![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
Hi, everyone,
I just wanted to pass this on:
> Eating disorders affect five million people in the U.S., and more than 10% of those diagnosed with anorexia nervosa will die from the disease. Seeking to put a human face on these sobering statistics, acclaimed photographer Lauren Greenfield went inside a Florida treatment center to tell the stories of four women who are literally dying to be thin. The devastating HBO documentary THIN reveals what she found there - and explores the issues underlying their illness. Premieres Tuesday, November 14 at 9pm.
http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/thin
A caution from Dr. Beth Steinhauer is that people who are actively restricting their eating, or who still are attempting to lose weight, might be triggered by images of severely underweight people.
If any of you do watch it, I'd be interested in your reactions.
Bob
Posted by Racer on October 26, 2006, at 12:20:20
In reply to devastating HBO documentary THIN, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
We do have digital cable, with OnDemand that sometimes allows us to view some shows from the premium stations like HBO for a relatively small fee. I hope they'll offer it there.
If they do, and I do watch it, I'll be glad to offer a brief review from the perspective of someone who, you know, has a little problem along these lines...
(Although I'd like to hear a little more about your warning. I've lost some weight again since meeting you, so I guess I gotta admit I qualify as someone who's restricing...)
Posted by gardenergirl on October 26, 2006, at 22:34:54
In reply to Any idea if one can see it without getting HBO? » Dr. Bob, posted by Racer on October 26, 2006, at 12:20:20
Heck, I don't even have digital. Still an analog gal with dial up internet...
:)
Posted by Jost on October 27, 2006, at 18:28:34
In reply to devastating HBO documentary THIN, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
I get HBO, for reasons not yet evident to me (I've had it for a couple of months). well except Bil Maher.
I'm not sure I'll watch that documentary, but I'll look for it, and try.
Jost
Posted by wood_wire on November 15, 2006, at 18:01:01
In reply to devastating HBO documentary THIN, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
I wrote this review about THIN after I saw it at a film festival and posted it on LiveJournal about a month ago, in response to another review. There is an interesting thread that goes along with it but here is the crux of my argument for not recommending the film to anyone with an Eating Disorder and why I question the intent of the film altogether...
The women in this film, though filmed with a lot of compassion, become completely alienated and objectified in this, third person, doctor vs. patient drama. The patients are portrayed as being "mentally ill" (sorry girls, not your fault) frail and helpless and very abnormal. It's similar to everything else we see about Eating Disorders in the media lately . It shows extreme examples of Anorexia/Bulimia. a little shocking coming from Lauren Greenfield, who is really well respected in the post modern/feminist realm after her photo book, Girl Culture. My jaw literally dropped open in the first 5 minutes when a woman in a hospital gown, all skeletal, gets on the scale and they show how much she weighs - yuk! didn't i just see that on the 11 o'clock news? yes, very "honest" and "raw" but ultimately - I think your average person will not see it as a disease that is part of the world they live in everyday, which it is. Also, it is a behavioral "how-to" and provides a menu of drugs and procedures for losing weight, in case you might have missed one. They also talk about the women's actual weights, like numbers (hello?), and they show that highly controversial, don't-try-this-at-home body tracing assignment (we did that at the partial hospitalization place I went to and it was such a disaster). Anyway the film borders on being irresponsible. Be warned.
the rest of the thread can be seen here:
http://community.livejournal.com/ed_ucate/619665.html
Posted by ClearSkies on November 18, 2006, at 16:52:02
In reply to THIN documentary, posted by wood_wire on November 15, 2006, at 17:58:31
Hi, and welcome to babble. I added a notice about your post that it might be triggering to those here who have an ED.
Thanks for your review; I saw the documentary last night and was unable to watch the show in its entirety.
ClearSkies
Posted by Racer on November 18, 2006, at 16:52:02
In reply to THIN documentary, posted by wood_wire on November 15, 2006, at 17:58:31
Just for the record, this was sent out by ANAD -- the National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders:
"This statement will be posted in our Winter newsletter, but it seems that many of you are interested and would like to know our position as of now. We welcome any of your personal comments about the film. I saw the film at the Chicago Film Festival with our former PR Director, Annie Hayashi. I found the film to be extremely moving and powerful. It brought me to tears. I, personally, appreciated Lauren's honesty. We were able to participate in a Question and Answer session with Lauren after the film. We were able to get a word in about ANAD and pass on business cards. Lauren will be adding ANAD as a link on her website, www.thindocumentary.com. She offered a true depiction of the lives of some women who struggle almost continually with an eating disorder. However, I would not want those who are struggling to lose hope. ANAD's statement reaffirms that there IS hope, and women and men DO recover.
