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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 8 to 32 of 32. Go back in thread:
Posted by rayww on January 1, 2003, at 3:29:51
In reply to Re: empower » rayww, posted by Dinah on December 31, 2002, at 21:42:03
You have asked some good questions, and since I'm sitting down here anyway at 2:00 am, wishing you a happy new year in my sleep........
> Do you find posting to Babble to be draining to you that you need extra help? Or is it the time involved?
Don't ask me to sit down at my computer because I might not get back up again for a long time. No, I don't find being here draining. I'm not sure you understood the extra help I was meaning, and I wouldn't be able to explain it here. This *is* the babble place, right?
> So discovering your illness made you question the reality of your faith as well as your personality? Part of my illness, or maybe part of my ego structure, depending on how you look at it, is that I have no real idea of who I am. Each day seems to stand on its own. I don't have a continuous sense of myself as a human being. Yet others seem to see me as being consistently me.
By just stating what you did, it shows you do know quite a lot about yourself. Establishing personal values sometimes takes a lifetime to work out. Our values determine who we are, because just as we are what we eat, we are also what we do. When we swing from one end of the value spectrum to the other, how can we possibly know who we really are? It's tough. Even though I have faith that with each adversity comes also an escape, there are certain things I cling to in order to not fall off the swing.
> So I don't question overly much if my illness has shaped who I am since I don't really know who I am. But I would think that it does, just as your experiences shape who you are. It doesn't make it any less you. Were you able to talk to your bishop about any of your confusion when you were diagnosed?
No, but my Dr. was another bishop and I really liked his way of combining spiritual understanding with therapy. He taught me a lot of concepts that made me feel better about myself.
My pastor isn't really someone that I can see myself confiding in, unfortunately. I wrestle with faith issues on my own mainly. Although I haven't wrestled much in recent years.
>There's someone for everyone. The disorders take the fight out of you.
> I do think I remember reading that you felt less spiritual while on meds? Was that part of your decision to discontinue them?A very small part.
>
> I'm not sure I understand that definition of the word "agency". I remember agency as being related to free will. Have I remembered that one incorrectly?
>Agency is a big word. We are taught correct principles, then we govern ourselves. Agency has responsibility and consequenses. The opposite of agency is force. Remember the story?ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd oops, just fell asleep. happy New Year.
Posted by Dinah on January 1, 2003, at 5:05:14
In reply to Re: empower, posted by rayww on January 1, 2003, at 3:29:51
Happy New Year to you too. And see, I'm trying to make the Faith board work for me.
I think I remember the story. The one about the pre-existence. Satan wanting to force people to be good, while God preferred free will?
Ok, I think I understand now. You were referring to the word "choice" when you said agency. I was confused and thought you meant you were referring to being sustained when you said agency.
Hey, maybe I was paying attention in Sunday School and Primary. :)
Posted by Phil on January 1, 2003, at 20:35:19
In reply to empower, posted by rayww on December 31, 2002, at 11:17:54
Always check with your doctor before stopping or starting any medications or other therapies.
How is that...
Posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:34:25
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer, posted by Phil on January 1, 2003, at 20:35:19
....and, who is the doctor?
Posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:40:43
In reply to Re: empower » rayww, posted by Dinah on January 1, 2003, at 5:05:14
I think you hit the nail on the head about the faith board when you said you were trying to make it work for you. The faith board should work for the people, not the other way around. When the people beginning working for the faith board Uncle Bob becomes the employeer. When the faith board works for the people he is the server. Cool thought eh.
Posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:52:21
In reply to Re: empower » Dinah, posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:40:43
The same thought could be applied to Christ and the church. Christ is our server. He enables us to serve others through the church. Of course, when I refer to the church, I am thinking my church, and you would be thinking your church, and your Christ. (disclaimer)
Posted by Phil on January 2, 2003, at 18:53:22
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » Phil, posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:34:25
It is always good to see if your doctor will endorse the treatment and monitor your progress.
If they say no, you can go it alone but it would be irresponsible of me to not do a disclaimer.There are a lot of people reading what's said here and I worry that someone, especially if they are recently diagnosed, will throw their meds away and go to a treatment that has no real studies to back it up. It works for you and that is great but what if it doesn't work for someone?
BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by your question?
Phil
Posted by rayww on January 4, 2003, at 10:23:50
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer, posted by Phil on January 2, 2003, at 18:53:22
> It is always good to see if your doctor will endorse the treatment and monitor your progress.
It is illegal to post on the box of any herbal that it is a remedy for:.......... or that it specifically helps this or that. Therefore, a doctor cannot prescribe it. He has approved and has said he knows many who have been helped, some who have not noticed any difference, but none whom it has hurt.
> If they say no, you can go it alone but it would be irresponsible of me to not do a disclaimer.
Likewise, I would also disclaim pot as an alternative to a high in reality. As was mentioned in a previous post, drugs can fake a spiritual elevation in the mind, but that is not to say there is no such thing as the real one.
>
> There are a lot of people reading what's said here and I worry that someone, especially if they are recently diagnosed, will throw their meds away and go to a treatment that has no real studies to back it up. It works for you and that is great but what if it doesn't work for someone?
>You don't throw your meds away. You can tell when it is time to decrease them by the way you begin to feel. I wonder who reads here. I wonder if there are people out there who can't afford the luxury of therapy or medicine, who have to rely on us. Not everyone has a PHD or knows how to express themselves at the computer. I have no credits to my name in the professional realm, but I give myself credit for life long learning.
> BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by your question?
>
>Oh? Then, I suppose you have never considered the Master Physician a Doctor? Most people here think that God is real, not just some kind of imaginary people-grouper.
Answers should be more simple than complicated. Help should be more free and easy to come by, than take all of our money and be hard to find. Life should go smooth, and not always get hung up on ruts and bumps. We should be able to sail smoothly over obstacles. It should be, could be, but isn't always. Just as drugs can bring a temporary relief to emotional pain, our heads can also create pain. There is pain in the perception, fear in the unknown.
How high did you stretch this morning? When we fail to stretch it becomes easier to slump. I'm slumping today, but Christmas always over-stretches us, so to slump in January is acceptable.
To all the readers who read but don't post, I love you, happy new year, may each day be better than the last, may you continue to learn. Love rayww. (did you read that right ?:)
Posted by Phil on January 4, 2003, at 12:52:17
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer, posted by rayww on January 4, 2003, at 10:23:50
> > It is always good to see if your doctor will endorse the treatment and monitor your progress.
>
> It is illegal to post on the box of any herbal that it is a remedy for:.......... or that it specifically helps this or that. Therefore, a doctor cannot prescribe it.I asked if he would monitor your progress. I ran a pharmacy for 7 years so I know the rules as far as what a doc can or can't do.
> > If they say no, you can go it alone but it would be irresponsible of me to not do a disclaimer.
>
> Likewise, I would also disclaim pot as an alternative to a high in reality. As was mentioned in a previous post, drugs can fake a spiritual elevation in the mind, but that is not to say there is no such thing as the real one.
>
> > No argument there.
> > There are a lot of people reading what's said here and I worry that someone, especially if they are recently diagnosed, will throw their meds away and go to a treatment that has no real studies to back it up. It works for you and that is great but what if it doesn't work for someone?
> >
>
> You don't throw your meds away. You can tell when it is time to decrease them by the way you begin to feel.>>Wrong! Never ever stop meds without your doctor saying he thinks you're ready. Being on this board daily for 4 years + 20 years on these drugs, the patient should not make that decision.
Several times a week, people come on this board saying they are having severe withdrawal cause they quit their meds cold turkey thinking they were better. They don't check with their doctor.
Never stop any med w/o seeing your doctor. Never represent yourself in court.> > BTW, I'm not sure what you mean by your question?
I'm a Christian and God made doctors to help with ailments. I think Billy Graham is very respected by many, myself included. When Dr. Graham gets sick, he goes to his doctor. He recommends it to others. The Pope sees doctors.
>
> Answers should be more simple than complicated. Help should be more free and easy to come by, than take all of our money and be hard to find. Life should go smooth, and not always get hung up on ruts and bumps. We should be able to sail smoothly over obstacles. It should be, could be, but isn't always. Just as drugs can bring a temporary relief to emotional pain, our heads can also create pain. There is pain in the perception, fear in the unknown.>>Bad perception and fear are what lands many of us here.
