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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 21 to 45 of 51. Go back in thread:
Posted by rayww on March 8, 2004, at 13:56:51
In reply to Where Did my Post Go?, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 13:24:29
Maybe the Anti-Christian boogie man cast it into outer darkness. Have you ever wondered how dark dark can be? Just a question. So, here's a bit of a ramble on being cast out into outer darkness. :)
The risen Lord was witnessed by many, yet still the church does not fully comprehend the resurrection. The atonement would have no meaning were it not for the resurrection. We all will live again because of Jesus, whether we want to or not.
As is demonstrated in "The Passion", Satan wants to keep us for himself, so he spreads his lies abroad, lies that would have us believe that it does not matter if we don't keep the commandments of God. Don't believe him. Follow Jesus. Jesus is the one with the resurrected body. Satan will never even have an earthly body, will never be born, will never die, will never be resurrected. Therefore, once we pass all that, there will be no more Satan. He will be cast into outer darkness, a place where there is no light, forever. Do you know how dark dark can be? Choose light. Light is real. I can't even imagine a life without light.
rayww. btw, I liked your post, glad I was able to read it before the boogie man got it.
Posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
In reply to Where Did my Post Go?, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 13:24:29
I was absolutely wondering the same thing, Dena, and I think an explanation is required here by someone to explain why that happened, since I think it was taken down for a reason. I thought that your post was such a beautiful defense and desription of your faith and love for Jesus, and I have been checking in frequently to see what kind of response it would get. I was (and am)proud or you for that post.
So where the heck did it go?
Autumn
Posted by gabbix2 on March 8, 2004, at 15:33:56
In reply to Re: Where Did my Post Go?, posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/321062.html
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:12:25
In reply to Re: Where Did my Post Go?, posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
Dear Autumn Dawn -
Hello my friend. Thank you again for your support - I feel it way over here in Virginia!
I found the post. Even though I intentionally created it to be a "new thread" so that it wouldn't be missed, it's been relocated up to the thread where Dr. Bob asked me to rephrase. It makes logical sense that it would be there, but I thought it had been "banished". I'm glad it's been allowed to stay.
It was hard to find a way to rephrase it, without compromising either my personal faith, or the integrity of Jesus' identity. I did the best I could, & just left whether or not I'd be blocked in God's hands.
I wish I could convey how I have no intention of harming anyone else by putting down what they believe. And yet, I have to remain faithful to what God has taught me about Himself & His world, particularly through the Bible. It can be a dilemma at times. I don't have a superior attitude about my faith, as if because it's "mine" it's therefore a superior way to believe. What I believe in isn't defined by me, it's defined by God's revelation through the Bible, and especially through Jesus. Whether or not I believe it is immaterial... except for it's affect on me. God continues being God, regardless of whether or not anyone else believes in Him. I would be arrogant to think that my belief, my opinion, my personal definition, had any impact on His reality. He's gone in and out of vogue over the centuries, but He's still who He's always been.
I imagine that those who end up spending eternity with Him will all be a bit surprised about what was (& wasn't) true about Him. Myself included. I think we all have our own personal biases that may or may not be based on truth. I've had several of my own biases upended over the years - wherever God has touched one of my biases & shed His light of Truth on it, I've received deep healing. Letting go of that which I've held onto is hard, but the rewards are great!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:21:44
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dena, posted by rayww on March 8, 2004, at 13:45:33
My dear friend Rayww -
Thank you for your kindness. I'm sure you understand the dilemma I was in. Such a fine line to walk...
I'd like to "tweak" something you said: "each religion dictates who it conceives Christ, or its leader to be."
Yes, I agree that each religion determines who Christ is to them. But I still maintain that He's firm in His identity as to who He truly is. Otherwise, there are then dozens, if not hundreds, of different "Christs" - each catering to contradicting definitions.
So, while each religion may define who He is to suit their own faith principles, I believe that He remains unaltered in His nature.
I know that if my own definition limits Him in any way, I will then be able to receive Him in a limited fashion. Only when I allow Him to be fully who He is, & to be willing to meet Him on His terms, will I be able to fully receive Him.
For myself, I recognize that I have erected many barriers to fully receiving Him. I see ways in which I continue to confuse Him with my earthly father (not cognitively, but subconsciously), and even holding my earthly father's wrong-doings against Him. I see ways in which I'm holding back from fully surrendering to Him, out of old fears that He "won't be there for me" if I completely rely on Him. My adult mind recognizes the foolishness of these fears, but the barrier remains, due to childhood experiences that shaped me. I've received some healing in certain areas & have felt that freedom come through. I have hope & faith that God will continue to do more healing work in me so that I can surrender more fully to Him.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:23:13
In reply to The Thread Turned Over, posted by gabbix2 on March 8, 2004, at 15:33:56
Thanks, Gabbix.
