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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 21, 2002, at 14:23:33
Hypothetical: You were born and raised in a small community that never discussed issues of religion, creation, or afterlife, so you have no external influences. Why would you come to belive in a divine creator (and potentially an afterlife)? What would compell you to do so? It's obviously already happened, as someone had to be the first with the notion. What is it about the nature of our universe that requires, and can only be satisfied by, the existance of a higher being? It's not a trivial thing to commit oneself to faith, and begs the question in me of "why?". Does it satisfy a particular set of concerns, or is it simply inviolate and innate, independant of any specific purpose? Did the idea have to be introduced into mankind, or is it innate as well? Are we simply wired to inferr the existance of a god?
I ask a lot of questions, but it's only because it's hard for me to properly define my inquiry. I'm not interested in whether or not a god exists, but the origin of human awareness of his/her/it's existance. Say you believe it: what gave you the idea?
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2002, at 19:09:36
In reply to Why god?, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 21, 2002, at 14:23:33
> Why would you come to belive in a divine creator (and potentially an afterlife)?
I know it's a shift, but I'd like to see more support -- and less questioning -- of religious faith on this board. I revised the introduction at the top of the main page, but I realize that's easy to miss... Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Dinah on November 21, 2002, at 22:18:27
In reply to Why god?, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 21, 2002, at 14:23:33
I recommend the book "The Source" by James A. Michener. I think it's ok to post here, because I had to read it in my required religion class. On the other hand, that course turned me into an agnostic for years. But I'm back to believing now. :)
Posted by rayww on November 22, 2002, at 10:25:43
In reply to Why god?, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 21, 2002, at 14:23:33
How would God make known his own reality to a person isolated from contact with other believers? Through evidence, witnesses, and coincidences.
1. Evidence: the balance in nature denotes divine creation, everything in the sea, land, air, and space
2. Witnesses: like clues in a treasure hunt they can be found if one looks in faith, believing.
3. Coincidences: I just read a book "when GOD winks" that pretty much sums that up
And, 4. True acts of God have witnesses, and from there, "to some it is given to know, and to others to believe on their words" The first man, Adam walked and talked with God in the Garden of Eden. He taught his children, they taught theirs, their witness was preserved in the Bible. What is the Bible if not a witness to the reality of God? In a court of law could one prove that Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God by drawing upon witnesses found in the Bible? Probably not, but coupled with "another book" which is a second witness to Jesus Christ, and other ancient texts that are being discovered such as the dead sea scrolls, and future records which will be un-earthed, yes!"A Bible, A Bible, you say you have a Bible, and what thank ye the Jews for the Bible"?http://scriptures.lds.org/2_ne/29/4#4
Another evidence, the Jews cannot be destroyed because God said they wouldn't be. Watch and see.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 23, 2002, at 0:42:10
In reply to Re: please be supportive of religious faith » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2002, at 19:09:36
> I know it's a shift, but I'd like to see more support -- and less questioning -- of religious faith on this board.
Sorry, I forgot to add that discussion about posting policies should take place at Psycho-Babble Administration. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/8286.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 25, 2002, at 9:53:42
In reply to Re: please be supportive of religious faith » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dr. Bob on November 21, 2002, at 19:09:36
> I know it's a shift, but I'd like to see more support -- and less questioning -- of religious faith on this board. I revised the introduction at the top of the main page, but I realize that's easy to miss... Thanks,
------------------Sorry about that. You do indeed have that policy posted.
I'm really not trying to attack faith, though. Actually, I'm rather envious of those with faith in a higher purpose to life and a grand scheme to things. A life of nihilism doesn't really do much to buoy morale. Many of my friends are serious advocates of (Christian) faith, and they're certainly (or at least speciously) more well adjusted than I. I simply know that I don't presently have faith, and am trying to explore the origins of faith for others. I've tried prayer, meditation, acts of altruism, and simply pretending, but nothing really works. Since day one of my life, I've been coldly pragmatic. It seems that I'll just have to wait until some day that it magically strikes me.
Aside from my own search for purpose, I think that a faith not questioned is a pretty shaky one. People with genuine faith usually enjoy the opportunity to discuss and describe their beliefs. Still, I won't post anything here again, unless policy changes.
Posted by NikkiT2 on November 25, 2002, at 10:13:46
In reply to Re: please be supportive of religious faith » Dr. Bob, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 25, 2002, at 9:53:42
Fantastic post Eddie :o)
I feel the same... I ahve no real faith, but would like to.. and feel that asking questions of people with the faith, finding out how they "do it" etc will maybe help me find it one day. Life with faith in nothing is quite tedious.
But, another board I guess I am being excluded from as I don't know how to follow traditional ideas in it.
I have studied many faiths, I discuss it at length with a friend studying Theology. I enjoy discussing other peoples faiths... OK, I may ask silly questions, but thats just to help my understanding of it.
*shrugs* maybe I should just lie, say I am christian, and am asking these questions in order to understand my faith better...
Nikki
Posted by snood on December 4, 2002, at 11:34:03
In reply to Re: please be supportive of religious faith » Dr. Bob, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 25, 2002, at 9:53:42
Since day one of my life, I've been coldly pragmatic. It seems that I'll just have to wait until some day that it magically strikes me.