I hope this finds everyone well.
Peace and Sincerity,Amanda Elliott
Support Group DirectorANAD - National Association of Anorexia Nervosa and Associated Disorders"
Posted by wood_wire on November 18, 2006, at 16:52:02
In reply to ANAD's position on the film, posted by Racer on November 16, 2006, at 14:27:32
another one for the record....
Renfrew's Position on the Documentary “Thin”
The Renfrew Center was the setting for the groundbreaking documentary “Thin,” premiering November 14th on HBO. Directed by acclaimed photographer Lauren Greenfield, who has chronicled the topic of eating disorders in the past, the film takes viewers on an emotional and at times harrowing journey. It gives them the opportunity to experience the illness first-hand through the stories of four women.
We made the decision to participate in this project because we believe “Thin” will spread awareness about eating disorders and help the public better understand this complex and often misunderstood disease. We have experienced first-hand how news media stories help to shed light on this topic and often prompt individuals in need of treatment, or their families, to come forward and seek help.
Before filming began, patients were fully informed about the project and consent was obtained from those who chose to participate. Staff developed a separate treatment track where cameras were allowed to ensure the privacy of those patients who chose not to participate or were not approved clinically. Our professional team met with both groups of patients on a daily basis to help process the project. Patients who were participating were given the opportunity to stop the cameras at any point during the process. In addition, during the course of the filming both patients and staff exercised the right to remove cameras from sensitive therapy sessions.
After hundreds of hours of filming many patients over a 6-month period, Lauren Greenfield and HBO chose the four women who were ultimately highlighted in the film, without any input from Renfrew.
As is often the case, in order to tell a compelling story, “Thin” simplified the treatment process and focused on highly dramatic moments centering on food and symptoms rather than on the nurturing relationships staff have with patients. Many important elements of our treatment program are entirely omitted or minimally included – such as group therapy, dance and movement, psychodrama, and art therapy.
The potential for real and lasting recovery is not evident in this documentary. If the film highlighted more than 4 patients in our community, viewers would have seen a much more hopeful outcome on recovery. At Renfrew we know that recovery is possible and does happen, as it has for many of the 45,000 patients we have treated over the past 21 years.
Despite its limitations, “Thin” still makes a valuable contribution to the public dialogue on eating disorders. We encourage you to use this film to initiate discussion of eating disorders as a life-threatening, public health issue.
1-800-RENFREW • www.renfrewcenter.com
Residential & Outpatient Programs For Anorexia, Bulimia, Binge Eating & Body Image Issues
Philadelphia & Bryn Mawr, PA • Ft. Lauderdale, FL • New York City • Northern NJ • Southern CT
Posted by zazenducky on November 18, 2006, at 16:52:27
In reply to Renfrew's position on the film, posted by wood_wire on November 16, 2006, at 15:42:30
Why are we doing this on the medication board?
I found it ironic that the reviewer chose to say that the staff were overweight and speculate that the anorexics made them and everyone feel slovenly.
Renfrew didn't come off too well did it? I wonder if they think any publicity is good publicity?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------November 14, 2006
TV Review | 'Thin'
Yes, You Can Be Too Thin, and Treatment Can Be Heavy-Handed
By VIRGINIA HEFFERNAN
“Thin” could have been “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” for women, a rousing parable about the extinction of individual souls by American institutions.But the HBO production, which appears tonight, is a documentary by a compassionate and detached photographer, and not a novel by an inflamed polemicist, and thus its point of view is more passive-aggressive than Ken Kesey’s.
That’s O.K. The upthrown hands of the filmmaker, Lauren Greenfield, come through anyway: clearly the treatment for anorexia, even at the Renfrew Center in Florida, one of the plushest eating-disorders clinics in the country, is exasperating. Infuriating, even.
Women and girls are tossed out of Renfrew when their insurance runs out, or for trumped-up boarding-school-style infractions of rules that have nothing to do with putting on weight and leading joyful lives, and everything to do with tyranny and convoluted recovery-movement styles of deploying power. “Thin” is a melodrama. Every viewer should put aside his or her feelings about anorexia and try to imagine being shipped to a place like this for a habit turned obsessive and destructive — work, exercise, housecleaning — and see how the institutional condescension might come across.
