![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Michael83 on July 1, 2009, at 4:19:59
I have over the past few years been in a long battle with myself over religion. The struggles of intellect and logic with modern Christianity have caused a conflict of confusion in my mind in searching for what is right. Today I would like to share what has been shown to me.
I will be brief. I have read long and highly referenced writings based on this with detailed scriptural references. However my posts will be to explain it, not as much to convince you of it.
Firstly, the topic of free will first and foremost has troubled me. I do not find any logical understanding of how this mechanism can operate. I reserve the right to be incorrect on this matter, but I also find much Biblical documentation that I think implies that free will is non existant either.
Furthermore, the Bible specifically says "Jesus is Savior of the world." The world includes all people. Moreso, the Bible says "As in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive." This excludes no one.
Additionally, the Bible says that "Anyone who loves is born of GOD and knows GOD."
Has any one human on this earth never in their entire life loved? I doubt you would find such a person.
The Bible also says that "whoever sins is of the devil." If all have sined, are all of the devil?
Let me explain. The Bible says there are two vessels. A vessel of Honor and dishonor....made from the same lump. Such is man, one lump, but two vessels.
As I said will not go into detailed references, but from what I have consistently gathered, inside each of us (save those whom the LORD has healed)....
....there are demons living in our flesh. Flesh cannot inherit the KINGDOM.
But man is more than flesh, man is a soul. The flesh we are bound and held captive by. As Paul said, "who will deliver me from this body of death?"
Paul spoke of this in Romans 7:21-24. Paul said that when he sins, it is not he that does it, but the sin that dwelleth within him.
What will become of this situation? I will explain.
Jesus spoke of this in the Parable of the Wheat and tares. Matthew 13:24-30
Read closely at the passage above. Who put the tares there? It also appears the tares cannot be torn up because they are bound with the wheat. For now, in each of us, exists the evil, which resides in our flesh, but will be cast out where out true souls can shine.
This was also reitterated with Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55. Paul said "we will be Changed." All of us will.
I have seen Biblical evidence for this over and over again. Furthermore, logically it makes philoshopical sense.
I believe 100% that Jesus will save everyone.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 4, 2009, at 7:04:46
In reply to I believe Jesus will save everyone., posted by Michael83 on July 1, 2009, at 4:19:59
> I have over the past few years been in a long battle with myself over religion. The struggles of intellect and logic with modern Christianity have caused a conflict of confusion in my mind in searching for what is right. Today I would like to share what has been shown to me.
>
> I will be brief. I have read long and highly referenced writings based on this with detailed scriptural references. However my posts will be to explain it, not as much to convince you of it.
>
> Firstly, the topic of free will first and foremost has troubled me. I do not find any logical understanding of how this mechanism can operate. I reserve the right to be incorrect on this matter, but I also find much Biblical documentation that I think implies that free will is non existant either.
>
> Furthermore, the Bible specifically says "Jesus is Savior of the world." The world includes all people. Moreso, the Bible says "As in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive." This excludes no one.
>
> Additionally, the Bible says that "Anyone who loves is born of GOD and knows GOD."
>
> Has any one human on this earth never in their entire life loved? I doubt you would find such a person.
>
> The Bible also says that "whoever sins is of the devil." If all have sined, are all of the devil?
>
> Let me explain. The Bible says there are two vessels. A vessel of Honor and dishonor....made from the same lump. Such is man, one lump, but two vessels.
>
> As I said will not go into detailed references, but from what I have consistently gathered, inside each of us (save those whom the LORD has healed)....
>
> ....there are demons living in our flesh. Flesh cannot inherit the KINGDOM.
>
> But man is more than flesh, man is a soul. The flesh we are bound and held captive by. As Paul said, "who will deliver me from this body of death?"
>
> Paul spoke of this in Romans 7:21-24. Paul said that when he sins, it is not he that does it, but the sin that dwelleth within him.
>
> What will become of this situation? I will explain.
