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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 11, 2008, at 20:52:32
I had some articles that where faith-based about morals and values in these rotten times. They made direct reference to religious characters. Where are they? Or am I being told to "shut up" again? Did they get deleted by 'accident'?
Matthew 21:12
"Then Jesus went into the temple, threw out everyone who was selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the moneychangers' tables and the chairs of those who sold doves."
Jay :-(
Posted by Geegee on October 12, 2008, at 0:06:40
In reply to Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 11, 2008, at 20:52:32
You've got 26 posts on the current Faith board. They are not among those?
gg
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:05:02
In reply to Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 11, 2008, at 20:52:32
> I had some articles that where faith-based about morals and values in these rotten times. They made direct reference to religious characters. Where are they? Or am I being told to "shut up" again? Did they get deleted by 'accident'?
>
> Matthew 21:12
>
> "Then Jesus went into the temple, threw out everyone who was selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the moneychangers' tables and the chairs of those who sold doves."
>
> Jay :-(Jay,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by posting the bible verse above. If you could post here what you are wanting to mean, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
You wrote,[...morals and values in these..times...religious characters...].
If you could identify the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Who are you referring to as {religious characters}?
B. In,[...Jesus..threw outeveryone that was selling and buying in the temple...], could you post here who in your thinking those people that could have been and those that they could not have been if you know?
C. In,[...overturned the monychanger's tables and the chairs of those that sold doves...], could you identify, if you know, who the moneychanger's are and who are thoose that sold doves?
D. Could you explain, if you know, why doves were sold in the temple?
E. Could you post here any relationship that you may want to convey here that could be with Jesus acting as the bible verse that you cited here writes?
F. In,[...I had some articles...about morals and values..] could you post here what those morals or values could be in the article that you are referring to?
G. If you could post those morals and values, could you also post how they are related in your thinking to the bible verse that you cited here?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:11:36
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-mrvdhasehm » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:05:02
> > I had some articles that where faith-based about morals and values in these rotten times. They made direct reference to religious characters. Where are they? Or am I being told to "shut up" again? Did they get deleted by 'accident'?
> >
> > Matthew 21:12
> >
> > "Then Jesus went into the temple, threw out everyone who was selling and buying in the temple, and overturned the moneychangers' tables and the chairs of those who sold doves."
> >
> > Jay :-(
>
> Jay,
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by posting the bible verse above. If you could post here what you are wanting to mean, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> You wrote,[...morals and values in these..times...religious characters...].
> If you could identify the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> A. Who are you referring to as {religious characters}?
> B. In,[...Jesus..threw outeveryone that was selling and buying in the temple...], could you post here who in your thinking those people that could have been and those that they could not have been if you know?
> C. In,[...overturned the monychanger's tables and the chairs of those that sold doves...], could you identify, if you know, who the moneychanger's are and who are thoose that sold doves?
> D. Could you explain, if you know, why doves were sold in the temple?
> E. Could you post here any relationship that you may want to convey here that could be with Jesus acting as the bible verse that you cited here writes?
> F. In,[...I had some articles...about morals and values..] could you post here what those morals or values could be in the article that you are referring to?
> G. If you could post those morals and values, could you also post how they are related in your thinking to the bible verse that you cited here?
> LouJay,
If the bible verse that you cited here is not related to,[...I had some articles..about morals and values...], could you post here why you cited that bible verse?
If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 12, 2008, at 9:12:28
In reply to Re: Where are my 'religious based' posts? » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Geegee on October 12, 2008, at 0:06:40
> You've got 26 posts on the current Faith board. They are not among those?
>
> ggNo, these were ones that had combinations from other topics on the 'social' board. I was told the religious parts would be directed here.
Jay
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 12, 2008, at 9:15:32
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-mrvdhasehm » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:05:02
Well, it's the Economy. Wall Street is a good start. Repent, indeed
Jay
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:26:40
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification-mrvdhasehm » Lou Pilder, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 12, 2008, at 9:15:32
> Well, it's the Economy. Wall Street is a good start. Repent, indeed
>
> JayJay,
Could you post here if you are or are not wanting to link the economy with the bible verse that you quoted? If you are, could you post any relation, in your thinking, to the verse and the use of Jesus and the moneychangers and those that sold doves?
