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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 8:57:26
Dr. Bob -
You have asked me to rephrase this:
"Jesus has no equal."
What exactly are you asking me to do? Are you putting me in the position of choosing between denouncing who He is (the only Son of God)in order to satisfy the demands of this board, or holding to what I know to be true in order to remain on this board?
Are you asking me to sell out my faith?
Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the long-foretold Messiah of the world, who miraculously fulfilled over 400 prophesies about the Messiah. Countless others have testified as to His diety. All other religious leaders lived, died and were buried. Jesus alone lived, died and rose from the dead; more than 500 witnesses attested to the fact. How can anyone else be His equal?
I'm not saying that other faiths, other belief systems, are inequal, or inferior. Everyone is entitled to have their very own special, unique system of faith - God allows it, why should I object? No one can claim that their faith is better than someone elses, & I'm not making that claim here.
But Jesus is who He is; He is who He says He is. I'm sticking by my claim, His claim really, that He has no equal. All religions may be equally valid, as they stem from human design. But Jesus, as the only one who is 100% God while also 100% man, is truly unique. Are you asking me to lie about that, to compromise His reality?
Asking me to do that is hardly supportive of my faith. It breaches the integrity of this board.
I'm sure that you'll block me for this refusal to compromise my faith, and for my refusal to compromise the truth about Jesus Christ.
I cannot do that, and I will not do that. Regardless of the consequences, even if you block me for a year, or permanently. My allegience to Jesus must come first. I love Him too much to denounce him for any reason. He died a horrible death for me. The least I can do is to be faithful to Him.
I'm more than a little dissapointed that you would put me in this position, but I'm also grateful for the opportunity to take a stand for Him.
Posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 8:58:38
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 0:54:53
Dr. Bob -
I've replied to your request to rephrase my statement in a new thread.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 11:45:24
In reply to now from a completely different angle, posted by Jai Narayan on March 4, 2004, at 15:47:42
I just thought I might include a website for this information.
http://beaskund.helloyou.ws/netnews/bk/index.html
I think you can just copy and paste into the address: area of your computer
Is there any one else into this besides me?
I'd love to know....
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 11:50:55
In reply to Alice Bailey and Djwhal Khul, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 11:45:24
To the God,
Who is in the fire
and in the waters;To the God,
Who has suffused Himself
through all the world;
To the God Who is in summer plants
and in the lords of the forest;
To that God be adoration, adoration.Sh'vet Upanishad II,17
Jai Narayan
Posted by rayww on March 6, 2004, at 13:28:02
In reply to Re: please rephrase that » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 6, 2004, at 0:54:53
> > Jesus ... has no equal.
>
> Sorry to interrupt, but keeping in mind that the idea here is not to put down other beliefs, could you please rephrase that? Thanks,
>
> BobThe true passion of the Christ is the esteem he holds for each of us. As we are placed upon his pedestal we are elevated to meet him. We, like Jesus, are all spirit sons and daughters of God. That makes us equal to him as his brothers and sisters. He was the firstborn of the Father and shone above the rest. He has birthright and honor of being the eldest of Father's children. Others have been trying to de-throne him since that time in the Heaven of spirits. Lucifer, another son of God was one who, with his army of 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven, fought to de-throne Jesus Christ even before the earth was created. But 2/3 of the spirits of heaven, which means every single one of us, chose the plan set out by Christ of agency and accountability. Christ offered to set himself up as our advocate and volunteered to come to earth to atone (suffer and compensate) for our sins. Lucifer and his followers were cast out of heaven and denied the privilege of ever obtaining a physical body.
He came to earth to show us the way by his example. He was showing us how we should live. Are we equal to living a life of compassion and love? Then we are equal to Jesus. Can we help our neighbor? Then we are equal to Jesus. Can we show concern and feel sad when others are hurting? Can we help heal one anothers broken hearts? Then we are equal to Jesus.
So, to rephrase Dena's statement that may offend others, I would say, "Jesus has equal"
I will take dena's stripes. Block me.
Posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 16:13:59
In reply to May I make an attempt?, posted by rayww on March 6, 2004, at 13:28:02
My dear friend, Rayww,
As a true friend lays down her life for a friend, so you are willing to lay down your Psycho Babble Faith citizenship on my behalf!
I hear what you so eloquently said, in your attempt to clarify my dilemma. Thank you for that. However, I don't believe that the point was about how each of us can be "like Jesus" when we do His work here on earth, as in when we act as His hands and His feet (since those of us who follow Him are, after all, His Body).
