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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 18:24:46
hey all,
i have some general musing and questions. to start, let me say that i am no expert on either "religion" and my musing are just that, musing, wondering what these two are about.that said, it seems to me that in Buddhism a person is considered "whole" in that enlightenment is the realization that one is whole and is apart of everything else, so in that sense there is no self.
in Christianity, it seems, that a person is lacking without God, in particular, Jesus. people have "sinned" (a concept i don't understand) and require redemption from their sin or else they are going to hell.
so in choosing btw the two, i have to decide whether i beleive that i am a whole person w/out any other outside force or whether i am lacking that which i need to be whole, that i need to accept Jesus Christ into my life.
i find these two "religions" diametrically opposed to one another and am unable to resolve my beliefs. i was raised a Christian and cannot get rid of it, roughly speaking. But Buddhism appeals strongly to me. so there is the puzzle: how to fit the two together. any ideas/musings/advice would be greatly appreciated!
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 2, 2004, at 18:41:31
In reply to whole (Buddhism) vs incomplete (Christianity)???, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 18:24:46
sm,
You wrote,[...I find these two "religions" diametrically opposed to one another...any ideas...].
Could you clarify if you are referring to Buddhism as a "religion" that has a God, or not, that created the heavens and the earth and all living things? If you could, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 19:01:19
In reply to Lou's response to smokeymadison-bugd » smokeymadison, posted by Lou Pilder on December 2, 2004, at 18:41:31
i consider Buddhism to be more of a philosophy than a religion, and as such, not as concerned with how the world was created. from what i know (which really isn't that much) there is no "God" in Buddhism like there is in Christianity. i have heard one account of a follower of the Buddha who asked how the world was created and the Buddha basically said that such ponderings would not get him any closer to enlightenment and were therefore trivial.
my dilemma is, is that i believe in some sort of higher power (which puts me closer to Christianity) but at the same time i also believe that i am whole just as i am, without the need of redemption to wash away my "sins" Like i said, i don't believe in the concept of sin either.
so where is the need for a higher power in my life if i am whole just as i am? i don't believe that this higher power and myself are totally separate entities.
What is most important in Buddhism is the Dharma, the Truth. once one realizes this truth, one is free. i consider the Dharma to be something like the ultimate design, the script by which we live and die. Sorry to be so vague, i am going on gut feelings and those aren't easily translated into words.
hope this helps, some, if any Lou.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 2, 2004, at 19:20:18
In reply to Re: Lou's response to smokeymadison-bugd, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 19:01:19
sm,
You wrote,[....Buddihism to be more of a philosophy than a religion...there is no "God" in Buddhism like there is in Christianity...]. [...Buddha ... said that such ponderings(how the world was created) were...trivial...].
Are you saying that in Buddhism there is no God, but that Buddhism is a philosophy? or are you saying that one does not know in Buddhism if there is a God or not? or are you saying something else? If you coould clarify that, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 2, 2004, at 20:10:54
In reply to Re: Lou's response to smokeymadison-bugd, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 19:01:19
sm,
You wrote,[...sorry to be so vague...arn't easily translated into words...hope this helps,some, if any,Lou...].
I believe that your statement,{hope this helps}could apply also with me. I believe that if we add to each of our replies to each other, that the vagueness could be less.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 2, 2004, at 21:28:26
In reply to Re: Lou's response to smokeymadison-bugd, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 19:01:19
sm,
You wrote,[...my dilemma is, is that I believe in some sort of higher power in my life...without the need of redemption...].
I also believe in a higher power. I believe that this higher power can be heard by anyone. I also believe that the concept of redemption is one that a lot of people feel that they do not need. I feel that I can possibly communicate how this "dilemma" of yours can be solved.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by alexandra_k on December 3, 2004, at 0:06:58
In reply to whole (Buddhism) vs incomplete (Christianity)???, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 18:24:46
Hiya.
I think that there are different groups of people (with different beliefs) within Buddism in much the same way that there are different denominations within christianity, and there may be similar differences within other religions - I am not sure.
Some buddists think that Buddah is god
Others say that he was not (and indeed he said that about himself). I think it is tibetan buddism that considers that there isn't a god or a higher power.I think that buddists largely claim that everything is one.
So in a sense there isn't a self and there isnt a chair or a computer or any distinct things at all as everything is one.
But then paradoxes are sources of inspiration and enlightenment.
Maybe it is reflecting on everything being one that results in your finding yourself.
Perhaps you have to lose it in order to find it.Does this make sense?
Posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 0:29:18
In reply to whole (Buddhism) vs incomplete (Christianity)???, posted by smokeymadison on December 2, 2004, at 18:24:46
Yeah, I find Buddhist concepts easier to relate to. But Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is within. That's pretty Buddhist. And Jesus also said something about the way to the father is through me. Some people take that literally, but if you take a broader view, you can assume Jesus=love, and father=spirit, so it can mean the way to connect to spirit is through love. Buddhists talk about compassion (love) leading to enlightenment (spirit), and vice versa, so again it's similar.