You're more astute than I at finding lost posts! I found it up where the request to rephrase first was.
Thanks again -
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dr. Bob, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
> > Jesus ... has no equal.
> He is who He is, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
Yes, and I understand you want to be true to your faith, but the idea here is support, which IMO means not posting some aspects of some beliefs. Sorry, but I'm going to block you from posting again.
Bob
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 22:04:13
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
Oh Dena that is such a long time....16 weeks!
I am sure you will find something to do but I am sorry you are gone.
Shalom Dena
Posted by Simus on March 9, 2004, at 8:30:41
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
Dena,
I am very sorry you were blocked. If it helps, you can thank your God (oops, sorry - your generic, nebulous, non-denominational, all-inclusive, anything-goes higher power and supreme being - oops again, possibly not the most supreme being, but perhaps among the supreme beings) you live in a country with religious freedom, where you are free to talk about your beliefs without fear of punishment, imprisonment or being put to death. Uhhh... I guess that doesn't really apply here. Nevermind...
Posted by holymama on March 10, 2004, at 18:38:22
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by Simus on March 9, 2004, at 8:30:41
Oh Dena, so sorry you have been blocked. I feel like you have taken a brave stand for us all, though, much like Jesus Christ...wait a minute, does the Bible talk about a second coming of the Christ? COuld it be...Just kidding, I don't mean to demean your faith, as I have the same one. I think it is just hilarious that you were blocked for defending your faith, and I think the rules here need to be changed so that people who have faith can post on the faith board without having to pretend they don't have faith.
We'll miss you here Dena in the next 16 weeks, and I was just getting to know you. I'm sure I'll be e-mailing...
Love, Autumn
Posted by green hornet on March 18, 2004, at 14:04:50
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks, posted by holymama on March 10, 2004, at 18:38:22
> Oh Dena, so sorry you have been blocked. I feel like you have taken a brave stand for us all, though, much like Jesus Christ...wait a minute, does the Bible talk about a second coming of the Christ? COuld it be...Just kidding, I don't mean to demean your faith, as I have the same one. I think it is just hilarious that you were blocked for defending your faith, and I think the rules here need to be changed so that people who have faith can post on the faith board without having to pretend they don't have faith.
>
> We'll miss you here Dena in the next 16 weeks, and I was just getting to know you. I'm sure I'll be e-mailing...
>
> Love, AutumnDena --
Blocked for believing!!
Now there is a novel way of dealing with those who do not agree with you; or a rather "backdoor" method of "putting down" another's faith.
I came at this late and read all of the posts and STILL can't see why Dena was blocked. The lady is about the most faithful individual on this board--do you find that threatning Dr. Bob? Hummm, do I sense some prickly control issues here?! JESUS IS LORD and nothing can change that!! G. Hornet
Posted by David John on April 5, 2004, at 10:36:05
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dr. Bob, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
Dr Bob,
My first post but I have to disagree with your banning Dena for 16 weeks. I have read most of Dena's posts and IMHO I can find no evidence that she was "putting down" anyone's faith or doctrine...what she stated is fact and that is Jesus was crucified and resurrected on the third day and there is no person equal in the history of mankind.
It doesn't matter a hoot what we think... Evidence is Evidence that has be tested before we were born , you see Dr Bob it dosent take much faith to believe the promises outlined in the gospels...
If I produced the evidence presented in the gospel's to any court of our land it would be admitted for examination.
In closing Dr Bob I trust you will reconsider your ruling ASAP Thank you David John
> Dr. Bob,
> Yes, it's true that people of my faith believe that Jesus has no equal.
>
> But people of my faith also recognize that it isn't our belief that determines the characteristics of Jesus.
>
> He is who He is, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
>
> Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 5, 2004, at 10:36:05
> My first post but I have to disagree with your banning Dena for 16 weeks. I have read most of Dena's posts and IMHO I can find no evidence that she was "putting down" anyone's faith or doctrine...what she stated is fact and that is Jesus was crucified and resurrected on the third day and there is no person equal in the history of mankind.
It's great to support Dena, but IMO statements like that put down beliefs that others have no equal.