The point I perceived was at attempt to lower Jesus from His unique status & divinity of God's only begotten Son, and to make Him into merely "one of many" of the founders of various religions and faith movements.
Jesus has no equal in that department. He didn't come to earth to establish a religion; religions are man's attempts to reach God. Jesus came here to do God's work of reaching us. Jesus is God in human flesh, coming down to our level, to reach us because we humans are innately unable to reach God on our own.
Rayww, I know that you know this, so the rest of this isn't particularly directed to you personally.
Jesus plainly told us how we are to respond to Him: in loving obedience to Him, loving God above all else, and loving our neighbors as ourselves. He told us in no uncertain terms Who He is, & how we are to follow Him. He didn't leave any room to redefine who He is, or to create another path that leads to Him. He clearly defined that path.
Anyone may choose their own path. But to speak contrary to Jesus & to still claim that their own path leads to Him isn't an option.
So, take your own path, choose your own way - you all have that freedom. But don't think that anyone can alter the reality of who Jesus is with a "new" definition of Him. He is who He is. He is God. Calling Him "one of many highly evolved Christed beings" is an insult to His nature and character.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 16:27:45
In reply to Sh'vet Upanishad II,17, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 11:50:55
Dear Jai Narayan -
This poetic verse is beautiful. I like how it describes God, as being infused in all of creation. God being transcendent through all that He's blessed us with here on earth.
I sense in you a deep hunger to know God intimately. I could be wrong, of course, but it's what I sense when I read what you shared with us.
I know the God who is infused in His creation, but my deepest longing is to know Him more intimately. It's my heart-cry.
You mentioned once that you once belonged to a church (Catholic?) & that you once believed in absolute truth.
I'm curious, how did you come to leave that faith, & to embrace what you believe in now?
I realize that you might not trust me, nor wish to share such personal information on this board. I'm not trying to set you up to get blocked, nor to try to find a way to witness to you. If you were once in a church, chances are that you already heard, or were exposed to what I believe. But maybe not. We all hear things through our own filters. Sometimes what we hear is not what was said...
I am truly curious. I want to understand your journey from where you were to where you are.
Care to share?
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 16:52:59
In reply to Re: Sh'vet Upanishad II,17 » Jai Narayan, posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 16:27:45
You are such a lovely person. I truely see your golden aura. I love seeing you on psycho babble. I hope you don't get blocked by anything you have said to me.
I am Christian as well as Sikh as well as Buddhist....I love all religions that lead to God. But when I try to define God it is an impossible task.
You are back and I celebrate your return. We have missed you.
I love responding to your posts but I fear my posts are hard for you. I am so sorry if I cause you difficutly. That is not my intention.
Peace Jai Narayan
Posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 16:56:01
In reply to Dear Sweet Dena, posted by Jai Narayan on March 6, 2004, at 16:52:59
Thank you, Jai, for your kind response.
I think I'd look good in a golden aura! I wonder if my children can see it, or if I just look like "Mom" to them? I hope no one confuses it with a halo - I couldn't keep up with that kind of pressure!
I also hope I don't get blocked, but que sera, sera.
If you ever feel like visitin me in my banishment, feel free to email: brehmites@aol.com
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 6:13:16
In reply to Dr. Bob All Others: My Refusal to Rephrase, posted by Dena on March 6, 2004, at 8:57:26
> You have asked me to rephrase this:
>
> "Jesus has no equal."
>
> What exactly are you asking me to do? Are you putting me in the position of choosing between denouncing who He is (the only Son of God)in order to satisfy the demands of this board, or holding to what I know to be true in order to remain on this board?No, I'm just asking you to word that differently.
> I'm not saying that other faiths, other belief systems, are inequal, or inferior. Everyone is entitled to have their very own special, unique system of faith - God allows it, why should I object? No one can claim that their faith is better than someone elses, & I'm not making that claim here.
OK, so how about:
> People of my faith believe that Jesus has no equal.
Which is one of the options spelled out at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7889.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 6:13:16
Dr. Bob,
Yes, it's true that people of my faith believe that Jesus has no equal.
But people of my faith also recognize that it isn't our belief that determines the characteristics of Jesus.
He is who He is, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 13:24:29
I see that my explanation as to why I couldn't in good conscience rephrase "Jesus has no equal" has disappeared.
Why is that?
Shalom, Dena
Posted by rayww on March 8, 2004, at 13:45:33
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dr. Bob, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
Well said Dena. No matter what our belief, it does not alter who Christ is, but Bob is also right in the sense that each religion dictates who it conceives Christ, or its leader to be.