>
> How high did you stretch this morning? When we fail to stretch it becomes easier to slump. I'm slumping today, but Christmas always over-stretches us, so to slump in January is acceptable.Uh, okay. I don't slump.
> To all the readers who read but don't post, I love you, happy new year, may each day be better than the last, may you continue to learn. Love rayww. (did you read that right ?:)I can read just fine, thank you. I would remind everyone to put your faith in your God but go see your doctor before adjusting doses, etc. 20 years ago, I learned a hard lesson on that.
Meds fool you. You get back up to speed so you quit the meds, toss em out. Read PB, it's almost daily that someone does a version of that scenario.
If God tells you to stop your meds, get a second opinion. He'll understand.
Phil
Posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 2:01:24
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer, posted by Phil on January 4, 2003, at 12:52:17
> > Love rayww. (did you read that right :)
>
> I can read just fine, thank you. I would remind everyone to put your faith in your God but go see your doctor before adjusting doses, etc. 20 years ago, I learned a hard lesson on that.Angels of mercy are usually other people, sent to us by God, or placed in our path. I think we agree on these issues.
>
> Meds fool you. You get back up to speed so you quit the meds, toss em out. Read PB, it's almost daily that someone does a version of that scenario.Right. But for me: I maintain a nice level as long as I take my supplements on time and don't skip a day. When I get up and start doing books, and don't eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, or take my pills, I will spend a couple of days with the old symptoms, and start writing things I wish I hadn't, and doing things wrong, ignoring people I love, wishing to be left alone, wallowing in mess, self sabatoge things. I don't think you care, but the supplements do seem to be working "for" me, not me for them. The supplements work fast, and don't have to build up for months before you can feel a difference.
>
> If God tells you to stop your meds, get a second opinion. He'll understand.You're reacting to my reaction.
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 8:14:29
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » Phil, posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:34:25
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 8:21:42
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » Phil, posted by rayww on January 2, 2003, at 16:34:25
What would you say is the greatest of all sins, in God's eyes?
Posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 10:36:15
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » rayww, posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 8:21:42
> What would you say is the greatest of all sins, in God's eyes?
Betrayal
It is "possible" through the atonement of Jesus Christ to be forgiven of all sins except one, and unless you have made covenants in the holy spirit of promise, you cannot even commit that sin.
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=%22holy+spirit+of+promise%22&search.x=23&search.y=9In the gospel of Jesus Christ, faith and repentance is fundamental. Daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, continual. In the weekly ordinance of sacrament the serious partaker is completely forgiven of all sins in that weekly renewal of covenants.
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=%22covenant%22&search.x=27&search.y=7
Posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 12:39:40
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer, posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 10:36:15
According to C.S. Lewis: Pride. He calls it the complete anti-God state of mind. It leads to all other sins.
Someone sees a friends new girlfriend and decides he wants her. Not because he feels anything special for her, he just wants to snub his friend.
It's okay to be proud of your accomplishments but if you worked hard to think you are now something special and above it all, not good.
If you are proud of your son's grades, that's different. Unless you go to your neighbor and brag about it when you know his son is struggling.
Since reading "Mere Christianity", I've never seen the world quite the same. When Charles Colson was given a copy by a friend, the former Watergate criminal became a priest. The chapter on pride was what hit him.
Many days, especially when I was younger, I had moments in my mind when I thought I was hot stuff. Felt good-ego city. I later learned that those were times I was at my worst in God's eyes.
C.S. Lewis says it waaay better than I can but, no matter your faith, that skinny little book can teach people a lot.
Just passing it on, thought you might enjoy it.
I've heard his book, "The Four Loves" is even better. And his childrens books are pretty special too.Phil
Posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 13:25:56
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » rayww, posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 12:39:40
you are so right!
Posted by Noa on January 6, 2003, at 14:34:23
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » Phil, posted by rayww on January 6, 2003, at 13:25:56
This thread has been interesting to read.
