![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by rayww on December 26, 2002, at 15:20:53
Since this is the "faith" board, I would like to ask what you think the difference is between faith and belief.
A few weeks ago there was a question here on faith that prompted many to share their good definitions. If faith can move mountains, why can't it protect us from harm? Or can it?
I once asked my brother what his religious belief was. Without going into detail, he basically said he still believed all he had been taught as a child. I was surprised by his answer because at that time he hadn't darkened the door of any church for over 10 years, and he was heavily into drugs and other things prohibited by that religion, which he claimed to believe.
His answer has caused me to question faith, and I have concluded that faith is like a seed. Belief without faith does not have power. Growing in faith is what makes belief strong. It takes faith to grow faith, and growing faith produces more faith to grow more faith. Faith enables us to repent and to do the commandments. If a seed is properly nourished it is impossible to prevent it from growing. Faith is like that. If faith was the seed of a giant RedWood, and that seed was planted next to a rock, which would move which?
It takes faith to believe, and it takes belief to have faith. How can you tell if you have faith? By the fruit of the seed. A good seed produces fruit. A bad seed withers and dies. The things we do are the seeds we sow. To "proof" the commandments, or to discover for ourselves if the principle is true, just do it. If you "do it" and the seed begins to grow, you will know it was true by what it produces. The faith seeds planted by belief can remain dormant for a long long time.
My brother decided 20 years ago to start nourishing his seeds of faith. That was when he started to mature, grow up, lead out, help others, raise a family, branch out, protect others. I use my brother's example because it is something I can see with my eyes, therefore it takes no faith to believe. But to believe in God, whom we can't see, takes faith. First you pray, then you receive an answer so your faith grows and you pray again. Things you cannot see become real and you grow step by step.
Many people today are wondering how they can develop the spiritual side of their life. I say, grow faith.
My opinion, if I'm allowed to think this through is, faith is stronger than belief because it grows the power within us to repent. Bad things still happen to good people, but as Dinah said, God helps us through.
Faith is by the grace of God, a gift bestowed upon us for trying.
Posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 21:07:37
In reply to what is stronger, faith or belief?, posted by rayww on December 26, 2002, at 15:20:53
> But to believe in God, whom we can't see, takes faith. First you pray, then you receive an answer so your faith grows and you pray again. Things you cannot see become real and you grow step by step.
Well, if you received an answer, wouldn't that be "seeing" God, and thus reduce the need for faith? Or do you think you need faith in order to receive an answer, in which case praying wouldn't serve to increase faith...
What if you don't receive an answer, yet have faith anyway? Or believe anyway? I haven't the gift of prayer. All my life, I wanted to be like Joseph Smith. I wanted to ask in all earnestness what was true, and receive an answer. It didn't have to come with angels or visions, just with a still small voice. And I never did. I do have faith that there is a God, and I love Him and trust in His goodness.. But for the rest, the particulars, I have studied and studied, I have beliefs, I have theories, but I'm open to the possibility that they are completely wrong. I figure I won't know for sure until and unless I can check it out.
>
> Faith is by the grace of God, a gift bestowed upon us for trying.Yes, I do believe faith, like all other gifts, is by the grace of God. I suppose He has other plans for me though. :)
Posted by rayww on December 27, 2002, at 1:35:02
In reply to Re: what is stronger, faith or belief?, posted by Dinah on December 26, 2002, at 21:07:37
> Well, if you received an answer, wouldn't that be "seeing" God, and thus reduce the need for faith? Or do you think you need faith in order to receive an answer, in which case praying wouldn't serve to increase faith...
When you receive an answer it strengthens your belief and testimony that there is a living God, but there is still a need for faith until you "see" him face to face.
I remember in high school falling asleep in an exam. I said a silent prayer, having no faith that it would help, and asked that I might wake up long enough to finish the test. As I thought the words I suddenly became wide awake and alert. That was the shock of my life because I hadn't asked in faith, yet I received a startling answer. God got my attention that day.
God has a personality and a sense of humor. He knows how to get our attention. After suffering several tragedies in my family, I told him all right already, he had my attention and I resolved to serve more faithfully from then on. Where much is given, much is expected, and I knew he expected more from me than what I was doing. He knew my weaknesses, and knew I was bipolar, though He probably had a different name for it, like "gift" or something.
