![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 10:52:43
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by ClearSkies on August 17, 2007, at 10:33:11
I forgot to mention that when a poster thinks that a post doesn't belong on a particular board, he or she should click the "notify admin" button and request that the post be moved to another board. It seems unfair to bring this up to a poster who may not know what is appropriate to post on another board. Also the post in question deserves to be considered by the administration, who may be more even-handed than a poster who has certain opinions not mentioned in the FAQ or subsequent policy decisions on admin.
If there is an administrative issue about what belongs on the /eating/ board, it should be raised on the appropriate board, which is probably the administration board.
But this is a point in addition to that mentioned above in my previous post. I'm just trying to figure out how and why this board should be devoted exclusively to eating *disorders* when there is a whole spectrum of eating habits that may cause a poster distress. The issues of medication, therapy approaches, and self-help, and dieting (whether to gain or to lose weight) seem to fall under the umbrella of "eating" and these issues should be treated with sensitivity and dignity, regardless of whatever the DSM-IV or the ICD says.It's interesting that you mention the substance board. The parallel is apt. Also on the /psychobabble/ (meds) board, there is an interesting and productive discussion about which medications are helpful, which are unhelpful, which are worth switching to, which are potentially harmful, etc. In addition there are often issues which touch on substance abuse, alternative therapies and psychotherapy + medication. These "interdisciplinary" discussions seem to encompass the experiences of an individual.
I don't think that any poster here has issues which are limited to a particular board, and a deeper discussion may be really informative, even if it seems on the surface irrelevant to eating, per se.
-Ll
Posted by karen_kay on August 17, 2007, at 14:04:56
In reply to Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 9:36:14
i've always thought some words for my posts would have been helpful. the fact i've never recieved any have hurt. i've been struggling with this weight loss bs for a while and it's something that is somewhat disstressing to me.
i've thought myself to be a relatively positive poster here. and i've always thought myself to be someone who's 'rooted' others on when they needed help.
sorry if this is silly but i'm honestly struggling with my weightloss issues. though i don't have an eating disorder (hell, i don't even know what the criteria is), some helpful words of encouragement would be nice, you know? not the idea that 'you can't post here unless you have an eating disorder'. i did always wonder why i was having a conversation with myself an d li (not that i don't love li to death, but some words fo wisdom from people who know the criteria and maybe could say 'oh, it's jsut your mind' or 'maybe you should talk to someone about this' you know?)
distraught that this may even be on the wrong board,
kk (who's nto even sure she spelled it right)
Posted by Racer on August 18, 2007, at 11:33:30
In reply to Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 9:36:14
Having posts about dieting on the Health board wasn't about discrimination against people doing it -- it's just that it's so triggering for people with eating disorders.
If this becomes the dieting board, that means that those of us with eating disorders won't have a place to get support for it. If this reverts to being the eating disorders board, those who want to discuss learning healthier eating patterns and dieting will still have the Health board.
I'm just trying to express another view here. It is my view, in that I don't feel very safe on this board anymore -- even reading the subject lines is enough for my guts to knot up. And it's not that I don't like anyone, or that I think I'm somehow better or more deserving than anyone else -- it's part of my craziness, it's part of how miserable I am with my weight, and how much I want to be able to lose weight, and how trapped I feel in this immense prison of a body I'm in.
Peace.
Posted by Poet on August 18, 2007, at 16:30:05
In reply to Another view » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Racer on August 18, 2007, at 11:33:30
Hi Everyone,
I think the confusion is with the name of this board. Maybe we should change the name to Eating Disorders?
I agree with Racer that the Health board makes more sense for posting things about healthy weight loss. Not that I find all non-eating disorder related diet posts triggering, it's that I really can't always offer any help because I am far from a healthy eating role model. So I don't respond to some posts because I feel I can't offer anything. I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm ignoring, I'm not.
Poet
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 18, 2007, at 18:44:57
In reply to Re: Another view, posted by Poet on August 18, 2007, at 16:30:05
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I think the confusion is with the name of this board. Maybe we should change the name to Eating Disorders?Is this any different from having a borderline personality disorder board, or an alcoholics board?
Eating disorders past present and future: would those in "remission" be allowed to post about weight-related issues even though they don't currently meet eating-disordered diagnostic criteria? Would only those who have a current diagnosis be supported if they posted here? Would someone deserve support if he or she were on their way to meeting diagnostic criteria?