Posted by rayww on March 8, 2004, at 13:56:51
In reply to Where Did my Post Go?, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 13:24:29
Maybe the Anti-Christian boogie man cast it into outer darkness. Have you ever wondered how dark dark can be? Just a question. So, here's a bit of a ramble on being cast out into outer darkness. :)
The risen Lord was witnessed by many, yet still the church does not fully comprehend the resurrection. The atonement would have no meaning were it not for the resurrection. We all will live again because of Jesus, whether we want to or not.
As is demonstrated in "The Passion", Satan wants to keep us for himself, so he spreads his lies abroad, lies that would have us believe that it does not matter if we don't keep the commandments of God. Don't believe him. Follow Jesus. Jesus is the one with the resurrected body. Satan will never even have an earthly body, will never be born, will never die, will never be resurrected. Therefore, once we pass all that, there will be no more Satan. He will be cast into outer darkness, a place where there is no light, forever. Do you know how dark dark can be? Choose light. Light is real. I can't even imagine a life without light.
rayww. btw, I liked your post, glad I was able to read it before the boogie man got it.
Posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
In reply to Where Did my Post Go?, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 13:24:29
I was absolutely wondering the same thing, Dena, and I think an explanation is required here by someone to explain why that happened, since I think it was taken down for a reason. I thought that your post was such a beautiful defense and desription of your faith and love for Jesus, and I have been checking in frequently to see what kind of response it would get. I was (and am)proud or you for that post.
So where the heck did it go?
Autumn
Posted by gabbix2 on March 8, 2004, at 15:33:56
In reply to Re: Where Did my Post Go?, posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/321062.html
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:12:25
In reply to Re: Where Did my Post Go?, posted by holymama on March 8, 2004, at 15:07:27
Dear Autumn Dawn -
Hello my friend. Thank you again for your support - I feel it way over here in Virginia!
I found the post. Even though I intentionally created it to be a "new thread" so that it wouldn't be missed, it's been relocated up to the thread where Dr. Bob asked me to rephrase. It makes logical sense that it would be there, but I thought it had been "banished". I'm glad it's been allowed to stay.
It was hard to find a way to rephrase it, without compromising either my personal faith, or the integrity of Jesus' identity. I did the best I could, & just left whether or not I'd be blocked in God's hands.
I wish I could convey how I have no intention of harming anyone else by putting down what they believe. And yet, I have to remain faithful to what God has taught me about Himself & His world, particularly through the Bible. It can be a dilemma at times. I don't have a superior attitude about my faith, as if because it's "mine" it's therefore a superior way to believe. What I believe in isn't defined by me, it's defined by God's revelation through the Bible, and especially through Jesus. Whether or not I believe it is immaterial... except for it's affect on me. God continues being God, regardless of whether or not anyone else believes in Him. I would be arrogant to think that my belief, my opinion, my personal definition, had any impact on His reality. He's gone in and out of vogue over the centuries, but He's still who He's always been.
I imagine that those who end up spending eternity with Him will all be a bit surprised about what was (& wasn't) true about Him. Myself included. I think we all have our own personal biases that may or may not be based on truth. I've had several of my own biases upended over the years - wherever God has touched one of my biases & shed His light of Truth on it, I've received deep healing. Letting go of that which I've held onto is hard, but the rewards are great!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:21:44
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dena, posted by rayww on March 8, 2004, at 13:45:33
My dear friend Rayww -
Thank you for your kindness. I'm sure you understand the dilemma I was in. Such a fine line to walk...
I'd like to "tweak" something you said: "each religion dictates who it conceives Christ, or its leader to be."
Yes, I agree that each religion determines who Christ is to them. But I still maintain that He's firm in His identity as to who He truly is. Otherwise, there are then dozens, if not hundreds, of different "Christs" - each catering to contradicting definitions.
So, while each religion may define who He is to suit their own faith principles, I believe that He remains unaltered in His nature.
I know that if my own definition limits Him in any way, I will then be able to receive Him in a limited fashion. Only when I allow Him to be fully who He is, & to be willing to meet Him on His terms, will I be able to fully receive Him.
