenergirl on June 29, 2008, at 11:26:21
Like my passing out they will never know. At the time I was in my 50's early and have had Ekg's MRI's since then and nothing but that darn thyroid of mine is out of wack and of course the chronic lymes. If the docs are like the ones here they all have their specialties and no nothing about meds for other conditions. Sad. Love Phillipa and ps what ever happened to the one doc you saw for all conditions he knew you literally inside and out.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 29, 2008, at 16:23:48
In reply to Re: Snort! » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2008, at 12:52:47
>what ever happened to the one doc you saw for all conditions he knew you literally inside and out.
I have no idea who you mean, sorry.
gg
Posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2008, at 19:57:58
In reply to Re: Snort! » Phillipa, posted by gardenergirl on June 29, 2008, at 16:23:48
Sorry wasn't more specific a family doctor. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on July 1, 2008, at 8:19:37
In reply to Update, posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2008, at 22:53:37
All neurologists are not created equal. My previous sleep neurologist was positive I had narcolepsy, and nothing I told him would shake that belief. The new one had me go off for a blood test that couldn't confirm narcolepsy but could rule it out, and it immediately ruled it out.
I've still ended up with a diagnosis of idiopathic hypersomnia, so basically he still doesn't have a clue. But I feel better about it than I did with the other guy. He explained very well the factors that probably come into play, and he has me on an effective treatment and confronted my insurance company to do it.
My first headache neurologist wanted to prescribe me narcotics. Period. My second headache neurologist did a thorough neurological exam, but no expensive tests, asked a lot of very detailed questions, and basically had me feeling very comfortable that she understood my problem and could treat it.
It doesn't sound like you feel comfortable with this guy. Is it possible to find another?
Posted by Midnightblue on July 5, 2008, at 1:29:44
In reply to Update, posted by gardenergirl on June 28, 2008, at 22:53:37
GG,
How ya doing? thinking of you....
MB
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2008, at 19:35:12
In reply to Re: Snort! » gardenergirl, posted by Phillipa on June 29, 2008, at 19:57:58
> Sorry wasn't more specific a family doctor. Phillipa
I guess you mean the GP I saw before I started going for free to the health clinic at school. I'm not sure I'd say he knew me inside and out, but I did think we could work together well.
gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2008, at 19:39:04
In reply to Re: Update » gardenergirl, posted by Dinah on July 1, 2008, at 8:19:37
Hi Dinah,
I agree, it's a bit of a crap shoot in finding a doc to feel comfortable with and trust. I think it's as much his age--he graduated med school the year I was born, lol. So he might not be as skilled at talking WITH patients versus talking TO or AT them. But he's certainly knowledgeable, and he's an expert at reading EEG's. I think that unless this continues, it's probably not worth seeking out another doc. But if it does and I don't get any answers, yeah, I'll try another. Right now I'm juggling three different specialists for three different issues, though, and I kind of just want to close out at least one of them, sigh.gg
Posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2008, at 19:43:30
In reply to Re: Update » gardenergirl, posted by Midnightblue on July 5, 2008, at 1:29:44
Hi mb,
Thanks for asking. I've got my EEG tomorrow afternoon. Here's hoping it goes better than the last attempt, which was a disaster of timing issues from the start. I've been so focused on my inlaw's visit, which went pretty well but was a ton of work, that I haven't fretted much about this. And in the meantime, I found out that the pelvic ultrasound I had because of unusually heavy bleeding didn't show much, but they now want to do something called a sonohistogram. Woo hoo, flooding my uterus with water and then doing that ultra sound again...sounds like loads and loads of fun. Buckets of it. Sigh. And I can't schedule it til my next period because I missed it by "that much" (a visual) this time as they only do US on Tuesdays. If this is what getting older entails, um, is there a third option? ;)How are you?
gg
Posted by Midnightblue on July 6, 2008, at 23:09:55
In reply to Re: Update » Midnightblue, posted by gardenergirl on July 6, 2008, at 19:43:30
GG,
I think I had one of those done several years ago! It was supposed to be painless. NOT I had pretty good cramping, but it wasn't horrible. Make them put the water in S L O W L Y. It felt sort of like your worst period ever, but only for a few minutes. I did bleed some though. I think they stabbed the uterine lining with the water tube. They weren't supposed to do that....
I'm doing so-so. I hate the heat and wish one of the seven doctors I have seen this year could fix just ONE thing wrong with me!
MidnightBlue
Posted by gardenergirl on July 18, 2008, at 14:52:27
In reply to Re: Update » gardenergirl, posted by Midnightblue on July 6, 2008, at 23:09:55
> GG,
>
> I think I had one of those done several years ago! It was supposed to be painless. NOT I had pretty good cramping, but it wasn't horrible. Make them put the water in S L O W L Y. It felt sort of like your worst period ever, but only for a few minutes. I did bleed some though. I think they stabbed the uterine lining with the water tube. They weren't supposed to do that....Ouchie, ouchie! Thanks for sharing your experience with it. I'm sorry it was so painful. I'll make sure to speak up about the water.
>
> I'm doing so-so. I hate the heat and wish one of the seven doctors I have seen this year could fix just ONE thing wrong with me!I'm sorry it's been so rough. I would imagine it gets really old to feel let down by yet another doctor. Stupid bodies. Why don't they cooperate more? ;) I hope things improve for you all around.
Stay cool.
gg
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