>
> What if you don't receive an answer, yet have faith anyway? Or believe anyway? I haven't the gift of prayer. All my life, I wanted to be like Joseph Smith. I wanted to ask in all earnestness what was true, and receive an answer. It didn't have to come with angels or visions, just with a still small voice. And I never did. I do have faith that there is a God, and I love Him and trust in His goodness.. But for the rest, the particulars, I have studied and studied, I have beliefs, I have theories, but I'm open to the possibility that they are completely wrong. I figure I won't know for sure until and unless I can check it out.
>
> >
> > Faith is by the grace of God, a gift bestowed upon us for trying.
>
> Yes, I do believe faith, like all other gifts, is by the grace of God. I suppose He has other plans for me though. :)Perhaps (what if) your words to others are *their* answer to prayers. Where would that put you? You don't think the still small voice guides your thoughts at the keyboard? Dinah it's been with you all along.
I know what you mean about wanting the answer. sometimes our answers come in direct proportion to need and desire. Maybe you'll get it tonight : ) fasting can bring it on. it brought mine. i asked, hoping to receive an answer and after the third day of pretty much constant prayer it came like a tingling that entered at my head and went through my whole body to the tips of my toes, and rested there, coming and going several times during that night. it felt like god was in me or i in him. i could never deny it. It was a physical/spiritual sensation. it was sacred and maybe i shouldn't be trying to describe it here. perhaps I got it because i would need it to get me through the crash that came soon after. i tell you, god meets you at the door of faith and gives you whatever you need to get you through the crunch times. I'm still here aren't I? You're still here aren't you? Why are we all still here? Do we have to be blind and deaf before we can see and hear?
Posted by Dinah on December 27, 2002, at 16:43:43
In reply to Re: what is stronger, faith or belief? » Dinah, posted by rayww on December 27, 2002, at 1:35:02
Ok, you got me. :) I do rely on the still small voice in a number of areas in my life. I was just hoping it would help me out with the faith issue. And while I *believe* that the still small voice is a manifestation of God's grace, God's *spirit*, I guess there could be other explanations for it. (See, faith is not my strong suit.)
Posted by rayww on December 27, 2002, at 20:03:37
In reply to Re: what is stronger, faith or belief? » rayww, posted by Dinah on December 27, 2002, at 16:43:43
> (See, faith is not my strong suit.)
Experiment with it then. when you hear the still small voice, act on it.
20 years ago I decided to try this to see if it would increase my spiritual sensitivity (faith), so every time I heard the still small voice (conscience) prompting me to do something (go check on the kids, start making supper, get the mail, call a friend, send a letter) I "tried" to do it. That was when I started noticing little miracles in my timing. I would have to say that was one of the pivotal points in my life. And, it did become easier to recognize. I should go back to that again as I've become a bit of a slacker.
Just for a day - - how about it? Do you think PB time would fit in?
Do you think faith is separate from life? or does it connect it all up once you activate it?
Posted by Dinah on December 27, 2002, at 20:42:07
In reply to Re: what is stronger, faith or belief?, posted by rayww on December 27, 2002, at 20:03:37
Listening to my conscience has never been much of a problem for OCD me. I need to stop listening sometimes.
Posted by Blessed on April 21, 2003, at 11:55:19
In reply to what is stronger, faith or belief?, posted by rayww on December 26, 2002, at 15:20:53
Ok, I have an answer I think to this question.... I really don't understand the confusion... because to me it is like black & white? So I will explain it as I see it, & you can see if it makes sense?
To me... faith & belief are the same thing, but faith is much, much stronger. You START with a belief. IE: I "believe" there is a God, I "believe" he is loving & amazing & all powerful, I "belive" that he sent his only son to die on the cross for my sins... Ok? The belief part is like a question (to me) when you are uncertain... SAYING you believe, but that part inside you still questions why.......
The faith is when you come to a point in your life when you KNOW all these things...with certainty. When every fiber in your body stops questioning & you accept these things for what they are, & don't need to know why. When you come to a point of absolute trust in God. Like saying, ok God, I understand now that there are somethings in life that I will never understand, but I am trusting you with everything I have to just believe & for you to guide me through life, & I KNOW you will be there for me always. When you know know know deep in your heart that God is there, & can do anything, & you just stop questioning & accept it. That to me is the ultimate faith.
So you talked about seeds... belief (to me) is the seed planted, growing, growing, flourishing... & faith is when it explodes into a beautiful blossoming fruit bearing tree.
Posted by Dena on April 29, 2003, at 16:39:11
In reply to Re: what is stronger, faith or belief?, posted by Blessed on April 21, 2003, at 11:55:19
Dear Blessed -
Thank you for your answer to the question re. faith & belief. You answered beautifully. And I agree with everything you wrote.
Shalom, Dena
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.