![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 37. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Miller on February 15, 2003, at 22:53:21
Yes!!!
I am struggling with Faith due to my low self esteem and uncontrolable negativity. It is almost breaking my heart that I can't get my life together to be the person I want to be. I want to be able to give. I want to have a strong and healthy Faith in God and Jesus.
Unfortunately, I am also having a problem with stabilizing my emotions and depression.
I am glad to hear that there may be hope for me. You seem to be in a place I am striving to get to. Was there a turning point to get there, or was is a slow and deliberate struggle?
Thank you for posting. I look forward to your reply.
-Miller
Posted by Miller on February 21, 2003, at 6:54:20
In reply to Dena, posted by Miller on February 15, 2003, at 22:53:21
...extending yourhand in welcome only to have it ignored. :(
-M
Posted by Dena on February 22, 2003, at 18:38:02
In reply to Nothing hurts more than..., posted by Miller on February 21, 2003, at 6:54:20
> ...extending yourhand in welcome only to have it ignored. :(
>
> -MI am so sorry! I've been sick with some sort of nasty virus - I've been in bed for the past five days! Please forgive me - for some reason I thought I'd be notified via email when someone responded to me - I didn't realize that I had to check back on the Psychobabble site! Please forgive my ignorance. I hope no one else has gotten bit by this virus - my whole family has been out of it (it's no fun being the mama of 7 children when both you and the children are sick!) I couldn't even concentrate well enough to pray or read. Just laid there feeling oh-so-sorry for myself! Yuck! Self-pity is the worst!
Posted by Dena on February 22, 2003, at 19:14:15
In reply to Dena, posted by Miller on February 15, 2003, at 22:53:21
> Yes!!!
>
> I am struggling with Faith due to my low self esteem and uncontrolable negativity. It is almost breaking my heart that I can't get my life together to be the person I want to be. I want to be able to give. I want to have a strong and healthy Faith in God and Jesus.
>
> Unfortunately, I am also having a problem with stabilizing my emotions and depression.
>
> I am glad to hear that there may be hope for me. You seem to be in a place I am striving to get to. Was there a turning point to get there, or was is a slow and deliberate struggle?
>
> Thank you for posting. I look forward to your reply.
>
> -Miller
Hello Miller. Hopefully by now you'll have read why I didn't respond before. Hopefully you've also forgiven me.I do understand about low self-esteem & negativity. They've plagued me for as long as I've had awareness. I seem to have come by my "demons" through inheritance - I can trace depression & negativity back down through the generations of my family tree. I've come to understand it as a kind of curse. And, curses can be overcome with blessings (literally).
It helps me to know that many of the Biblical "heros" of the faith were also plagued by depression. Half of the psalms were written by King David, a man who had plenty to be depressed about. His depression drove him right into the arms of God, where he dumped his heart out, sparing no details. It seems that God took his pain & sorrow & gave him comfort, because the psalms always end with David praising God & having his hope renewed. When I've taken this as my model, when I manage to take my pain to God (rather than drawing up in a ball & indulging in self-pity, which is my temptation), I also end up with comfort & hope.
But self-pity is so seductive! It's like twisted pride. "If I can't be the best - like I secretly thought I was - then I'm going to be the worst! I'm so bad that even God can't help me! I'm worse off than anyone I know... why should I care about anyone else, when I'm worse than they are?" & then I cut myself off from fellowship with God, because I'm indulging in twisted pride, & I'm declaring one of his masterpieces (me!) to be deplorable.
My heart's cry lately is this: "God, I want to know You as You are, in Truth. Jesus, enable me to love first You, others & myself with Your love. Have your way with me."
Here's a book that's speaking to me: "The Way of a Pilgrim". It teaches about the Jesus Prayer, which is a way to pray without ceasing.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Jonathan on March 3, 2003, at 5:08:29
In reply to Re: Dena » Miller, posted by Dena on February 22, 2003, at 19:14:15
> ...
> Here's a book that's speaking to me: "The Way of a Pilgrim". It teaches about the Jesus Prayer, which is a way to pray without ceasing.