Eddie,
I am a Christian (I go to a Baptist church, but I can't say that we're actually Baptist...lol) and hopefully no one will attack my beliefs here, but judging by your quote above, God is already working on your heart and mind. You seem to be really very open-minded to matters of faith, and that may eventually lead you to a God that you can completely believe in. For some people, believing in God isn't something that comes to them "magically". For my husband, believing in what my bible says was a slow process, of over 2 years. I was raised in Church, wanted nothing to do with religion or church as I got older, but I still believed in God. My husband one day, out of the blue, said he wanted us to find a church. I resisted. I wanted nothing to do with it. Eventually, he got me to go with him, and after 2 years of arguing about why I didn't need to go with him, I heard the pastor say something that reminded me that I was much happier when I was living as a practicing Born-again Christian. So, It's like I've been born-again twice. But in the end it was MY choice to believe again.
So, just remember that these are my beliefs, I have respect for other people's beliefs, and I am making no attempt to try to get you to believe what I believe. I'm basically just saying that if you keep searching, you will find what's right for YOU. It doesn't matter who's God you believe in or even if you choose no God, as long as it is YOUR belief.
I pray you find what you are looking for.....
JMHO
-Snood
Posted by WorryGirl on December 12, 2002, at 14:09:01
In reply to Why god?, posted by Eddie Sylvano on November 21, 2002, at 14:23:33
Eddie,
You are asking one of the most complex questions about life. Every time I think I have the answer, humility crashes down on me in many forms.As much as anyone would like to believe they have the answer I don't really feel that there is one, because everyone's faith (or lack of it) is individual and it seems that it's supposed to be that way. Why else would there be so many religions?
From the time I was a little girl it was instilled in me that there is a God and that He cares about us. I was never taught faith at that time, just that if I was a good girl I would go to heaven. So naturally, whenever I wasn't good I felt doomed to the eternal depths of hell. At that time the only role that faith played was that I believed what my parents told me.
As I became an adult I started to resent that I had to "act a certain way" or I wouldn't have eternal life. I also had to have faith. And what was that, really?
I've gone through many transitions in my life, and been on some dark roads, which in the long run helped me to have the faith that I have today.
My definition could change down the road, but for me, faith is this:
1) Surrender - realizing that you cannot do it alone. We need help. God will help us if we ask Him. Even if we doubt his existence He will hear us. This might sound crazy, but one night I was questioning God's existence and asked for just one tiny iota of proof. This goes against religious teachings as a whole. What, doubt? If you're a good christian, you're never supposed to doubt and it would be an insult to God to ask for proof. But Thomas doubted Jesus' existence, then Jesus was shown to Thomas. Well, that night, seconds after I prayed this prayer for some kind of proof I received a jolt and bolt of light that I had never seen before and have not since. I believe God was letting me know that it was OK that I had a doubt, and He was letting me know that He was there for me. It was OK for me to admit how needy I was. At this point you ask for Him to guide your life. If we need meds as part of our journey, that's OK.2) Assurance - Knowing in the end we're all going to be OK as long as we trust God to take care of us. I'm still working on this one sometimes because of guilt over the past, etc., but God doesn't expect us to be perfect. He just wants us to know that He'll take care of us if we let Him. I'm sure God wants us to be as happy as possible so whatever keeps us balanced, whether it's meds, exercise or herbs, as long as it's healthy, so be it.
3) Sharing - sharing anything we've learned with others. Since we can't actually talk to God in person (at least I haven't!), I think that whenever we share the faith we have (how we got it, how it works for us) that is, in a sense, God speaking through us.
>Why would you come to belive in a divine creator (and potentially an afterlife)? What would compell you to do so?
Another belief of mine is that every single being on this planet will be given the revelation of a divine creator and afterlife at some point in their life. It's what they choose to do with that revelation (cast it aside, dispute it, believe it) that determines their faith. I don't feel that God would unfairly put us on this earth to be doomed merely to just this life here. It's too imbalanced - sometimes good people have crappy lives with one bad thing after another happening to them, bad people live like millionaires, good people live wonderful lives and bad people live miserable ones. It is during this life that we have our chance to determine our fate. God has given us choice - we do have a say in the matter. I know it's easier said than done, and what I keep trying to aspire to. Some might say that I'm just fooling myself, but I would have a difficult time existing here if I thought this was the only life I had. If this was the only life I had, I think I would be absolutely miserable and resentful of every missed opportunity. I wonder what the purpose would be of even being a decent person when you see so many evil people thriving - you know, "dog eat dog". But it would never be enough, because the more you had the more you would want; after all, this is the only life you have. It would be hard for me to be at peace if this was it.
I hope that helped in some way, even if it's just to hear someone else's perspective.
Take care.
Posted by rayww on December 13, 2002, at 22:54:15
In reply to Re: Why god?, posted by WorryGirl on December 12, 2002, at 14:09:01
You express this very well. I hope you continue to write here. Thank-you for sharing.
Posted by Jonathan on February 8, 2003, at 0:29:05
In reply to Re: Why god?, posted by Dinah on November 21, 2002, at 22:18:27
> I recommend the book "The Source" by James A. Michener. I think it's ok to post here, because I had to read it in my required religion class. On the other hand, that course turned me into an agnostic for years. But I'm back to believing now. :)
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20021128/msgs/9114.html explains why this works.
Posted by Dinah on February 8, 2003, at 21:04:36
In reply to Amazon link for 'The Source (Michener)' » Dinah, posted by Jonathan on February 8, 2003, at 0:29:05
This is the end of the thread.
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