Nurse Ratched’s frank wickedness would almost be a relief in the context of the fake sympathy displayed here. During their stay at this dopey, well-meaning place, the emaciated patients are treated to patronizing encouragement, a capricious merits-and-demerits system and open contempt.
These impressionable patients are also force-fed weird jargon about the primacy of the “community” (officious nurses, patients, orderlies, therapists and nutritionists they have to endure for months at most) and its “safety.” Many don’t seem to mind this, although the viewer can’t help wishing that they had more food and fun, and fewer lectures and tribunals.
Moreover, the “integrity” of the patients, which mostly means their willingness to rat out fellow inmates for common young-women stuff like swearing, smoking in the bathroom, getting tattoos and trading prescription pills, is constantly called into question. It’s exhausting. And after all this restraining of their evil ways, the women can only conclude that they are undisciplined, depraved and out of control, though to look at their gaunt forms and hear about their seriousness of purpose, you can hardly imagine that willpower is what they lack.
Ms. Greenfield shows many scenes that are out of view of the staff. We see Brittany’s lunch with her mother, who talks about nothing but her own food restrictions. There’s Polly’s trip to the tattoo parlor, where the tattooist advises her to eat six small meals a day if she wants to lose weight. And finally there’s Alisa’s laborious puke session as soon as she’s discharged. These scenes strongly suggests that Renfrew is missing the point.
The biggest problem at the hospital may be the profoundly simpleminded responses of the staff to the patients. One staff member calls a patient a “bad seed”; another calls a patient “sneaky,” and says, “I don’t trust her as far as I can throw her.”
Why do these so-called professionals talk like carping schoolmarms? Anorexics notoriously inspire annoyance in other people; it’s not clear why. Maybe, in their self-discipline, they make the rest of us feel slovenly. (Interestingly, many of the staff members are overweight.) Or maybe it’s just depressing to see someone do herself in.
But people who treat anorexics must overcome that distaste. It’s not just Mr. Kesey’s heroic madmen who deserve our patriotic sympathies for their anti-institutionalism. As “Thin” makes clear, the quirky girls with their calorie obsessions and their steadfast determination to resist life’s imperatives are impressively powerful too.
The rare moments when the patients smile suggest that a decent therapist or a friend might be able to help these women without so much chastisement. Brittany clearly enjoys the food mischief of her mother; maybe they come together in less destructive, but equally vain, pursuits, like makeup or shopping.
When Polly and Shelly flop around on a bed together, they seem joyful. Clearly both need some irreverent slumber-party friendships. And when the beautiful and charismatic Alisa talks in a kind of solemn, self-assured way about life’s lessons, she becomes happy. HBO’s Web site, HBO.com, says she has recovered (after a post-Renfrew relapse) and become a teacher. Like little else here, that seems absolutely right.
Posted by Poet on November 19, 2006, at 18:00:15
In reply to devastating HBO documentary THIN, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
I've never been in residential treatment for an eating disorder, but since I am bulimic I think I can comment on *Thin* both from the perspective of someone who has an ED and someone who studied documentary film.
No one featured got my sympathy, identification with body image issues, yes, feeling compassion for them- no. I never got the feeling from any of the three women age 25, 28 and 30 featured that they honestly tried to help themselves. These womwn came off looking like rebelious girls at a very expensive boarding school. In some respects the 15-year-old was the most mature, at least, she worried about how much it was costing and that it was a waste of time for her to be there.
The staff at Renfrew receive little sympathy from me, too. They come out looking like they try and try, but what can you do with these uncooperative patients? Seemed like the prevaling attitude of the staff was, we care about you, but we can't wait for the insurance to run out so we can kick you out. Or wait for you to violate a rule, in the case of the 29-year-old, and give you the boot. They had said that she, Polly, was a trouble maker more than once in the staff meetings.
What really bothers me about *Thin* is that the director failed to get me to care about the subject matter, which is a shame, since I should have identified with a person with an ED and I didn't. Frankly, I was offended that people without knowledge of EDs, who watched it, would think that because I have an ED I am sullen and selfish and juvenile like the women featured were. I also understand the high cost of mental health treatment and fear that this documentary made it look like ED programs are a waste of time. In other words, don't get treatment, it won't help. I doubt this was the message the documentary maker wanted to send, but it's how I received it.