If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:40:27
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-guelyuspsrkr » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:26:40
> > Well, it's the Economy. Wall Street is a good start. Repent, indeed
> >
> > Jay
>
> Jay,
> Could you post here if you are or are not wanting to link the economy with the bible verse that you quoted? If you are, could you post any relation, in your thinking, to the verse and the use of Jesus and the moneychangers and those that sold doves?
> If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
> LouJay,
You wrote,[...Wall Street...repent...]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here by the above. If you could clarify the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
If you are wanting to mean that there is or is not a relation between Wall Street and the moneychangers and those that sold doves in the bible verse that you cited here, could you post here what that relation could be if you are wanting to mean that there is a relation?
Lou
Posted by Sigismund on October 12, 2008, at 15:05:38
In reply to Lou's request for clarification-guelyuspsrkr » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Lou Pilder on October 12, 2008, at 9:26:40
Let's change direction. Let's leave Wall St. I read this on the weekend and this bit is worth it.
The story is of Van Nguyen, a young Australian of Vietnamese extraction who attempted to import some heroin to pay for his brother's debts and by a mischance was apprehended in Changi Airport, Singapore.............
>Van Nguyen's journey towards the gallows in Singapore was one of genuine transformation: he had to lose his life to find it. Julian McMahon [his lawyer] speaks of him as being, when McMahon first took on his case, "a typical young street punk who had not come from terrible circumstances. Young men like that, they have bravado, which of course to someone twice their age you can see straight through to be more like fear ... He was under the impression that he knew a lot about his situation, that he had it under control, that he probably didn't need too much help but thanks for coming anyway." Then it all came crashing down. Singaporean law calls for mandatory execution for anyone holding more than 15 grams of narcotics, an extraordinarily small amount, under the circumstances. Van Nguyen was sentenced to death in March 2004, his final appeal was rejected in October 2004, clemency was rejected in October 2005, and he was hanged on 2 December 2005.
>"It's very hard to mature," said McMahon, "when you're in your cell 23 hours a day and you get a very occasional visit from your lawyers." But it appears that Van Nguyen did mature while on death row. It appears, if we assume that his prison writings are not merely the hysterical happy face of a person in chronic denial, that he took responsibility for his actions and his life; that he lost all thought of self-gain and cared only for how he could help others, his mother in particular; and that he died, albeit with great regrets, a man at peace. There's the irony, the absurdity in all this: under the drawn-out agony of the death-row wait, some people journey to the outer reaches of their emotional capacity and moral intelligence, becoming more fully human - and then we kill them.
>After receiving his death sentence, Van Nguyen heard a nun, Sister Gerard, singing Ave Maria' to another prisoner on death row. His heart melted, he said, and he reached out to her. He had no real religious background. He struggled with reading and making sense of the Bible, a vast compendium of words, of dense, baroque stories. During an earlier visit from Lasry [another lawyer, I think] and McMahon, Van Nguyen described his failure to make any headway with the Bible. Lasry isn't a particularly religious person; McMahon has always kept his beliefs separate from his legal practice. Nonetheless, McMahon said, "I couldn't really leave him in that state where he was deeply troubled ... and it was really the only thing outside of his legal situation that was on his mind." So the Jesuit-educated lawyer told Van Nguyen of the Ignatian technique of repetitive meditative engagement with a text: of pausing over a passage or a few words and imagining, pondering, and then perhaps coming back to the same thing the following day, and building up a picture of its meaning in the mind. When Van Nguyen asked for a starting point, McMahon suggested Psalm 23, The Lord Is My Shepherd', with its promise of restoration, and bounty, and mercy. (Later, McMahon gave him some of Thomas More's sixteenth-century prison writings - the same ones I had leafed through when he left me at his desk to read through Van Nguyen's papers. "To lean unto the comfort of God," Van Nguyen would have read in More's Meditation on Detachment'. "To have ever before my eye my death that is ever at hand.")
>The more radical change that McMahon and Lasry and all others who had contact with Van Nguyen began to note happened some time after the Ave Maria' incident, in May 2005. Van Nguyen told McMahon he was in the shower, staring out a tiny window slot at the distant sky, and was suddenly overwhelmed with the sense that he'd been wasting his time, all of his life, and didn't want to waste even a single second more before he died. By then, McMahon said, "he knew in his heart that he was going to die." From that moment, the only instructions he gave to McMahon and Lasry were to do with how to help his friends, his brother and, most of all, his mother.