>
> Shalom, DenaDena,
As you say in the previous thread, you are indeed blessed to have an Orthodox Christian mother-in-law to learn from. I am blessed with an Orthodox wife but, sadly, my Orthodox MIL-to-be died nearly two years before our wedding: I met her but once and her father, a distinguished Orthodox theologian and philosopher, never.
My interest in Orthodox spirituality began at university, long before I met my wife and her family. The Dean and Chaplain of my college, an Anglican like myself with a strong interest in the rich diversity of beliefs and practices available to Christians, first introduced me to the Jesus Prayer and I subsequently read "The Way of a Pilgrim (Savin)" and "School for Prayer" (now re-published as "Beginning to Pray") and "Living Prayer by Metropolitan Anthony" — see also http://www.metropolit-anthony.orc.ru/eng/ ; "Living Prayer" is still my favourite book about prayer. You can read the short chapter about the Jesus Prayer online at
http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/Jprayer.html .
I'm surprised Dr. Bob didn't clobber you when you mentioned "The Way of a Pilgrim" with a reminder about using double-double quotes to create links to Amazon (see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon ) Savin's is my favourite translation, but there are at least two others available — "The Way of a Pilgrim (Bacovcin)" and "The Way of a Pilgrim (French)". You can read the first few pages of each on Amazon's site. A longer excerpt from French's translation, which describes the Jesus Prayer, can be found at
http://landru.i-link-2.net/shnyves/Prayer_without_Ceasing.html .
I hope this is helpful to anyone interested in learning more about the Jesus Prayer. With repeated practice, it soon becomes a comforting habit which you can call on whenever you feel the need to strengthen your faith.
I'm looking forward to your return from Purgatory, Dena.
Jonathan.
Posted by Jonathan on March 4, 2003, at 3:22:08
In reply to More about the Jesus Prayer » Dena, posted by Jonathan on March 3, 2003, at 5:08:29
I wrote:
> I'm looking forward to your return from Purgatory, Dena.
My wife and spiritual mentor, She Who Must Be Obeyed, has just reminded me that, wherever Dr. Bob banished you to a week ago, it could not have been Purgatory: Orthodox Christians believe (without, of course, being disrespectful or unsupportive towards those who believe otherwise) that the dogma of Purgatory is simply an ancient Greek myth adopted without scriptural justification by the Roman Church long after the Great Schism of 1054, and anathematized by the Council convened in Constantinople by Patriarch Jeremias in 1583. Please forgive my doctrinal error.
I'm still looking forward to your return, though :)
Jonathan.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2003, at 10:28:01
In reply to Correction » Dena, posted by Jonathan on March 4, 2003, at 3:22:08
Jonathan,
You wrote,[...Orthodox christians believe that the dogma of purgatory was adopted by the Roman church, {without scriptural justification}...please forgive my doctrinal error...].
Could you clarify what you are refering to when you used [orthodox] in {orthodox christians}?
If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post.
Could you clarify what you are referring to when you wrote,[...adopted by the Roman church{without (scriptural} justification}...]? If you could, then I could reply accordingly.
Could you clarify why you wrote,[...please excuse my {doctrinal error}]? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post and be better able to reply accordingly.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 4, 2003, at 20:52:52
In reply to More about the Jesus Prayer » Dena, posted by Jonathan on March 3, 2003, at 5:08:29
Jonathan -
Thanks so much for your post. I was uncertain whether or not I would return to this board after my banishment. I'm still not certain I can post without further grounds for exile. The One I believe in & follow has some rather exclusionary things to say... perhaps you've found a way to stay true to your faith & yet not offend others. Perhaps I can learn from you.
Speaking of learning from others, my Orthodox MIL hasn't taught me much. She's rather nominal in her faith - her life is rather compartmentalized - she rarely, if ever, attends church anymore. My interest in the ancient Church was piqued by my priest & his wife - my close friends & mentors. They made their own journey from nondenominational Protestantism to the roots of the Church - when there was One church, undivided. It was a radical move, shunned by many & embraced by few. I'm one of the embracers. I'm rediscovering what has been lost, first with the Great Schism, and then with the Reformation. The revelations come almost daily, & I'm reading as voraciously as I can, given I still have my seven children to raise & educate (plus the home to maintain). I'm hungry for the fullness of His Truth.
