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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 3 of 3. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:01:42
Jonathan - I'd like to defer to you and your more mature understanding of Eastern Orthodoxy, to perhaps better explain what is meant by "Orthodoxy". Lou has asked me to clarify what I meant by "Orthodoxy". I did my best to define, but I'm sure I gave a less than complete answer. Could you review the posts & reply to Lou, so that he, & the rest of us who may be interested, can better understand? Thanks!
Re: Lou's response to Dena's post » Lou Pilder
shalom, Dena
Posted by Jonathan on March 6, 2003, at 2:52:00
In reply to Deferring to Jonathan's Wisdom, posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:01:42
Welcome back, Dena :)
I don't think wisdom is the right word, in view of what happened to the other thread because of my contribution! I'm *so* sorry that my attempt at humour (the post entitled "Correction" and the last sentence of the previous post) unexpectedly proved to be so controversial. I'm glad that you inferred, correctly, that my intention was only to amuse you and to cause offence to no-one.
I feel very guilty because I wasn't here to respond to the questions which Lou has raised. Thank you for answering so many of them in my absence, and with such wisdom, sensitivity and patience. I feel that you have already dealt with much more than your fair share and hope you will feel able to leave the remainder to me. I shall try to reply to every relevant point that Lou has raised (a task which you have made very much easier for me), but almost certainly more slowly than you would have done; it is not, of course, considered uncivil to spend less time on a thread than the person whose posts one is answering. Lou has made some interesting comments which deserve a considered answer and will receive one, but a dialogue cannot be forced to proceed faster than the participant who has the least time to contribute.
Everything you have said is so clearly expressed that in most cases I can answer Lou's questions about it on your behalf, as you have been doing for me, without risk of misrepresenting your views. I'll let you know if I need further input from you about anything you said; unless you hear otherwise from me, please assume that you are now free from any obligation you may have felt to contribute more to the thread (though, of course, if you choose to say more, you're welcome to do so).
> The One I believe in & follow has some rather exclusionary things to say... perhaps you've found a way to stay true to your faith & yet not offend others. Perhaps I can learn from you.
You've been faring so well on your own that I doubt if you have anything to learn from me. However, because it can be hard to stay true to your faith without saying something that might cause you to be blocked again, I'm concerned that this might happen if you continue to defend my puerile joke as you have. You've already given it much more of your time than it merits, and it's just not worth either the time or the risk for something so trivial. Another thing to consider is that I have never been blocked or cautioned in nearly three years of posting, so I should probably get away with just a warning for a first offence, while you would be blocked for two weeks for saying exactly the same thing.
I've just read your post to Lou in which you explain what is meant by "Orthodoxy". I think it's an excellent explanation, and an example of the way I hoped this thread would develop. I shall, of course, read carefully through all Lou's posts and add to it anything which he seems to require, or which I think should be added, as you requested, along with trying to answer his other concerns. While I don't intend to do this any more slowly than I respond to other posters, like you for example, I don't believe that either Lou or the PB Faith community will be harmed if he receives my replies at my pace rather than yours.
Another reason why I'd be happier if you left these replies to me is because you have so much to say about other matters which I find much more interesting. You are fortunate to be led on your journey toward the roots of the Church by such a remarkable priest, and accompanied by the brave few "embracers" in the congregation. This happens so rarely that I had just assumed, after reading your "family and belief" post to Rayww, that you must have made a personal choice to leave your previous Protestant church and join an already-established Orthodox church. Your true story is even more fascinating.
As I told you, my interest in Orthodoxy was also inspired by a Protestant priest, at university; he is still a priest in the Church of England and always will be, though his faith and life have been greatly enriched by his interest in Orthodoxy, as have mine. The end of your journey will be far from your nondenominational Protestant starting point; it will not be identical to any modern Orthodox church, though it will be closer to Orthodoxy than to other denominations.