For myself, I recognize that I have erected many barriers to fully receiving Him. I see ways in which I continue to confuse Him with my earthly father (not cognitively, but subconsciously), and even holding my earthly father's wrong-doings against Him. I see ways in which I'm holding back from fully surrendering to Him, out of old fears that He "won't be there for me" if I completely rely on Him. My adult mind recognizes the foolishness of these fears, but the barrier remains, due to childhood experiences that shaped me. I've received some healing in certain areas & have felt that freedom come through. I have hope & faith that God will continue to do more healing work in me so that I can surrender more fully to Him.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 17:23:13
In reply to The Thread Turned Over, posted by gabbix2 on March 8, 2004, at 15:33:56
Thanks, Gabbix.
You're more astute than I at finding lost posts! I found it up where the request to rephrase first was.
Thanks again -
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dr. Bob, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
> > Jesus ... has no equal.
> He is who He is, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
Yes, and I understand you want to be true to your faith, but the idea here is support, which IMO means not posting some aspects of some beliefs. Sorry, but I'm going to block you from posting again.
Bob
Posted by Jai Narayan on March 8, 2004, at 22:04:13
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
Oh Dena that is such a long time....16 weeks!
I am sure you will find something to do but I am sorry you are gone.
Shalom Dena
Posted by Simus on March 9, 2004, at 8:30:41
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dena, posted by Dr. Bob on March 8, 2004, at 21:11:18
Dena,
I am very sorry you were blocked. If it helps, you can thank your God (oops, sorry - your generic, nebulous, non-denominational, all-inclusive, anything-goes higher power and supreme being - oops again, possibly not the most supreme being, but perhaps among the supreme beings) you live in a country with religious freedom, where you are free to talk about your beliefs without fear of punishment, imprisonment or being put to death. Uhhh... I guess that doesn't really apply here. Nevermind...
Posted by holymama on March 10, 2004, at 18:38:22
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks » Dr. Bob, posted by Simus on March 9, 2004, at 8:30:41
Oh Dena, so sorry you have been blocked. I feel like you have taken a brave stand for us all, though, much like Jesus Christ...wait a minute, does the Bible talk about a second coming of the Christ? COuld it be...Just kidding, I don't mean to demean your faith, as I have the same one. I think it is just hilarious that you were blocked for defending your faith, and I think the rules here need to be changed so that people who have faith can post on the faith board without having to pretend they don't have faith.
We'll miss you here Dena in the next 16 weeks, and I was just getting to know you. I'm sure I'll be e-mailing...
Love, Autumn
Posted by green hornet on March 18, 2004, at 14:04:50
In reply to Re: blocked for 16 weeks, posted by holymama on March 10, 2004, at 18:38:22
> Oh Dena, so sorry you have been blocked. I feel like you have taken a brave stand for us all, though, much like Jesus Christ...wait a minute, does the Bible talk about a second coming of the Christ? COuld it be...Just kidding, I don't mean to demean your faith, as I have the same one. I think it is just hilarious that you were blocked for defending your faith, and I think the rules here need to be changed so that people who have faith can post on the faith board without having to pretend they don't have faith.
>
> We'll miss you here Dena in the next 16 weeks, and I was just getting to know you. I'm sure I'll be e-mailing...
>
> Love, AutumnDena --
Blocked for believing!!
Now there is a novel way of dealing with those who do not agree with you; or a rather "backdoor" method of "putting down" another's faith.
I came at this late and read all of the posts and STILL can't see why Dena was blocked. The lady is about the most faithful individual on this board--do you find that threatning Dr. Bob? Hummm, do I sense some prickly control issues here?! JESUS IS LORD and nothing can change that!! G. Hornet
Posted by David John on April 5, 2004, at 10:36:05
In reply to Re: One Way to Rephrase » Dr. Bob, posted by Dena on March 8, 2004, at 10:19:46
Dr Bob,
My first post but I have to disagree with your banning Dena for 16 weeks. I have read most of Dena's posts and IMHO I can find no evidence that she was "putting down" anyone's faith or doctrine...what she stated is fact and that is Jesus was crucified and resurrected on the third day and there is no person equal in the history of mankind.
It doesn't matter a hoot what we think... Evidence is Evidence that has be tested before we were born , you see Dr Bob it dosent take much faith to believe the promises outlined in the gospels...
If I produced the evidence presented in the gospel's to any court of our land it would be admitted for examination.
In closing Dr Bob I trust you will reconsider your ruling ASAP Thank you David John
> Dr. Bob,
> Yes, it's true that people of my faith believe that Jesus has no equal.
>
> But people of my faith also recognize that it isn't our belief that determines the characteristics of Jesus.
>
> He is who He is, regardless of what I or anyone else believes.
>
> Shalom, Dena
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