> I'm surprised Dr. Bob didn't clobber you when you mentioned "The Way of a Pilgrim" with a reminder about using double-double quotes to create links to Amazon (see http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon )
Yes, my ignorance is again showing! I just jumped into this board without figuring out how everything was supposed to work. I tend to learn things the hard way.
I especially enjoyed your follow-up to your last post, where you apologized for referring to purgartory! Coming from my previously-Protestant background, I had my own issues with the idea. I appreciate the mini-history lesson!
Again, thanks for the post - I think I'll hang out a while longer on this board.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2003, at 21:04:52
In reply to Re: More about the Jesus Prayer » Jonathan, posted by Dena on March 4, 2003, at 20:52:52
Dena,
You wrote, [...I enjoyed your post where you {apologised} for referring to purgatory...].
Could you clarify why you had [enjoyment] because the other poster {apologised} for referring to purgatory? If you could, then I could {rule out}, possibly, any [putting down of another's faith] that could be inferred by your statement.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 4, 2003, at 22:23:15
In reply to Lou's response to Dena's post » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2003, at 21:04:52
Hi Lou - it's really nice to be corresponding with you again.
In order to understand what I meant about enjoying Jonathan's apology for referring to purgatory, you'll have to read Jonathan's two previous posts to me. In the first one, he signed off saying, "I'm looking forward to your return from Purgatory, Dena." - he was relating my being blocked with a Roman Catholic belief of going to a place of purification after death, prior to gaining access to heaven. In his next post to me, he "apologized" for referring to purgatory, because he'd "forgotten" that Orthodox Christians don't believe in purgatory as do Roman Catholics. This difference in belief is one I've only recently come to understand, & so I found humor in his "slip". I meant no offense to Jonathan, Orthodoxy, Roman Catholocism, nor to anyone else on this board.
Thanks for checking with me for clarification.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2003, at 23:01:17
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Dena's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 4, 2003, at 22:23:15
Dena,
I have examined the posts that you were refering to and find that between the two posts , Jonathan makes a referrence to pugatory as a [false doctrine]. Then you wrote that [...{orthodox} christians do not believe in purgatory as Roman Catholics...].
I feel that I need to know what you mean by [orthodox] in order to have a better understanding of your reply. Could you define how you referr to[orthodox]in this topic? If you could, then I could have a beter understanding of your post, because I grew up in an {orthodox} jewish home and , perhaps, your explanation of what you mean by {orthodox} could put more light on this topic since I may have a differant understanding of what orthodox means. Also, some jewish people, and Hindu people, and others offer prayers for the dead which has been associated in some respects to the [doctrine] of purgatory that you have referred to.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 9:41:19
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Dena's post » Lou Pilder, posted by Dena on March 4, 2003, at 22:23:15
Jonathan and Dena,
I have reread the posts in this thread and feel that there is a potential for one that beleives in purgatory, to feel put down by what you have posted here in this thread.
Jonathan has written,[..the dogma of purgatory is...a Greek {myth} adopted without [scriptural justification] by the Roman Church...and {anathematised} by...Jeremias in 1583...please forgive my {doctrinal error}...]
Dena wrote, [...Orthodox christians do not believe in purgatory as Roman Catholics...]. Now Jonathan {apologized} to Dena for his referrence to purgatory to her as a doctrinal {error}.
Now it is my understanding that when something is [anathematised], that those that anathematise, are (cursing) it. And also,that those that believe it are to be cursed. So what causes my concern about these posts of yours is that they have the potential to arrouse feelings in me ,and others, for I am jewish, as to what you have written here. The following are my concers that I feel .
1).I feel that there ia a potential for one to believe that you are saying that the doctrine of purgatory is not found in {scripture} and that, possibly, the jewish scriptures, such as the books of the Maccabians,which lend themselves to giving credence to the doctrine of purgatory, are not part of the {scriptures} that you are referring to.