What about the idea I raised of a heirarchy of suffering? When weight loss/gain is part of psychopathology and causes the individual marked distress (dare I use kk's situation above?) must we wait for a professional or self-proclaimed ED before they merit posting on this board?
What I'm talking about is not an administrative issue of whether the board should be renamed or not, but rather an issue of how to reconcile the mission statement of psycho-babble in general with the idea that only certain people (i.e. those with particular diagnoses) should be posting on the /eating/ board?
>
> I agree with Racer that the Health board makes more sense for posting things about healthy weight loss.fair enough, but if you read my entire thread above, there are some themes of disordered eating (due to depression, in my case) which have been resolved through a healthier approach to losing/maintaining weight. I even talked about these issues with my therapist, as I needed professional support and advice so that I didn't slip into some spiral. Isn't it a good thing to share success stories?
>Not that I find all non-eating disorder related diet posts triggering, it's that I really can't always offer any help because I am far from a healthy eating role model. So I don't respond to some posts because I feel I can't offer anything. I'm sorry if anyone thinks I'm ignoring, I'm not.
>
> Poet
>I'm glad that you're not using the argument that posting should be limited because it's "triggering". As Clearskies mentions above, on the substances board there are recovering alcoholics mingled with those in the midst of a downward spiral of drug-seeking and addiction. Should one of these types of posters be discouraged from using the substances board? I think that having people who are recovering and people who are still struggling makes for a richer and more informative discussion about what it means to be addicted or abusing.
Arguing that one kind of post is too triggering to exist on a board is a kind of censorship of someone's real experience. It may disempower a person at the very point that he or she seeks support from peers. It may undermine a poster's effort to seek further help, including professional help. If a post is triggering, why not post immediately below it ***triggers above^^^*** as we do on other boards.
I bet that you folks in remission from eating disorders have a wealth of information and strategies to share with us. Even if you may doubt your own competence to use this knowledge yourself, there is surely no harm in sharing it with others? Nutritional advice- surely Poet knows something about that!!! too modest!
-Ll
Posted by Poet on August 18, 2007, at 22:29:39
In reply to Re: Another view » Poet, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 18, 2007, at 18:44:57
Hi Ll,
< As Clearskies mentions above, on the substances board there are recovering alcoholics mingled with those in the midst of a downward spiral of drug-seeking and addiction. Should one of these types of posters be discouraged from using the substances board?
I absolutely think that recovering or recovered alcoholics or drug addicts should post on the Substance Abuse board. Just as recovering/recovered posters with EDs should post on this board. This board was created due to requests to Dr. Bob to have a board for eating disorders.
I am not saying that if you do not have an ED don't post here, what I'm trying to say is that if someone has an issue with eating related to mental illness it belongs here. In other words like your example that you lost weight when you were depressed. I can identify with that as I also stop eating when depressed. I look back in longing to when I used to stop eating when I had anxiety. Which will tell you how my brain works or maybe that should be doesn't work.
< I bet that you folks in remission from eating disorders have a wealth of information and strategies to share with us. Even if you may doubt your own competence to use this knowledge yourself, there is surely no harm in sharing it with others? Nutritional advice- surely Poet knows something about that!!! too modest!
I honestly think that nutritional and dieting advice should be on the Health board. I also honestly admit I rare go to the Health board and should visit it more often. You are right I am being too modest as I do know good nutrition and ways to diet. I just don't always practice them which is why I hang on this board.
Poet
Posted by Cecilia on August 19, 2007, at 4:20:20
In reply to Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 9:36:14
I'm not sure what the difference between eating issues and eating disorders is. I understand there are DSM criteria, but what about people who have lost quite a bit of weight through anorexia like behavior, restricting primarily out of self hatred, but who will never be thin, let alone anorexic style thin, because once you've got the fat cells in your body they never go away, just get smaller. Someone else with the same issues but different genes might become dangerously thin. The behavior can be exactly the same- eating say only one cup of cottage cheese a day and nothing else, which I once did for months, if you're fat like me people will think it's wonderful, but if you're thin you'll wind up in the hospital. And some people can make themselves throw up and others can't, surely nearly every overweight person has tried, the issues are the same, some people just can't do it. Cecilia.
