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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 13:19:51
It's good to see you posting. I haven't heard form you in a while. Did you ever propose your "free faith board for a week" to Dr. Bob? I still think you should try it. Maybe he could make a temporary board for that.
How are you?
-Miller
Posted by rayww on March 7, 2003, at 14:34:58
In reply to Hiya Rayww, posted by Miller on March 7, 2003, at 13:19:51
No, I didn't suggest having a free faith board for a week to Bob. I am reading a book right now that is teaching me how and when to write "If You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland. So if I don't write here as often - - - - - it is probably because my writing energy is being directed elsewhere.
Thanks for your warm welcome back Miller.
Posted by Dena on March 8, 2003, at 22:10:14
In reply to Re: Hiya Rayww, posted by rayww on March 7, 2003, at 14:34:58
> No, I didn't suggest having a free faith board for a week to Bob. I am reading a book right now that is teaching me how and when to write "If You Want to Write" by Brenda Ueland. So if I don't write here as often - - - - - it is probably because my writing energy is being directed elsewhere.
>
> Thanks for your warm welcome back Miller.
>
Hi Rayww -Excuse my barging in on your conversation with Miller. I checked out your link to the book, "If You Want to Write", & it sounds great. You already have a beautiful writing style, as I've seen evidenced in your posts. You're very articulate, yet warm & reachable. I can sense your presence coming through your words - I've even formed a "picture" of you in my mind's eye (it's a flattering picture!). You write from your soul. I remember reading somewhere in the archives that you've had a longing to write. I wish you great creative prosperity as you launch out into this new venture!
Shalom, Dena
Posted by rayww on March 9, 2003, at 13:16:25
In reply to Re: Hiya Rayww » rayww, posted by Dena on March 8, 2003, at 22:10:14
Thank-you Dena. Your words are very kind.
Posted by rayww on March 10, 2003, at 16:55:53
In reply to Re: Hiya Rayww » rayww, posted by Dena on March 8, 2003, at 22:10:14
In the book "If You want to write" the author mentions her favorite Russian writers. I have spent the whole afternoon reading about Leo Tolstoy, (who wrote War and Peace) thinking it was Tolstoi. Now I'm wondering, who was Tolstoi with an "i"?
Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed reading the biography of Leo Tolstoy with a "y". And now, after looking it up in the Merriam Webster Encyclopedia of Literature I find there are two Tolstoy's, plus, Tolstoi and Tolstoy are the same, so maybe I was reading about the right one after all.
He addresses questions on Christianity and faith that have plagued the minds of inquiring men through the ages. His conclusions are most interesting. How did it affect me? As with most of my posts, I delete 3/4 of them before I submit, so as not to offend anyone's belief. But, my gratitude for the belief and understanding I have has increased because of what this good man had to struggle with in his search for definitions of right and wrong.
http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tolstoy/conf1.html
Posted by Dena on March 10, 2003, at 19:59:43
In reply to Tolstoi or y, posted by rayww on March 10, 2003, at 16:55:53
How interesting, & how sad. Sad to think that the more intellectual one is, the less one thinks he/she needs faith. And yet, in my own experience, I often have to choose to sacrifice my intellectual curiosity in order to believe in those things which I can't wrap my intellect around. I find that many intellectual pursuits can be distractions for me that keep me from being content with those things which are spiritually pure, simple, true & real. I can easily become puffed up with knowledge, which can be like a drug for my mind. I can get high on my pride of my own understanding; that very pride dulls my ability to hear the "still, small voice within". I have to approach God in humility; my pride prevents me from even desiring to approach.
Shalom, Dena
P.S. rayww, thanks for sharing Tolstoi(y)'s essay.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2003, at 8:01:22
In reply to Re: Tolstoi or y » rayww, posted by Dena on March 10, 2003, at 19:59:43
I've never quite understood why God would wish us to put aside our God-given intellect in matters of faith. Especially since I've never found it necessary. Rational inquiry doesn't lessen my faith.
Of all God's gifts to us, the ability to reason is one of the greatest. Used properly it has brought immense advances to mankind. Advances that I imagine God had in mind when He gave us our intellect. Why would He wish us to put it aside in matters of faith?
Posted by Dena on March 11, 2003, at 14:08:19
In reply to Re: Tolstoi or y, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2003, at 8:01:22
Hi Dinah -
I agree with what you wrote. Let me clarify. I also believe that intelligence is a great God-given gift. You said yourself, "Used properly it has brought immense advances to mankind." But it can also be a stumbling block. The key is to use it properly. I believe that all gifts that God gives need to be used in submission to Him. If I insist on understanding an issue before I obey God, then I'm putting my own understanding above obedience. Sometimes I've found that I have to obey by faith, and then the understanding comes.
In my own life, I can get obsessed with the pursuit of greater & greater knowledge of a thing (i.e., understanding creation vs. evolution), so that I get sidetracked from the greater gifts (i.e., loving God first & loving my neighbor as myself). I think St. Paul said it best: "And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (I Corinthians 13:2)
For me also, I have to guard against thinking that my own understanding is somehow sufficient apart from God. Isaiah 5:9 says, "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts." (God speaking)
When I read the essay that Raywww referenced in her post, I found it sad that people with a high intellect can be deceived into thinking that they don't need God any more. I always find it sad when people lose faith & walk away from their relationship with God.
I know that God gave me my intelligence. I also know that at times He asks me to put my reliance in my intelligence aside & to trust Him, even when what He wants from me doesn't appear to make logical sense. He also gave me the gift of enjoying food, but when I abuse it, I suffer the consequences.
Posted by noa on April 10, 2003, at 19:34:33
In reply to Re: Tolstoi or y » rayww, posted by Dena on March 10, 2003, at 19:59:43
I know I'm coming to this discussion late, but I think it also helps to think about that dilemma of Tolstoy's in the context of his historical time. There is perhaps alwasy a tension between faith and intellect (trusting through faith or needing proof through science) but it was especially acute during his time, I think, in part due to the power of the church and the attempt to break away from that power through the intellectual pursuits of the Enlightenment. I think that nowadays, there is far more tolerance of the idea that faith and intellectual pursuits can be very compatible. But perhaps that tension between "I believe even though I cannot see" and "seeing is believing" is just inherent to the question of faith.
This is the end of the thread.
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