>
> Jesus spoke of this in the Parable of the Wheat and tares. Matthew 13:24-30
>
> Read closely at the passage above. Who put the tares there? It also appears the tares cannot be torn up because they are bound with the wheat. For now, in each of us, exists the evil, which resides in our flesh, but will be cast out where out true souls can shine.
>
> This was also reitterated with Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:50-55. Paul said "we will be Changed." All of us will.
>
> I have seen Biblical evidence for this over and over again. Furthermore, logically it makes philoshopical sense.
>
> I believe 100% that Jesus will save everyone.Michael83,
You wrote,[...Jesus xxx save yyy...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by {save}. If you could post here what you are mweaning by that, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
You wrote,[...Jesus xxx...]
I am unsure as to which Jesus you are wanting to mean in relation to what your conception of Jesus is. If you could post here the identification of the Jesus that you are wanting to mean as your perception as to what or who Jesus is, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
You wrote,[...I can not find any xxx yyy understanding of how this mechanism can operate...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean concerning then those that do find a xxx yyy that allows it to operate in their thinking. If you could elaborate more on this, then I could have a better understanding of what you could or could not be wanting others to believe about those people that do find a xxx yyy for that to operate and respond accordingly.
You wrote,[...in Christ xxx yyyy be made alive...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. Could you post more about what {alive} means to you here?
You wrote,[...anyone who loves...]
Could you post here your understanding of what love entails in relation to the verse that you cited?
Lou
Posted by Michael83 on July 8, 2009, at 3:18:19
In reply to Lou's request for clarification » Michael83, posted by Lou Pilder on July 4, 2009, at 7:04:46
Thank you for your response Lou.
["I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by {save}. If you could post here what you are mweaning by that, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly."]
Save, as I would presume, from death. Saving us from death.
["I am unsure as to which Jesus you are wanting to mean in relation to what your conception of Jesus is. If you could post here the identification of the Jesus that you are wanting to mean as your perception as to what or who Jesus is, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly."]
I am unsure as to your question, but I am referring to Jesus, as being the Son of God, who walked the earth 2000 years ago, who was crusified and Rose from the dead.
["I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean concerning then those that do find a xxx yyy that allows it to operate in their thinking. If you could elaborate more on this, then I could have a better understanding of what you could or could not be wanting others to believe about those people that do find a xxx yyy for that to operate and respond accordingly."]
I am unsure as to you question Lou, I am simply stating I do find a logical explanation to the function of freewill.
["I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by that. Could you post more about what {alive} means to you here?"]
Free from death.
["Could you post here your understanding of what love entails in relation to the verse that you cited?"]
Love as an expression of altruistic intentions towards those we find pleasing to be surrounded with.
Posted by Deputy Dinah on July 8, 2009, at 9:55:23
In reply to I believe Jesus will save everyone., posted by Michael83 on July 1, 2009, at 4:19:59
> Furthermore, the Bible specifically says "Jesus is Savior of the world." The world includes all people. Moreso, the Bible says "As in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive." This excludes no one.
Michael, I think it would be fine under site guidelines to express your belief that Jesus is willing to save everyone.
But this is a site with posters from many faiths. Dr. Bob asks that we post with respect to other faiths. It may be your belief that Jesus is the only means to salvation, if that was what you were expressing, but if so, this board is not an appropriate place to post all aspects of your beliefs.
The philosophy of this board is stated in the opening paragraph of this board.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by Sigismund on July 13, 2009, at 22:48:16
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification, posted by Michael83 on July 8, 2009, at 3:18:19
As has been said before, if God has arranged eternal life it will make no difference what any of us thinks. Those who are not grateful but rather resentful for their continued unwanted existence will be put in the proper place. The kinds of pictures I have in my mind include the traditional one of the serried ranks chanting ceaseless praise and also the newer one of rolling hills covered with suburbia and deers and lions enjoying the company of the family with the home in the background and very good curbing along the street. Death, while not something to look forward to, is necessary and good, because eternity is a long time to spend anywhere. At some time in the future, I will have had enough....certainly of myself.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.