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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by NARCOLEPTIC on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
Any research done on this? Isn't there a correlation between Mg and Ca [homeostatic inverse balancing system]
Interestingly neurotransmitter release is caused/ regulation to a degree by Ca influx. Could a dysregulation of this sytem cause a global malfunction?
Far fetched maybe but worth asking.
Additionally Mg affects NMDA receptors and is supposedly being tried in some ADHD patients to prevent tolerance? The whole process has something to do with Ca ions, which, also, and VERY interestingly too is antagonized by most anti-epileptics which brings me to the whole new topic of calcium channel antagonists like Nimodipine and verapamil being used off-label in some affective diosrders.
Any comments?
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's, posted by NARCOLEPTIC on June 25, 2005, at 13:47:14
Hi.
Calcium supplements exacerbate my depression within an hour of ingestion. Magnesium supplements do not. They just make me sleepy.
> Any research done on this? Isn't there a correlation between Mg and Ca [homeostatic
inverse balancing system]Yes. I believe much of it is presynaptic.
> Interestingly neurotransmitter release is caused/ regulation to a degree by Ca influx. Could a dysregulation of this sytem cause a global malfunction?This occurs at the nerve terminals.
> Far fetched maybe but worth asking.Again, my doctor at the NIH did not think it too far fetched to make it a pet theory of his. I don't know if he would say the same thing today, though. As one of the early leaders in PET imaging in the field of psychiatry, and having been exposed to the work of Husseine Manji, he probably appreciates more the brain's complexity and the multifactorial nature of depressive phenotypes.
> Additionally Mg affects NMDA receptors and is supposedly being tried in some ADHD patients to prevent tolerance?
That's interesting. Perhaps they should give memantine a try, then.
> The whole process has something to do with Ca ions, which, also, and VERY interestingly too is antagonized by most anti-epileptics which brings me to the whole new topic of calcium channel antagonists like Nimodipine and verapamil being used off-label in some affective diosrders.
> Any comments?You posted some real good stuff here. Thanks.
Nimodipine was tried as monotherapy at the NIH in 1992-1994. It was a big of a flop. I guess they also tried it drug combinations. You don't hear much about nimodipine because it probably doesn't work. Of course, it is prohibitively expensive. Another L-type Ca2 channel blocker in that series would be almodipine. I never heard of its successful use in affective disorders. Verapamil has been used for years off label for bipolar disorder with some success. It is real good as a prophylactic against migraine as well.
Right now, I doubt that anomolies in magnesium/calcium activity can explain globally the etiology of affective disorders.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's, posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 14:24:16
Forget the neurotransmitters, the end target of all these drugs in intercellurall. In Dr. Manjii's words, if you don't have the right circutry in place, you can mess around all you want the neurotransmtters and it won't have any effect.
I beieve this wholeheartedly.
Linkadge
Posted by Sarah T. on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's, posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 14:24:16
Hi, Scott,
You said that Calcium supplements exacerbate your depression within an hour of ingestion. Can you elaborate? How is your depression worsened by Calcium? Do you become more sluggish physically and mentally? Do you become more irritable?
Thanks.
Sarah T.
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's » SLS, posted by Sarah T. on June 25, 2005, at 18:16:00
Hi Sarah.
It has been perhaps 10 years since I had the experience, but it was pretty much a global worsening of my depressive state that resulted from taking extra calcium. That included a decrease in mental and physical energy, and an increase in "psychic pain" and anxiety. I really don't remember much more about it except that I have been afraid to take calcium supplements ever since.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's » Sarah T., posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 20:44:58
I was trying to find some words that explained my experience with calcium supplementation.
"and an increase in "psychic pain" and anxiety",
seems to fit
Linkadge
Posted by Sarah T. on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's » Sarah T., posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 20:44:58
Thank you, Scott. I used to take a supplement that contained both calcium and magnesium. Over the past year and a half, I stopped taking supplemental calcium (except for the Calcium in my multi-vitamin), and now I just take extra magnesium at night. I do feel better this way. I do get a lot of Calcium in the foods I eat, but I don't know how well it's absorbed.
Posted by Sarah T. on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's, posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 20:51:51
> I was trying to find some words that explained my experience with calcium supplementation. >
> "and an increase in "psychic pain" and anxiety",
> > seems to fit > LinkadgeHi, Linkadge. When I hear the word "dysphoria," I tend to equate that with "an increase in psychic pain and anxiety."
Posted by linkadge on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:15
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's » linkadge, posted by Sarah T. on June 26, 2005, at 0:39:45
I would agree with that connection.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on June 28, 2005, at 12:35:16
In reply to Re: High Levels Of Calcium In Drinking Water and AD's » linkadge, posted by Sarah T. on June 26, 2005, at 0:39:45
> > I was trying to find some words that explained my experience with calcium supplementation.
> > "and an increase in "psychic pain" and anxiety",
> > seems to fit
> When I hear the word "dysphoria," I tend to equate that with "an increase in psychic pain and anxiety."Dysphoria is a good word to describe my experience upon the ingestion of 1200mg of calcium. However, there was also an increase in psychomotor retardation.
- Scott
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