One difference I've noticed from your most recent post is that yesterday was Ash Wednesday for you, as it was for the Church of England and all western churches; presumably you will celebrate Easter on 20th April. The Eastern Orthodox churches begin Great Lent next Monday, and their Easter this year will be on 27th April. Assuming that the earlier date will be Easter for most of your families and friends, it makes sense to do likewise unless there is some compelling doctrinal reason for preferring the Orthodox date. My wife and I are looking forward to Easter next year, which will be on the same day, 11th April, for us both!
I must apologize again for causing you to expend so much of your time on my silly attempt at humour, and thank you again for defending it on my behalf until I was able to take over. I hope this unfortunate incident has not deterred you from staying; you have so much to contribute.
Shalom, Jonathan.
Posted by Dena on March 6, 2003, at 7:59:23
In reply to Re: Deferring to Jonathan's Wisdom » Dena, posted by Jonathan on March 6, 2003, at 2:52:00
Jonathan! I can't express how glad I am to have read your post! Thank you, thank you, thank you, for all you so eloquently said, & I'll be more than happy to let you take over the responses to Lou's questions re. our previous interchange re. purgatory. It was becoming a bit of a burden to me, & I've been feeling rather overwhelmed. I'll look forward to reading your posts, as I expect to learn a great deal.
I'm amazed that you've been posting for three years & yet have never been blocked! It just took me a week! I fear that has something to say about my own brashness, & an apparent insensitivity to others that I find grievous. This Lent, my prayer focus is for the Lord to impart to me a love & a focus, first of all to Him, then secondly to others, leaving myself last. Only He can do this in me; I'm naturally a very self-focused person (perhaps that's one of the reasons why He's blessed me with 7 children -a bit of a crash-course in other-focus!).
I found your post to be very encouraging & supportive. The sense of rapport & comeraderie I felt while reading it is refreshing. I was consisdering leaving this board, fearing that I couldn't continue to post without either compromising my faith or offending others. For now, I'll stay, but I've asked the Lord to let me know His will on this issue. Perhaps your own post was part of His answer for me.
you wrote: >Another reason why I'd be happier if you left these replies to me is because you have so much to say about other matters which I find much more interesting. You are fortunate to be led on your journey toward the roots of the Church by such a remarkable priest, and accompanied by the brave few "embracers" in the congregation. This happens so rarely that I had just assumed, after reading your "family and belief" post to Rayww, that you must have made a personal choice to leave your previous Protestant church and join an already-established Orthodox church. Your true story is even more fascinating.
This is indeed a very fascinating journey for me & the other "embracers". We're all moving along at various paces, learning as we go, knowing only that our journey is leading us closer to the heart of Jesus. Where we'll "end up" is known only to Him. While I'm thoroughly enjoying reading book after book & absorbing knowledge, my stronger desire is that my heart will be blessed with a deeper intimacy with my Lord. I want to know Him in fullness & Truth, unhindered by my own opinions, fears & doubts, & biases. Again, only He can bring about this transformation within me. I'm finding that the Jesus Prayer is an aid for this transformation, allowing me to cooperate with His plan for me.
If you want to learn a bit more about our journey from various denominations back to the roots of Christianity, our church's name is the International Communion of the Charismatic Episcopal Church (CEC for short). International in the sense of fulfilling the Great Commission; Communion in the sense of being One Body; Charismatic in the sense of being open to the Gifts of the Spirit released at Pentacost; Episcopal in the sense of being governed by Bishops, & under Apostolic Succession. So, we're embracing the fullness of the "three streams" of Christianity: We're evangelical, liturgical & charismatic. All of us who have come into the CEC have learned to embrace other streams which were previously unfamiliar to us. For me, the liturgical stream was new to me. But embracing it has greatly enriched my faith, deepening my beliefs & connecting me to the ancient Church Fathers, thus to Jesus Himself. Anyway, if you're interested, you can check out the webpage of the Charismatic Episcopal Church. I'd be very appreciative of any sites you've found to be helpful for a new ancient truth-seeker such as myself.
Thanks again for your support.
Shalom, Dena
This is the end of the thread.
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