2). I feel that there is the potential for those that do belive in the doctrine of purgatory to feel that you are writng that they are to be {cursed} for their beliefe.
3).I feel that there is a potential for one to believe that you are saying that the Roman Church scriptures, that include the jewish writings called the Maccabeians, are not to be included in {scripture} which gives the potential that you are saying that those books that are in my jewish scriptures are considerd to be false by you since you wrote that purgatory is a [...doctrinal error...] which gives me the potential to make me feel that the doctrine of purgatory is a [false] doctrine.
4).I feel that you that there is the potential for some to beleive that you are makeing a conclusion that [...the dogma of purgatory is a Greek myth...] and this causes me to feel that my jewdaism that respects a concept of purgatory is being put down since purgatory concepts are considered by some jewish people, and others, to be included in the jewish scriptures.
5). I feel that what you are saying has the potential for one to believe that the jewish people, and others, that believe in a concept of purgatory are to be cursed.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 9:54:47
In reply to Re: Lou's response to Dena's post-2 » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 4, 2003, at 23:01:17
Good Morning, Lou!
You asked me to clarify what I meant by Orthodox. I'm a relative novice at understanding Christian church history, so I may need to defer to Jonathan, who seems to be further down the road of understanding than me. However, to the best of my own understanding at this point, "Orthodox", in a Christian context, refers to the original Christian faith passed on from Jesus Christ to His Apostles, who passed it on to their disciples (or students), and so on and so on for centuries. After one thousand years of Christianity being One Church, there was the Great Schism between the churches of the East & the churches of the West (primarily Rome). (to understand the Great Schism, you will have to ask someone far more knowledgeable than me to explain it to you - I'm still learning about it myself.) Historically then, the churches of the west (under Rome) became known as Roman Catholic, while the churches of the East became known as Eastern Orthodox, or sometimes Orthodox, for short. In spite of the differences that account for the Great Schism, the two ancient branches of Christianity have much more in common than in division. As concerning purgatory, the Western Church (Roman Catholic) embraced the doctrine of purgatory after the Great Schism; Eastern Orthodoxy has never embraced it.
It's very difficult to put centuries of history into a "nutshell", as I'm attempting to do here. I suggest that you perhaps contact Jonathan if you have any other questions concerning Eastern Orthodoxy. I don't want to do the Church a disservice by explaining out of my relatively naive understanding.
I hope this helps somewhat.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
In reply to Lou's response to Jon and Dena's post » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 9:41:19
Whew! I feel like I've just been slapped around! I must say that this type of thinking, Lou, really bothers me. It seems that you're very intent on finding something to be offended about. I can assure you from my position that no offense was intended in any way whatsoever. Jonathan can speak for himself, but I detected no such malice or offense in reading his posts.
He simply stated the historical perspective of two branches of Christianity. These are recorded facts, accessible to anyone. Neither he nor I made any statement of opinion regarding any group of believers, or any faith. We all come from different religious backgrounds. We all have various beliefs. Some of these different beliefs are in direct opposition to the beliefs of others. Are we supposed to pretend otherwise? Are we supposed to remain mute about what we believe, or what our different faiths teach? For me to deny what I believe out of fear of possibly offending someone, would make me become unfaithful to what I believe. Stating what we believe, stating what our various churches hold as doctrine, is simply free speach. When others state what they believe & what their particular church hold to be true, I have the CHOICE to be offended or not. I can either read what they wrote & think, "How interesting. I've learned something about someone else." or I can think, "What do they mean by that? Are they attacking me? Are they putting me down?" I have read countless statements on this board which are in direct opposition to what I believe, & in direct contradiction to what Jesus taught in the Bible (my own standard of belief). I have read many statements which belittle, ridicule or otherwise insult Jesus, the One I follow. I chose to pray for those who insulted Him rather than to retaliate or take it personally. Can't the rest of you simply take what you want from what you read & "throw the rest away"? I think we all, as adults, know the difference between making a statement & attacking another person.
