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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 2, 2005, at 20:46:12
Were you raised religious or is it something that developed over time? People are known to become more religious as they age, is this a factor with anyone? Or did it have to do with an illness.....? Im thinking about researching this for a paper.
Im interested in finding out why/how people become religious.
Posted by Phillipa on October 2, 2005, at 23:57:25
In reply to religious?, posted by rainbowbrite on October 2, 2005, at 20:46:12
Rainy I don't know. I think a lot of is from your upbringing. I myself am more spiritual. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Dena on October 3, 2005, at 2:13:00
In reply to Re: religious? » rainbowbrite, posted by Phillipa on October 2, 2005, at 23:57:25
I guess it would depend upon what you mean by "religious".
to some folks, that would be a bad connotation, conjuring up notions of empty ritual, going through motions, even being hypocritical...
to others, it would just mean their relationship with God, and all that surrounds it.
We're all spiritual people, and we're having a human experience...! I believe we're created to worship someone, or something, and we all end up doing that to one degree or another, even if the "someone" turns out to be ourselves (which I find is always my own temptation, when it boils down to the basest level).
I believe that many people, as they mature and age, turn to a faith, as they begin to realize that this life isn't forever... facing one's own mortality is a sobering thought, and the notion of simply ceasing to exist is frightening. So, turning to a religion to explain the afterlife is a common experience.
But for others, getting older only makes them more stubborn against any form of religion... which I personally believe is sad. Those people don't strike me as very happy.
I had my own personal spiritual awakening as a teenager, when the horrid angst of "who am I? what is my purpose?" drove me to seek out God... and I found I had to do it on His terms, though He met me right where I was. I didn't have to clean up my act in order to "deserve" a relationship with Him, but He did go about the process of cleansing me, and continues to do so, as I continue to make messes!
I "fell away" from Him for many years, determined to do things my own way, and to have as much fun as possible! I came to my senses, after wasting my money, my health, my sanity, and nearly my life... realizing that I wasn't having fun... wasn't even truly living -- merely existing, and miserably at that.
I had to say, "ok... Your way", and I was rather shocked to discover that His way was really rather cool, amazing, challenging, and yes - fun!
Also tough. But I've found that all things that are truly worthwhile are truly tough.
My main battles are with myself, wanting to get back into the driver's seat. And also the incredible ways in which I can fool myself into thinking that my motives are somehow better than they really are. I'm always a bit reluctant to face those unflattering parts of myself, but it's a comfort (& a RELIEF!) to realize that God is never, ever, not even for a nanosecond, disappointed in me (because to be disappointed, you have to have too-high expectations, and God is not fooled in the least about me, and loves, and even LIKES, me anyway!).
THAT's amazing grace...!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by rayww on October 3, 2005, at 14:59:39
In reply to religious?, posted by rainbowbrite on October 2, 2005, at 20:46:12
Babies and little children have much more capacity to learn than do adults. Some parents think they should not mention religion to their children until they are adult enough to make a conscious choice. Others think they should teach chilren to pray when they are very young, and help them to develop their own relationship with God.
"Train up a child when he is young and when he is old he will not depart from it" holds very true. I taught my children while they were in the womb, and as soon as they were born I spoke to them in spirit, where I was sure they could feel it. When I looked them into the eyes and told them I loved them I also told them their Heavenly Father loved them. They have always known God loves them. I have always known God loves me. If you call that religious, then we're religious.
When you pray with your child make sure they know you are really talking to God, get into the feeling with your child. Teach them the emotions as you teach them prayer. It provides such a solid foundation for their faith, and if they start out that way, it will stick with them. The spirit can testify to a child as much as it can testify to you or I. Speak softly around children, look at them lovingly, touch them gently, and mention god. They'll make their own connections.
Whether or not you call this being "born" religious, your own belief will still develop over time. And as far as it having to do with an illness, I think you're talking about something entirely different, unless you mean does illness force you to turn to God for help.
People can belong to religion without being religious. If a person is religious they will have private religious behavior; they will pray, they will read scripture, they will be kind, etc.
I don't think I am more religious now than I was when younger. I know more, but I have sinned more, I have seen more, and it's not all religious. Sin has a way of separating us from God until we repent, though God stays with us and helps us along the way. Dena explained it very well. (way to go Dena!)
Posted by Dena on October 3, 2005, at 16:13:03
In reply to Re: religious?, posted by rayww on October 3, 2005, at 14:59:39
Well thank you for the kind words, Rayww!
As a sinner, saved by grace, who continually falls (& falls, & falls), I'm astounced by God's mercy and love... and how He keeps meeting me where I am, sitting there in the pig stye of my own making, and scoops me up (provided I'm willing to get up... He'll let me sit there, too).
I love the verse from Proverbs that you quoted: "Train up a child when he is young and when he is old he will not depart from it".
Most of us have taken that verse at face-value, and believed it meant, "Teach your child to obey, to know right from wrong, and when they're older, they'll stay on the moral path."
However, that's a hollow promise, when you consider the number of children who (after being taught morality), choose instead to rebel, and break their parents' hearts, who're left wondering "what did we do wrong?!?"
We have to go back to the original Hebrew language, and understand the context of what the writer of Proverbs (attributed to King Solomon) meant.
The word for "train" is referred to the clearing out of the mouth of a newly born baby, and meant, "Create an environment for life."
The words for "in the way they should go" means "in keeping with his individual gift or bent", or, in other words, consistent in the way in which God created THAT child to be.
So, to put the original phrases together means something far different than "make them be obedient" so that they'll always stay that way.