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 10:39:57
In reply to More Views » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Poet on August 18, 2007, at 22:29:39
Per the opening paragraph:
"It focuses on eating disorders and issues with food. I think it would make sense, however, if dieting and nutrition were discussed at Health instead."
Also I often use his previous actions as precedent. Here are some of his previous redirects. The first one also includes a brief statement of intent.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20050314/msgs/514963.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20041128/msgs/468536.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20051009/msgs/568007.html
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/eating/20051009/msgs/636719.htmlHope this helps.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 19, 2007, at 11:49:48
In reply to Dr. Bob's View, posted by Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 10:39:57
Thanks Dinah,
This helps me understand what belongs on the Health Board vs. the Eating Board.Still, I have lingering feelings that posting here could (in theory) be limited to certain *posters* namely those who profess to having had or currently having an eating disorder.
Racer writes:
"If this becomes the dieting board, that means that those of us with eating disorders won't have a place to get support for it. If this reverts to being the eating disorders board, those who want to discuss learning healthier eating patterns and dieting will still have the Health board."Is this an example of discriminating against particular posters?
Furthermore isn't "dieting" one of the mainstays of eating disorder treatment? (dieting broadly construed as acquiring and applying knowledge of healthy eating habits)
It seems that Dr. Bob's hasn't been redirecting posts that deal with issues of self-esteem etc. related to weight loss/gain and non-clinical disordered eating habits. So, this helps me understand what this board is about.
-Ll
Posted by Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 12:06:25
In reply to Dinah + Racer » Dinah, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 19, 2007, at 11:49:48
I have to confess to having no great knowledge in this area. I didn't even realize that anorexia, bulemia, and eating disorders NOS were the only eating disorders in the DSM. My intinctual guess would have been that it covered a wider spectrum.
That's why I posted as myself, and limited my post to what Dr. Bob has done in the past. My greatest guidance would be the opening paragraph and the first redirect I listed, which would seem to be even more specific than the opening paragraph.
In this redirect, he seems to say more specifically that this board is for Eating Disorders. Whether he means Eating Disorders as classified in the DSM I am unsure, and I'll ask for further guidance at the next opportunity.
Posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 17:43:20
In reply to Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 9:36:14
I agree with Dinah .. it was Bob who set the parameters for this discussion board.
I also think that this is a dangerous place for anyone who is dieting in a "healthy way". There are so many people with eating disoders who started on a diet and it turned into an ED.
You wrote:Dieting is hard work for some people. (myself). It's especially hard to do a diet the RIGHT way. And to keep myself motivated for some 12 weeks now is not a small thing in my book.
I know how to diet myself into a 3 month stay in the hospital. I don't think it's safe for you to read posts on here.
Congratulations of the weight loss and for doing it in a healthy way.
Take care.
Maxime
> I understand that this board has a lot of babblers who are currently in remission or struggling with an "active" eating disorder.
>
> I also think that it's important to recognize and welcome those that are looking to change their eating habits to become a healthier person.
>
> I don't have an eating disorder. Sure, I've gone through periods of poor nutrition. Times when I was worried that my eating habits were affecting my health.
>
> Just because someone doesn't have an eating disorder doesn't mean that they don't deserve your support. Even being a few pounds overweight can cause great distress. Sometimes the poundage piles up because of psychological disorders OTHER than eating disorders, or because of a medication that increased appetite.
>
> I don't think it's fair to dismiss anyone's question or post because they don't belong in some diagnostic category. That suggests that there is a heirarchy of suffering, a heirarchy of distress.
>
> Plus, it sends the message that one's problems are not worthy of support, perhaps causing paradoxical motivation to "develop" an eating disorder to get the kind of attention from friends, professionals, and babblers that one craves for various reasons.
>
> ***diet triggers below***
> I'm sorry if news of my diet is distressing to some. It's medically sanctioned and follows the advice of a dietician that I consulted several months ago. I hope it's not offensive to have a goal weight. I don't expect everyone to support me, nor do I expect that everyone views 15 lbs of overweight as a "problem". However I have been treated with respect. I would only hope that a relative stranger who comes on the board with a genuine concern should be treated with the respect that I have received.
>
> Dieting is hard work for some people. (myself). It's especially hard to do a diet the RIGHT way. And to keep myself motivated for some 12 weeks now is not a small thing in my book.