>Van Nguyen's private writings are a desperate attempt to chart his dwindling life: in them there is the anger and regret and fear and distractedness you might expect, but also at moments a peaceful resignation, and even a sense of humour. "Strange how the simplest of thoughts become incoherent come pen and paper," he writes. "I simply turn off as easily as they approach. Emotions have no consequence here. The motions of each day are met one subliminal step at a time ... My reprieved time inspires me as much as it frightens. Welcome to the Matrix."
>Visits brought both highs and lows: "Are we not in constant search of sense? With each departure, I am humbled. And with renewed reverence, I breathe."
>"I am afraid," he wrote, "to be forgotten."
>Then one day he woke up, and knew it was his last. "There was no one that I am aware of," said McMahon, who was in the prison on the morning of the execution, "to whom he bore any ill will when he died. He generated a lot of love in his prison environment, which is a strange phenomenon to come across." The 15 other prisoners on death row sang Amazing Grace' as Van Nguyen was taken from his cell and escorted the handful of metres to the gallows. They continued singing; that would have been the last thing he heard.
>On Singaporean death certificates, the phrase "Condition leading to death" is used in place of the more familiar "Cause of death". On Van Nguyen's certificate, the condition is stark and simple: "fracture dislocation of cervical spine". A second phrase reads, "Approximate interval between onset and death"; for Van Nguyen, the interval was "INSTANTANEOUS".
.......
OK, now some of the young men who prayed with Nguyen met our PM sometime later, and Rudd gave them the Bible his father had owned before he died when Rudd was a young boy.
It's a new experience to be able to look at our leaders like this.
As for Wall St and Bush..................
Posted by Deputy 10derHeart on October 12, 2008, at 21:24:57
In reply to Re: Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 12, 2008, at 9:12:28
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20081003/msgs/857138.html
Posted by Geegee on October 12, 2008, at 22:16:54
In reply to Re: Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 12, 2008, at 9:12:28
> > You've got 26 posts on the current Faith board. They are not among those?
> >
> > gg
>
> No, these were ones that had combinations from other topics on the 'social' board. I was told the religious parts would be directed here.
>
> Jay
>
Ah, and I see 10der replied, too. It can be hard to follow re-directs, especially if they go somewhere else. :)gg
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 12:04:50
In reply to I replied on Admin » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Deputy 10derHeart on October 12, 2008, at 21:24:57
My *actual* posts are gone! Mannnn..
Jay
Posted by Dinah on October 13, 2008, at 20:27:47
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..YOU DON'T understand.. » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 12:04:50
Jay, I didn't delete any of your posts. They aren't gone. Just moved.
Here's a link to the thread.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/poli/20081002/msgs/856097.html
I put a link in my initial redirect.
Is everything ok? You don't seem like your usual self. How's your dad?
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 21:02:39
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..YOU DON'T understand.. » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by Dinah on October 13, 2008, at 20:27:47
I am sorry...I found the posts. This is just such a touchy subject for everyone. If you read John Steinbeck's "Grapes of Wrath", about living through the Great Depression, it completely takes you through what is the horrific idea of living in utter poverty. People don't seem to understand poverty these days, when they all have internet connections and nice little white fenced homes. While I was working on my degree in Social Work, I worked for a Housing Help Center, and used to go out at nights to the places where everybody, young teens to elderly, used rags to sleeping bags to call their 'home'. Kids who where prostitutes...men getting high on Scope..all living near sewers with rats and dirt, and such a shame in in such a wealthy country.
My point being, is we are going to see more of this, and the rich will just keep getting richer while the poor keep getting screwed. And ya, in a world where under the Eyes of God, He Created EVERYONE EQUAL, and this decadence goes on, the greed and such, it is truly just *wrong* and is a SIN. Period.
Jay
Posted by 10derHeart on October 13, 2008, at 22:52:05
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..YOU DON'T understand.. » Deputy 10derHeart, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 12:04:50
I'm glad you found the posts, Jay. I'm sorry if this was extra distressing for you.
It's the last thing I meant to happen.
Posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 23:35:57
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..YOU DON'T understand.. » Jay_Bravest_Face, posted by 10derHeart on October 13, 2008, at 22:52:05
> I'm glad you found the posts, Jay. I'm sorry if this was extra distressing for you.
>
> It's the last thing I meant to happen.Thank you kindly. To give you some context....My Dad's Mom, who of course would have been my grandmother, died just a year or so after my Dad was born because she couldn't afford some very basic treatment for a simple illness, at around age 22.(I don't know the specifics. Dad's real father was an alcoholic, and this was during the Depression, so he just gave the kids away to an orphanage. My Dad to this day still hasn't seen what his real Mother looked like, at 71 years old.) This is partly why poverty greatly disturbs me, and so does the decadence of greed and the rich. My Dad is part of my heart and soul. I really, really feel his pain. That is why I am working to change things.
All's I seem to get is resistance.Jay
Posted by rayww on October 18, 2008, at 11:46:08
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..Thank you..a reason.... » 10derHeart, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 23:35:57
> > I'm glad you found the posts, Jay. I'm sorry if this was extra distressing for you.
> >
> > It's the last thing I meant to happen.
>
> Thank you kindly. To give you some context....My Dad's Mom, who of course would have been my grandmother, died just a year or so after my Dad was born because she couldn't afford some very basic treatment for a simple illness, at around age 22.(I don't know the specifics. Dad's real father was an alcoholic, and this was during the Depression, so he just gave the kids away to an orphanage. My Dad to this day still hasn't seen what his real Mother looked like, at 71 years old.) This is partly why poverty greatly disturbs me, and so does the decadence of greed and the rich. My Dad is part of my heart and soul. I really, really feel his pain. That is why I am working to change things.
> All's I seem to get is resistance.
>
> Jay
>
>I'm sorry for your pain and for what you have witnessed with regards to your Grandfather. Do you think life is over when it ends? Do you think a loving God would put us here to suffer, and then drop out of the picture? Home is where the heart is my friend. In my imagination, when we go home at the end of life, we continue on. I would imagine that all those precious little babies that are killed in abortions will have their chance to grow up. They will belong to a family, just like your Dad will belong to his. If God has said that our minds aren't capable of imagining how wonderful it will be hereafter, I feel free to imagine the greatest that I can. What harm does it do to hang onto that kind of hope? Don't despair. Imagine the most wonderful eternity, and while clinging to that hope, endure whatever you have to now. That's how I made it through having and raising 8 kids. That's how I make it through the day. Imagine that it will only get better, that all those poor suffering people all over the world will have their chance after they endure whatever pain they've been placed in now. It's like being born with no arms, or going to war, giving your all, then coming home to suffer even more. This life is not all there is. It's all here for a purpose. Feel free to imagine what purpose that might be. Remember that no matter how big your imagined picture is, it won't even come close to the reality of what will be. Endure and make the best of your situation whatever it is. Don't despair. Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, love God. http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/2/9#9
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 8:42:34
In reply to Re: I replied on Admin..Thank you..a reason.... » 10derHeart, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 13, 2008, at 23:35:57
I'm sorry about your grandmother Jay. I can see why you so honor your father. Your grandfather wasn't much of a role model, yet your father made the choices to be a great dad to you. Maybe in part he was honoring the mother he had never known?
It's hard when someone we loves hurts. I hope your Dad is also full of the joy of a job well done (but not finished of course), of a family loved and supported, and of a loving son.
Posted by rnny on January 18, 2010, at 23:16:33
In reply to Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by Jay_Bravest_Face on October 11, 2008, at 20:52:32
I have just come over to the faith section of this site and would not find it comforting if someone is taking down posts they don't like simply because they don't agree with the theology or the like.
Posted by Lou Pilder on January 19, 2010, at 9:09:54
In reply to Re: Where are my 'religious based' posts?, posted by rnny on January 18, 2010, at 23:16:33
> I have just come over to the faith section of this site and would not find it comforting if someone is taking down posts they don't like simply because they don't agree with the theology or the like.
rnny,
You wrote,[...if someone is taking down posts..]
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean by the above. If you could post here answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. Can you identify the member(s) of those in the catagory of {someone}?
B. What is meant by {taking down}?
1. posting something about the post that is derogatory?
2. deleting the post?
3. wrestling with the post?
3. something else?
Lou
This is the end of the thread.
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