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by David John on April 8, 2004, at 9:13:53
In reply to Re: please be civil » David John, posted by Dr. Bob on April 5, 2004, at 18:30:25
Dr Bob, I would have replied sooner, however i waited for evidence that anyone really complained about Dena's statment of faith.
As far as I am concerned I would welcome people who find such posts offensive to at least tell us why they are offended...what is stopping them declaring their point of view?.
In my opinion if you relaxed your "Please be Civil" response it may stimulate discussion and be of benefit of all concerned.
The golden rule is fine but there is more to life than that.
Im not encouraging raving religous extreamists to "come out of their dens" Im simply saying allow discussion amoung members.
Its a reality that if you surpress those individual desires in people those repressed desires emerge elsewhere, and if that happens that enviorment may not have a caring or supportive persons to help them.
Thankyou for the oppotunity to express myself.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 8, 2004, at 19:50:38
In reply to Re: please be civil, posted by David John on April 8, 2004, at 9:13:53
> Dr Bob, I would have replied sooner...
I've responded, but over at PB Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040307/msgs/334281.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Toph on April 13, 2004, at 10:40:13
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 5, 2004, at 10:36:05
...it dosent take much faith to believe the promises outlined in the gospels...
David John, I puzzles me how you claim that Christian faith is so easy when Jesus' disciples lived with him, touched him, heard him speak, witnesses his miracles and ultimately betrayed him.
Posted by David John on April 14, 2004, at 11:24:07
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by Toph on April 13, 2004, at 10:40:13
> ...it dosent take much faith to believe the promises outlined in the gospels...
>
> David John, I puzzles me how you claim that Christian faith is so easy when Jesus' disciples lived with him, touched him, heard him speak, witnesses his miracles and ultimately betrayed him.>
Sorry I took so long to reply; Im unable to explain how they missed it, some thought Jesus would establish himself as a King and overthrough the Romans ...they asked dumb questions.
Peter denied knowing Jesus.The deciples couldnt stay awake prior to Jesus been betrayed by Judas...(only one deciple betrayed him)...the others seemed to be in a fog of sorts...I suppose Jesus was having some difficulity teaching the concept of faith to men and woman of the day...could be the religion of the day was and still is legalistic its very hard to "let go" and believe...what was normal during Jesus 3 years of ministery anyway. The Jewish people still deny that jesus was the messiah although today there is evidence close to %50 of rabbi's know that Jesus was the messiah...but have to remain quite about it for fear of severe repucussions.. So I suppose they are not much different to us in many ways....Nothings new
The simplistic answer Ive given is in no way enough but I personally find faith in Jesus,eternal life,and other important doctrine's easy to live with...maybe be if i were persecuted I might have a differant story?
Posted by Toph on April 15, 2004, at 12:48:48
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 14, 2004, at 11:24:07
Put in the context of the times two thouosand years ago, the wonder of Jesus was not his acts, though phenomenal, but his words. His teachings of compassion, forgiveness, charity, and devotion were dangerously radical. I envy those who actually heard his divine words.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 17, 2004, at 11:59:34
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 14, 2004, at 11:24:07
> The Jewish people still deny that jesus was the messiah
Keeping in mind that the idea here is not to post anything that could lead others to feel accused, could you please rephrase that?
If you have any questions or comments about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in suggestions regarding alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
or redirect a follow-up to Psycho-Babble Administration.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on April 17, 2004, at 12:44:47
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 14, 2004, at 11:24:07
> could be the religion of the day was and still is legalistic its very hard to "let go" and believe...
I think you should talk to some devout Jews about that statement. It doesn't reflect the full depth and range of the Jewish experience, which is marked by deep faith and belief and reverence. Consider that this is a people who has believed through countless ages of persecution, attempted forced conversions, and seggregation and persecution. Yet they continue to believe in the God of Abraham with all their hearts and minds and souls.
> The Jewish people still deny that jesus was the messiah although today there is evidence close to %50 of rabbi's know that Jesus was the messiah...but have to remain quite about it for fear of severe repucussions..
Severe repercussions? 50% Those are bold statements. Do you have the research to back it up? I think if I polled the Rabbis in my city, I would find that if one believed that Jesus was the Messiah, he wouldn't be a Jewish Rabbi, but a Christian.
I strongly suggest the book "To Life A Celebration of Jewish Being" by Rabbi Kushner for a deeper understanding of the beauty of the Jewish faith.