>
> Okay, I better stop now.
>
> -Ll
Posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 17:47:15
In reply to Dinah + Racer » Dinah, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 19, 2007, at 11:49:48
> Furthermore isn't "dieting" one of the mainstays of eating disorder treatment? (dieting broadly construed as acquiring and applying knowledge of healthy eating habits)
>The word dieting should never be used when talking or writing to someone with ED. A nutrionist wouldn't do it either. They would use "sticking to a meal plan". Say Diet to someone with ED and they will think " you think I am fat and I need to lose weight!" That person will then lose 20 pounds.
I've been there and that's the reality.
When a person is in recovery from an ED they are not on a diet.
Maxime
Posted by Snowie on August 19, 2007, at 18:12:56
In reply to Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 17, 2007, at 9:36:14
I am the original poster of the Xenical/Alli thread. I posted on the Eating board because I thought that's where it belonged. I eat too much, therefore, I thought the post belonged on a board called "Eating." If I had seen "Eating Disorders" I probably would have thought twice about posting here.
Snowie
Posted by Snowie on August 19, 2007, at 18:23:07
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by Snowie on August 19, 2007, at 18:12:56
As a follow up, I also posted on the Health board but received no responses. Also, not much talk on that board about overeating and losing weight that I can see. I guess everyone is healthy over there.
Snowie
Posted by Racer on August 19, 2007, at 18:33:22
In reply to Re: Dinah + Racer » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 17:47:15
Posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 19:26:24
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders » Snowie, posted by Snowie on August 19, 2007, at 18:23:07
> As a follow up, I also posted on the Health board but received no responses. Also, not much talk on that board about overeating and losing weight that I can see. I guess everyone is healthy over there.
>
> SnowieThose boards don't have as much traffic. You really don't have to be such a smart *ss.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 19:52:31
In reply to Thank you for your articulate explanation (nm) » Maxime, posted by Racer on August 19, 2007, at 18:33:22
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 19, 2007, at 20:50:24
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 17:43:20
> Congratulations of the weight loss and for doing it in a healthy way.
>
> Take care.
>
> Maxime
>thank you Maxime, you take care too.
-Ll
Posted by Deputy Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 22:06:38
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 19:26:24
> You really don't have to be such a smart *ss.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by muffled on August 19, 2007, at 23:38:12
In reply to Please be civil » Maxime, posted by Deputy Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 22:06:38
ED's from what little I know are very very hard in so many ways....
And this thread has been a challenging discussion.
Just wanted to say that I think you guys on this thread handled a very diffuclt and potentionally explosive situation VERY well, you really did. This is NOT sarcasm, I rarely do sarcasm in writings.
I just know how hard it is to try and 'talk' bout some stuff in writing, and how stuff can get misconstrued etc.
So I am very serious in saying how well this was handled.
I think there are other boards with ambiguous names/descriptors...so I added to a thread on admin.
I think we can work this out so there can be safe places for all, cuz thats what we all want, cuz us babblers are a caring lot. Mebbe cuz unfortunately we know what it is to hurt :-(
But I am glad I found babble, and while its challenging here at times....I'm still here. Cuz of the people, you all good people.
Take care you guys.
Muffled
Posted by Maxime on August 20, 2007, at 19:56:24
In reply to Please be civil » Maxime, posted by Deputy Dinah on August 19, 2007, at 22:06:38
You have got to be kidding. *rolls eyes*
> > You really don't have to be such a smart *ss.
>
> Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
> Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
>
> Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.
>
> Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob
Posted by muffled on August 21, 2007, at 14:25:09
In reply to Re: Please be civil » Deputy Dinah, posted by Maxime on August 20, 2007, at 19:56:24
> You have got to be kidding. *rolls eyes*
>
>
> > > You really don't have to be such a smart *ss.
> >
> > Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.**Maxime, sorry I don't know you, and now you proly gonna think I a total busybody, but WTF.
So anyhow, the rules of babble are sometimes strange and inconprehensible, but it is a unique place in many ways, and for the most part i like it here. And to be here, I have to follow the rules, whether I like or agree with them or not.
We DO have the opportunity to TRY and elicit change here on babble, by posting on admin...but change is slow, and often frustrating.
So, that being said, I would like, as a fellow babbler, to warn you that when you get a PBC, you are supposed to apologize or you will get blocked.