Posted by rayww on January 8, 2003, at 9:33:18
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » rayww, posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 12:39:40
Thanks for suggesting the books. I will definately get them. C.S. Lewis is the most quoted Christian in mormon sermons too. One such, a classic now in the church on pride, is (BTW, a very mormon sermon given as a warning to our people)
This is the C.S. Lewis quote used in that sermon, and I have never forgotten it:"The proud make every man their adversary by pitting their intellects, opinions, works, wealth, talents, or any other worldly measuring device against others. In the words of C. S. Lewis: "Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. … It is the comparison that makes you proud: the pleasure of being above the rest. Once the element of competition has gone, pride has gone." (Mere Christianity, New York: Macmillan, 1952, pp. 109-10.)"
Posted by junie on January 8, 2003, at 13:46:16
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » rayww, posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 12:39:40
Enjoyed the thread--I'm new, I'm BP II. I think CS Lewis must be the "official author of the 'faith' board. I have a copy of Mere Christianity in my desk drawer at work!
Posted by rayww on January 8, 2003, at 15:20:30
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » rayww, posted by Phil on January 6, 2003, at 12:39:40
I have never seen such a long link. The first one didn't connect, but this one should. If mormon culture offends you, please avoid. I think Phil was right when he labelled pride as the greatest sin in God's eyes, because it is a universal sin, one that affects us all. If we don't understand the scriptural meaning of pride, and how it differs from the worldly meaning, a study of religious texts would be appropriate.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2003, at 0:22:46
In reply to Re: empower: Disclaimer » Phil, posted by rayww on January 8, 2003, at 15:20:30
> I have never seen such a long link. The first one didn't connect
Sorry about that. It should work now.
Bob
Posted by rayww on January 9, 2003, at 10:23:19
In reply to Re: didn't connect, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2003, at 0:22:46
> > I have never seen such a long link. The first one didn't connect
>
> Sorry about that. It should work now.
>
> BobThanks Bob, it works, but doesn't link to the right article, so to clear this up, on that link, search "pride" and it's at the top of the list, "Beware of Pride" by Ezra Taft Benson.
These are easier to read if you copy/paste into MicrosoftWord.
Posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2003, at 18:55:17
In reply to Re: didn't connect, posted by rayww on January 9, 2003, at 10:23:19
> "Beware of Pride" by Ezra Taft Benson.
Is this better? :-)
Bob
Posted by rayww on January 10, 2003, at 1:54:42
In reply to Re: didn't connect, posted by Dr. Bob on January 9, 2003, at 18:55:17
Yes Thanks.. It took courage for me to post this, my favorite sermon on pride. but then I thought, if there was an Islam or a Jewish, or Lutheren link to their sermon on pride I would read it and grasp whatever lined up with my belief. I would hope that others can do the same here and take what means something to them. I'm sorry if any of this makes anyone uncomfortable, the one or two who may read it.
Ezra Taft Benson was Secretary of Agriculture for the whole 8 years of the Dwight Eisenhower administration. http://www.zionsbest.com/proper_role.html If they had listened to him, our food industry might not be in the crisis it is today, where both the producer and the consumer are getting ripped off by the super powers in the middle. We are all slaves now to GMS (Global Marketing Stragedy) ENRON type deception is everywhere, eating through the food chain into our pocket and gut.
We're caught in the middle of a modern example of pride and the potential downfall of a nation. but it's not too late, because i believe that all evil organizations will fall, and "great will be the fall." It has begun. If you can't recognize it, look around, but hope for the humble abounds, and God is at the helm.
http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=%22great+was+the+fall+of+it%22&search.x=29&search.y=6EMPower, up to 5 three times/day, back on track, but swinging high. sorry about getting so carried away, but it feels good to write like this.
Posted by CamW. on May 24, 2003, at 16:23:10
In reply to empower, posted by rayww on December 31, 2002, at 11:17:54
"Snake Oil"
Did someone mention religion.....
>:-||
.... <this post has been terminated by the powers that be (but not the invisible, imaginary kind)> .....
What's that? .... Damn! ..... 164 weeks!
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 24, 2003, at 18:51:57
In reply to Re: empower = Two Words, posted by CamW. on May 24, 2003, at 16:23:10
> "Snake Oil"
>
> Did someone mention religion.....
>
> What's that? .... Damn! ..... 164 weeks!I think "just" 8, am I off?
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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