I spent my time in "exile" thinking about what I'd previously posted & how it might have been insensitive to the beliefs of others. I spent some time praying about it. I concluded that I must be faithful to what truths have been revealed to me through the Bible, the Church, & the Holy Spirit, but that I must relate to all others in love. As a fallible human being, this is easier said than done, but I trust that God will guide & teach me. Mistakes will be made by all of us from time to time. Tolerance for all beliefs must include tolerance toward those who are Christians. Perhaps when each of us feels the stirring of offense, that would be a great opportunity for us to practice one of the highest of all virtues: forgiveness.
If what Jonathan & I posted to each other re. purgatory is considered offensive & therefore must be censored, then this message board is not the place for me. What good is a message board like this is everyone must walk on egg shells to be sure to only say things which are universally acceptable?
We are all different. Our beliefs are all different. Why not learn from each other rather than looking for ways to be offended?
Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 12:11:15
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
The rule of this forum is that if the beliefe [puts down other beliefes], then it is not OK.
To say the you do not believe in the doctrine of purgatory could be OK hear,IMO, but to say that the doctrine, lets say, of purgatory is [...not substantiated by scripture,] or a [...doctrinal error...] or anathemized, which is cursed, or declared to be evil (which is another definition of anathemized),or a myth, or to write anything that has the potential for others to believe that what they believe is false, is , IMO, against the rules of this board.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 13:53:15
In reply to Re: To Lou anyone else who may feel offended... » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 12:11:15
> Dena,
> The rule of this forum is that if the beliefe [puts down other beliefes], then it is not OK.
> To say the you do not believe in the doctrine of purgatory could be OK hear,IMO, but to say that the doctrine, lets say, of purgatory is [...not substantiated by scripture,] or a [...doctrinal error...] or anathemized, which is cursed, or declared to be evil (which is another definition of anathemized),or a myth, or to write anything that has the potential for others to believe that what they believe is false, is , IMO, against the rules of this board.
> LouWith all due respect, Lou, perhaps you should be addressing Jonathan, who made the statements you just referred to. I merely found humor in his tongue-in-cheek approach to the differences in Eastern & Western Christian theology.
Shalom, Dena
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 16:32:56
In reply to Re: To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 13:53:15
Dena,
You wrote,[...perhaps you should be addressing Jonathan...I mearly found humor in his...].
Well, I did address the post to Jonathan and you and I identified what he wrote and what you wrote so that there could be a separation of what each of you wrote, so that no one could inferr that you wrote what Jonathan wrote, or that Jonathan wrote what you wrote, and I feel that the discussion involved the three of us, not just me and Jonathan so I addressed it to both so that each could respond.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 16:45:52
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...is seems that you are intent on finding something to be offended about...].
Well, if you are making a conclusion, then I would like for you to know that your conclusion,if you are making one that I am intent on finding something to be offended about, is a false conclusion because my intent in these discussions here is not because I want to find something to be offended about, and if you could cite a post that make it seem that way to you, then I could respond accordingly .
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 17:31:17
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...I detected no malice or offense in Jonathan's post...].
Are you saying that I am saying that Jonathan's post has malice or offense in it? If so, could you give me the passage that you think indicates that ? If there is one, then I could respond accordingly for the issue of its content deals with [putting down another's belief] by writing such statements as ,[..the orthodox church calls the doctrine of purgatory a {myth} and is a doctrinal error, and is anathematized by the church, and such...] which is [uncivil] by the written code here, because it is OK,IMO, to say that you do not believe in purgatory, but not OK ,IMO, to tell others that their biliefe in purgatory is incorrect, or has no doctrinal support. To make a conlusion that there is no doctrinal support is argumentative and I could, if asked, give a tremendous volume of doctrinal support for the doctrine of purgatory. Uncivil is not malicious, and {offense} is in the eye of the one considering something to be offensive or not, for some could consider the post's content offensive and others could not.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 17:45:33
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...niether he nor I made any statement of opinion regarding any group of belivers or faith...].