And Buddhism has the notion of having to reincarnate over and over until you can get off the wheel of rebirth, whereas Christian salvation only requires one lifetime to achieve. So you could say Christian salvation gives more bang for the buck.
Not that I'm arguing in favor of Christianity-- just having fun with the comparison. I like the eclectic approach anyway-- take inspiration wherever you find it.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2004, at 11:29:00
In reply to Re: whole (Buddhism) vs incomplete (Christianity)??? » smokeymadison, posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 0:29:18
Tabitha,
Thank you for explaining what you did in your first paragraph. One of the things that I liked about your post was your understanding of that if a=b and b=c, then a=c.
You mentioned the broader view. I liked that.
Best regards,
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2004, at 11:38:28
In reply to Re: whole (Buddhism) vs incomplete (Christianity)??? » smokeymadison, posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 0:29:18
Tabitha,
You wrote about [..the Kingdom of Heaven is within...].
Then are you saying that The Kingdom of Heaven can be experianced as one lives, as of now? If Paridise is The Kingdom of Heaven, then , in your opinion, could someone be in Paridise today?
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 13:32:08
In reply to Lou's response tp Tabitha's post-nocttfebm » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2004, at 11:38:28
I always took that quote to mean that true happiness (re-union with Spirit) is possible in this lifetime. Many faiths put all the emphasis on salvation after death, in some other place. That makes me a little sad, so I find the idea of Paridise within to be inspiring.
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2004, at 15:29:44
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp Tabitha's post-nocttfebm » Lou Pilder, posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 13:32:08
Tabatha,
You wrote,[...I find the idea of Paradise within...].
In my faith experiance that I have been writing about here, it opened with me opening a Gate that when opened there was a great gulf with a bridge , like a rope bridge , spanning the gulf to the other side. And there was a Rider on a White Horse on the other side waiting for me.
Few people have ever listened to me , yet believe what my report was. Yet today, I remember that Great Gulf and how going across that on that bridge brought me to Paradise, which gave me the power to overcome, now. And I tell others that today they can be in Paradise. People call me crazy, they shoot out their lip at me, they call me all manner of evil. These are bad breaks to get in life. Yet today, I consider myself, to be, the luckiest man, on the face of the earth.
Lou
Posted by Tabitha on December 4, 2004, at 0:18:10
In reply to Lou's reply to Tabitha- » Tabitha, posted by Lou Pilder on December 3, 2004, at 15:29:44
>Yet today, I consider myself, to be, the luckiest man, on the face of the earth.
> LouIt must have been a profound experience. Nobody can take that away from you.
Posted by smokeymadison on December 4, 2004, at 2:52:53
In reply to Re: Lou's response tp Tabitha's post-nocttfebm » Lou Pilder, posted by Tabitha on December 3, 2004, at 13:32:08
one of the things i love about Buddhism is that you can experience "nirvana" (whatever that is exactly) now, in this lifetime. i sort of think that nirvana must be the realization of the the truth about everything. knowledge is so very important to me, i think that if i could possibly know and understand everything, that it would be pure bliss.
and i do realize that there are many "sects" w/in Buddhism, i think i refer more to the Theravada sect in my thinking. it has been a few years since i actually sat down and studied it, i should do that again...
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 4, 2004, at 10:07:12
In reply to Re: paradise now » Tabitha, posted by smokeymadison on December 4, 2004, at 2:52:53
sm,
You wrote,[...Buhddism...you can experiance nirvana now...].
Is this experiance one that you have had already ?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on December 4, 2004, at 11:49:07
In reply to Re: paradise now » Tabitha, posted by smokeymadison on December 4, 2004, at 2:52:53
sm,
You wrote about being able to experiance nirvana now. Some think that nirvana can be experianced in different degrees. In my study of this concept, I believe that nirvana can be experianced with no bliss state, all the way to a bliss state for long periods of time. In your past study of such, can nirvana be in different degrees?
Lou
Posted by smokeymadison on December 4, 2004, at 15:32:43
In reply to Lou's response to smokymadison-degrees of nirvana » smokeymadison, posted by Lou Pilder on December 4, 2004, at 11:49:07
i think that i have had glimpses of what nirvana could be: a clear, sort of know-all state when everything just falls into place and everything makes sense. in those moments, the physical world sort of falls away. so i think that the physical world must be an illusion, or at least there is a lot more to "reality" than meets the physical eye.
i really think meditation would help me get closer to experiencing those moments more often and to a greater degree. but for me prayer is important; it is something different. Prayer just calms my nerves and makes me feel at peace. prayer and meditation are not quite the same thing, at least for me.
Posted by gardenergirl on December 5, 2004, at 0:18:42
In reply to Re: prayer vs meditation, posted by smokeymadison on December 4, 2004, at 15:32:43
Hi smokey...I've been enjoying your posts on several boards now. I appreciate your sharing with us your path in Buddhism. It's something I want to study, but I need to finish my graduate degree before I go off in another direction. Fortunately, just one big hurdle left (the "D-word").
Thanks again,
gg
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