It means: Create an environment of life for that child, in keeping with how God created them to be, and when they're older, they'll be able to be true to who He designed them to be.
It's not a promise that they'll stay on "the straight and narrow", but an admonishment to parents to rely on God to show them who that person is meant to be, and to help them as best as we can to enable them to fulfill their God-given potential...
And, yes, of course I agree that those of us who know God should help a child to develop a relationship with Him, from a very early age, so that they too can have a real and vital relationship with Him that will outlast their childhoods -- a relationship that they can OWN, rather than relying on their parents' faith (because God has children, but no grandchildren...!).
My two cents' worth.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by lynn970 on October 3, 2005, at 20:04:31
In reply to religious?, posted by rainbowbrite on October 2, 2005, at 20:46:12
I dont call it religious. I was raised in a Catholic home. I did not know Jesus though. I guess all I had was religion.
I did have a growing hunger for more of God though. When I would say my prayers at night as I did all of my life, I began to feel like God was there. I had always just said repetious prayers in the past. It meant nothing to me. Now, I was actually just talking to God. I cant explain it, but in my mind I say A hand holding a swing with a little girl swinging on it. Below the swing was fire. I felt as if God was holding my up. Holding me, protecting me from the destruction that I was headed for if I kept on my destructive path. It wasnt scarry. I felt love like I had never felt before.
I asked Jesus into my heart shortly after my experience above. I was not at a church. No one lead me into a prayer. I was by myself.
I cannot explain the joy, love, peace, and everything wonderful that I felt. In a moment, God had delivered me from smoking. I could not say foul words anymore, and my interests had completely changed. I was 18 years old at the time. I was not on any meds at the time, nor did I need any. I had such a wonderful prayer life. I saw miracles happen. I remember praying for people and they were healed.Unfortunately, I began to neglect my prayer life. I slowly stopped my Bible reading, and slowly began to backslide. I even began smoking again. After having a baby, I needed to get on meds for depression/meds. My spiritual life was dry. Not gone, but not flourishing either. I had too much comprimise in my life.
Praise God! Praise God! I am back. I have rededicated my life to God. The joy is back. I have quit smoking again, and I am headed in the right direction. I am not where I want to be, but I am not where I used to be either.
It is not religion anymore for me. It is a relationship with a loving, real, powerful heavenly father.
Luv ya lots,
Lynn
Posted by dominique on October 3, 2005, at 22:17:18
In reply to religious?, posted by rainbowbrite on October 2, 2005, at 20:46:12
> Were you raised religious or is it something that developed over time? People are known to become more religious as they age, is this a factor with anyone? Or did it have to do with an illness.....? Im thinking about researching this for a paper.
> Im interested in finding out why/how people become religious.
>I was lead through all the spiritual rights of a Catholic child but never wanted or yearned for religion until my confirmation in high school. It was then that I began to want to go to church, for myself. I began to go alone and then brought my youngest sibling every Sunday. I joined the choir and am still in it now. I now have an understanding of life: why's and how's of and the reasonings behind things. I just strive to live it better. I know that I will never reach that level; because, that would make me almost saintly. But, I just try to bestow the knowledge that I do have to my family and friends as well as those that I come in contact with. It has helped me through a lot of circumstances in my life, and kept me from dwelling deeper into the darkness; from the knowing of the depths beyond the light, I was able to back out of the tunnel that kept pulling me in.
It is without religion that the world is falling apart and hatred and horror is beckoning at our doors....
We must pray, and pray... to end this darkness of destruction, worry, hatred, and violence that lingers around us....Keep the Faith
DomI received this in an email last night, and believe it to fit me just perfectly. My husband agrees.
"Lord, keep Your arm around my shoulder and Your hand over my mouth."
Posted by rainbowbrite on October 4, 2005, at 20:27:29
In reply to Re: religious?, posted by dominique on October 3, 2005, at 22:17:18
Thank you everyone for your wonderful posts! they were very helpful and got me thinking. I went to sunday school every week growing up but am not religious. Anyway I find it interesting to hear about peoples beliefs and how they got to where they are with them. Im uneducated with regards to religion/spirituality but I am more and more interested in it and I think I am going to do my topic on how people find religion/spirituality.
Thanks again
Posted by Dena on October 4, 2005, at 21:42:46
In reply to To everyone, posted by rainbowbrite on October 4, 2005, at 20:27:29
" I went to sunday school every week growing up but am not religious."
Just as a side note, knowing God isn't about religion. Religion is the man-made framework set up to "contain and explain" beliefs. Sort of organized beliefs.
But knowing God is about a relationship with Him. Starting out by taking a leap of faith that He's real... in fact, you can ask Him to show you whether He's real or not. Then be open to how He may show you...
Then, once you believe that He exists, you can ask Him to reveal Himself to you -- as He is, no matter what any other religion may say about Him. Just trust Him that, if He's indeed God, i.e., creator of all that is, He's perfectly capable of communicating with you, and even willing to have you get to know Him.
Then, just enjoy the journey...
If, at some point, your relationship with Him turns into something that you want to share with others (who see Him as you do), then look for those people... it's called fellowshipping, and many have benefited from that "horizontal" sort of relationship.
You may find that sort of thing in a church, or in some other, perhaps surprising, place.
If you ask Him to, and you truly want Him to, God will find such a place/environment for you.
But -- and you can take this "advice" or toss it -- I encourage you to put religion aside, and make a relationship with God your adventure's goal!
I wish you every blessing in finding out who He is, and how much you're loved...!
Shalom, Dena
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