Are you saying that his referrence to purgatory being a [doctrinal error] is not a statement of opinion regarding those that consider purgatory doctrine to be {not} in error? If so, then could you clarify how that is [not] a statenent of opinion regarding other faiths since some Hindus believe that they can pray for the dead , some jews belive that they can pray for the dead, Roman Catholic people believe in purgatory and others believe in purgatory also? If you could, then I could have a better understanding of your post.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 17:58:13
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...stateing ...our doctrine...is {free speech}....].
Well, are you saying that [all] speech is OK here? If so, could a person that belonged to a supremist group post here that their group is the [master race]?
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 18:08:47
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...when others state what they or their church believes to be true , I have the {choice} to be offended or not...].
Are you saying that since you have that choice that all others here also have that choice to be offended or not?
I can only speak for myself, and I do not have a choice when it comes to being offended or not. When someone offends me, I am offended. I can not just walk away and expect myself to be not offended.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 18:25:51
In reply to To Lou anyone else who may feel offended..., posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 10:35:12
Dena,
You wrote,[...me and Jonathan wrote to each other that purgatory is offensive and must be censored...].
Whether offensive statements about purgatory could be posted has a parallel here.
A poster used ant-Semitic language in his/her post here. Dr. Bob wanted to excuse it on spacific grounds. But there was an outrage of protest here about the use of raciest language and Dr. Bob ruled that posts could be made using non-racist language and that if the poster needed to use that type of language that he/she could do it in another milliue, in that case, therapy.
Now it is my opinion that your post could also be in that catagory. The idea here is to not post anything that could have the potential to put down others and to be sensitive to other's feelings. There are others here that regard purgatory as part of their cherished beliefes and could get the idea that you are not being sensitive to their feelings in posting that purgatory is a myth or doctrinal error, etc., etc.
So ,IIMO, in general, that type of post could be posted elseware so as to not arrouse the potential for others to feel put down. I feel that personal communication does not shelter uncivilness here.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 19:07:56
In reply to Lou's reply to Dena's post-6K » Dena, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 18:25:51
Dena,
You wrote that [...me and Jonathan wrote to each other that purgatory is offensive and must be censored...].
I wrote that [...others here could regard purgatory as part of their cherished beliefs and could get the idea that you are not sensitive to their beliefs by writing..xxx....]. The note that I would like to make is that although you were haveing a conversation with Jonathan, and did not object to what was written by him, it was he that wrote [...{doctrinal error},myth, etc., etc.,...]in regards to the doctrine of purgatory. However, you are also writing that this should be allowed to be posted here on , at least, the grounds of free speech and that it is your belief, and it could appear that you , as well as Jonathan, are attempting to ligitamize what Jonathan wrote here as to that.
Lou
Posted by Dena on March 5, 2003, at 21:39:57
In reply to Lou's (note) reply to Dena's post-6K-b » Lou Pilder, posted by Lou Pilder on March 5, 2003, at 19:07:56
Lou, I don't believe it's possible for me to communicate with you when you require a detailed explanation of whatever it is I post. You've basically made a mountain out of a molehill.
In answer to one of your many questions, yes, each person has the ability to choose to take offense or to let things go. Otherwise we cause ourselves to be victims of everyone else. It grieved me deeply to read of derogatory comments made about Jesus Christ, but I chose to not take personal offense from the comments. I would wish the same of you. Especially when no offense was intended.
I don't know what your goal is with this thread. Are you trying to provoke me into writing something that would get me blocked again? Are you trying to get me to say something negative about others' beliefs regarding purgatory? (for the record, I was raised in a Protestant church that taught against purgatory. I'm now embracing the historic roots of Christianity, & I'm learning about many things I previously didn't believe in, such as purgatory. I'm exploring this particular doctrine with an open mind, & have yet to come to any particular conclusion.)
I would like for Dr. Bob to intervene at this point, for him to read the previous postings & determine for himself whether or not what Jonathan & I wrote is worthy of blocking.
I see no point in you and I belaboring this issue between ourselves.
Dena
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