Posted by David John on April 20, 2004, at 8:56:04
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » David John, posted by Dr. Bob on April 17, 2004, at 11:59:34
Jewish people back 2000 years were looking for the promised Messiah, my statment"The Jewish people still deny that Jesus was the Messiah"should be rephrased " many Jewish people uphold the belief that Jesus was not the promised Messiah"
Jesus was himself a Rabbi and taught in the Temple when he was 11 years of age.
The disiples were all Jews and knew everything about the Jewish Laws.Jesus came to "fulill the law" (Matt 5:17) not to confirm,as to many suppose it to means.The Pharisee taught such a servile adherence to the letter of the law that its remarkable character,as a pointing foward to something higher than its letter, was compleately overlooked, and that its moral precepts, intented to elevate men,were made rather the instrument of contraction and debasing their ideals of morality
While it was the aim of Jesus to call men to the Law of G-d itself as the supreme guide of life, the Pharisees multiplied minute precepts and distinctions to such an extent,upon the pretence of maintaining it intact, that the whole life life of Israel was hemmed in and burdened on every side by instructions so numerous and trifling that the law was almost, if not wholly,lost sight of (Matt,12:1-13;23:23;Mark3:1-6;7:2-4 Luke 13:10-17; 18:12
It was the leading aim of the Redeemer to teach men that true piety consisted not in forms,but in substance;not to outward obvervances,but in an inward spitit; not in small details,but in great rules of life....under the Pharisiac piety led to exactly opposite conclusions.
Unfortunatly this exclusive group(about6,000 Pharisees)2,000 years ago held the nation of Israel captive, therefore Jesus was a threat to the established religion and had to be dealt with . Shalom
Posted by David John on April 20, 2004, at 9:27:59
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » David John, posted by Dinah on April 17, 2004, at 12:44:47
Dinah,Sorry if I offended you I should have rephrassed those remarks eg "could be the religion of the day was and still is legalistic its very hard to "let go" and believe" pehaps I should have said "the religion some 2,000 years ago adheared to the letter of the law to such an extent the people were afaid to challenge the Pharasees who ruled the people with an iron fist"
The other one was "The Jewish people still deny that jesus was the messiah although today there is evidence close to 50% of rabbi's know that Jesus was the messiah...but have to remain quite about it for fear of severe repucussions".Might I remind you gently that all of the 6,000 Pharesees knew that Jesus was the Messiah 2,000 years ago,I dont think they misunderstood what Jesus was teaching... today many Rabi's secretly believe what Jesus was indeed the Messiah ...my source for that was from a prominent Rabi who said " to come out today and say that would be paramount to flying a red flag at a bull" he said people are not "ready" to receive yet.
Just one thought G-D knows the beginning from the end.
Its not my job to convince anyone it is G-D'sjob
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 22, 2004, at 2:33:28
In reply to Dr Bob Rephrasing » Dr. Bob, posted by David John on April 20, 2004, at 8:56:04
Posted by Toph on April 26, 2004, at 9:27:58
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 20, 2004, at 9:27:59
...there is evidence close to 50% of rabbi's know that Jesus was the messiah...
There is no evidence of such an assertion and I challenge anyone to prove statistically the contrary (either 'know' or 'believe').
Posted by David John on April 27, 2004, at 3:49:20
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase, posted by David John on April 20, 2004, at 9:27:59
Dont be upset I wasnt there 2000 years ago nor can I understand the Rabi's intentions in saying that.
I did rephrase that thought for Dr Bob:
"Might I remind you gently that many of the 6,000 Pharesees knew that Jesus was the Messiah 2,000 years ago,I dont think they misunderstood what Jesus was teaching... "today many Rabi's secretly believe what Jesus was indeed the Messiah "...(you cant always prove these type of statments)my source for that was from a prominent Rabi who said to me " to come out today and say that would be paramount to flying a red flag at a bull he said people are not ready to receive yet".
The fact is he said that to me is admissable in any court of law ( as evidence) and therefor that Rabi could be summoned into court to be cross examined..having said that he could refuse to divulge his sources or deny he said that and prefer to pay the penality of comtempt of court
In any case the christain & the Jews still expect the Messiah to come according to the teachings...
My particular way of understanding the teachings the next coming would be the Messiahs final visit.
One last point the intellect of mankind is often at odds with absolute truths and always will be and just as many rejected the messiah in the flesh 2000 years ago (when there were no christains around) dosent surprise me at all, what's so different today, we have hundreds of belief systems and continue to argue over such minor things.
By the way Im not Jewish but love the Jewish nation and long to revisit soon.
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