I see that there has not been followup yet, and that is most likely due to the fact that the deputies REALLY hate to do blocks etc, but they do so when they do, because they care about this website, and I appreciate that, and so try very hard not to put them in a position of having to do so.
Bob however seems to have no prob.
I think your post was construed as a put down, which is clearly stated in the FAQ as being a prob. It may have been flippant, but the written word is problematic.
Again, your reply to the pbc could ALSO be construed as a put down as your rolling your eyes could be felt as you saying 'duh, you idiot' (I have preteen kids.....;-) I get the eye roll alot!), and therefore a putdown.
I have NO idea as to your intent, hence the prob with the written word....
So you still have opportunity to apologize....
And in case you are wondering WHY I am being a busybody, its cuz I care about this site too, and I appreciate the deputies doing what I refuse to do in order to try and keep this place a little safer for the likes of me. It has been discussed on admin, that we fellow babbler help each other out to try and prevent blocks etc.
So I am trying to help you out is all.
And to be fully honest, to try and give the deps a break too.
Respectfully
Knowitall Muffled ;-)
ps- if you need additional info,or that you don't understand- post or feel free to civilly b-mail me
Posted by Maxime on August 21, 2007, at 17:45:01
In reply to Ummmmmmmm » Maxime, posted by muffled on August 21, 2007, at 14:25:09
I've been on this site for several years. If they want to block me that's fine. It won't be the first time.
Why didn't the person who was snarky to me get a warning? It doesn't make sense! I don't like things that are not logical. I will fight for what is right and if I get blocked, my life will sadly still continue.
No apologies coming from me.
Maxime
> > You have got to be kidding. *rolls eyes*
> >
> >
> > > > You really don't have to be such a smart *ss.
> > >
> > > Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
>
> **Maxime, sorry I don't know you, and now you proly gonna think I a total busybody, but WTF.
> So anyhow, the rules of babble are sometimes strange and inconprehensible, but it is a unique place in many ways, and for the most part i like it here. And to be here, I have to follow the rules, whether I like or agree with them or not.
> We DO have the opportunity to TRY and elicit change here on babble, by posting on admin...but change is slow, and often frustrating.
> So, that being said, I would like, as a fellow babbler, to warn you that when you get a PBC, you are supposed to apologize or you will get blocked.
> I see that there has not been followup yet, and that is most likely due to the fact that the deputies REALLY hate to do blocks etc, but they do so when they do, because they care about this website, and I appreciate that, and so try very hard not to put them in a position of having to do so.
> Bob however seems to have no prob.
> I think your post was construed as a put down, which is clearly stated in the FAQ as being a prob. It may have been flippant, but the written word is problematic.
> Again, your reply to the pbc could ALSO be construed as a put down as your rolling your eyes could be felt as you saying 'duh, you idiot' (I have preteen kids.....;-) I get the eye roll alot!), and therefore a putdown.
> I have NO idea as to your intent, hence the prob with the written word....
> So you still have opportunity to apologize....
> And in case you are wondering WHY I am being a busybody, its cuz I care about this site too, and I appreciate the deputies doing what I refuse to do in order to try and keep this place a little safer for the likes of me. It has been discussed on admin, that we fellow babbler help each other out to try and prevent blocks etc.
> So I am trying to help you out is all.
> And to be fully honest, to try and give the deps a break too.
> Respectfully
> Knowitall Muffled ;-)
> ps- if you need additional info,or that you don't understand- post or feel free to civilly b-mail me
Posted by muffled on August 21, 2007, at 20:10:19
In reply to Re: Ummmmmmmm » muffled, posted by Maxime on August 21, 2007, at 17:45:01
Posted by sunnydays on August 21, 2007, at 23:16:46
In reply to Re: Eating vs. Eating Disorders, posted by Maxime on August 19, 2007, at 19:26:24
What happened to the mission of the site being for support? I feel incredibly upset reading this response. Why do assumptions need to be made about a poster's intent? From every appearance I can see, Snowie was just saying that there is an issue with posting on Health: there are often not as many responses. To a new poster, it might seem like no one identifies when more experienced posters know it's a lack of board traffic. The goal here is not to chase people away from Babble, I don't think. I am in absolute shock after reading this post.
sunnydays
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