Poet
Poet
Posted by Jost on November 21, 2006, at 21:54:20
In reply to Poet's Comments- Trigger, posted by Poet on November 19, 2006, at 18:00:15
I saw the film tonight, and my first reaction is that I found it rather baffling.
I felt disconnected from the women and the subject, as if it were one of almost incomprehensible strangeness. It was a bit like an anthropological film, showing a tribe whose rituals and beliefs one couldn't penetrate or capture fully. I had almost no sense of being inside the experience-- or that anyone who worked at Renfrew's was empathically connected to the women. (I'm assuming they were, and it didn't come across to me.) I had to wonder, also at times, as the review points out, because many of the staff were quite overweight-- yet sat there stonefaced as the women talked about how unbearable it would be to be "fat." Or when women were forced to leave because their insurance ran out-- there was no reaction. Everything was treated as utterly banal. That type of stony non-response might be therapeutic, in their view, but it was hard to understand how that sort of mask would be.
Even though EDs are enigmatic or hard to treat, that didn't seem the point. Perhaps it was, I don't know.
One of the therapists said, perhaps somewhat portentously, that one patient felt that she had experienced things that were "unspeakable." This was the only moment when the film seemed to acknowledge that there was any problem, particularly, any emotional or spiritual problem, to be addressed. Yet even that felt somehow flat.
More often, it suggested that there were rules to be followed, or unappetizing meals to be forced down, strictures to followed or avoided.
So how the treatment at Renfrew was thought to help--or what the inner world of the women was--almost was not even in question. You just watched; they just went through motions.
It's true, there was a sort of austere angst pervading the film.
But I felt more estranged than disturbing-- everything was made ordinary or overly abstracted. (There were two short disturbing scenes that I personally didn't watch-- but , although that made it a bit more wrenching, it doesn't fundamentally change what I think.)
Jost
Posted by philyra on November 24, 2006, at 10:25:56
In reply to Re: Poet's Comments- Trigger, posted by Jost on November 21, 2006, at 21:54:20
i watched the film a couple of nights ago, and while i agree that it didn't do much to stir much straightforward empathy or concern for the subjects, i haven't been able to get the film out of my head for the last couple of days. ultimately i think it's powerful and uncomfortably honest, if not educational in the way that we might want it to be.
i think the film helped me understand some of the feelings i had when a close friend's anorexia got out of control a few years ago. i had so much anger and frustration with her because she wouldn't "let" me help her in the ways i knew how. it also has helped me understand - and objectify, a little bit - my own struggles with restricting. just seeing these women on the screen who have such difficulty overcoming a deadly illness made something click for me. i can't really explain what that something is, but i do feel like i finally got what a herculean effort it is to overcome an eating disorder and why my friend couldn't just talk it through with me, march herself off to therapy, start eating again, do everything she "could" to heal herself.
i do think the renfrew staff didn't come off well. i think it's probably a function of editing (we saw them at their most curt and abbreviated), but i also wonder about burnout. when i was hospitalized for depression i thought it would be a loving, nurturing experience. it was at times (i got lucky), but the staff was pretty mechanized, too. i'm not saying it's right, but i can understand why seeing people at their worst day after day, resisting help, could make a person erect some serious boundaries. it's about working in an institution rather than one-on-one therapy, maybe. another reason it's best to get treatment before getting to the inpatient stage if you can?
i agree, it would have been helpful to see patients struggle with underlying issues. we don't get any hints of what shelly's "unspeakable" is. people who aren't at all educated about ED might look at this film and think it just comes out of the blue, rather than being connected to other issues and processes. i also think the credits should have included a help line for people suffering or who know someone suffering.
ultimately i think the film is really problematic, even objectifying, and really powerful and moving at the same time.
philyra
Posted by 2beheard on December 3, 2006, at 14:18:09
In reply to Re: Poet's Comments- Trigger, posted by Jost on November 21, 2006, at 21:54:20
I totally agree with your comments on Renfrew staff. Apparently you have to be flat affected and slightly overweight to work there. God forbid they actually "trigger" a patient because then they might have to deal with it out loud. Instead they shield these patients from feeling anything remotely attached to the underlying causes of their illness...and in the meantime, patients are basking in their own and in each others symptoms.
Renfrew's approach to treating EDs is a glorified babysitting group. Therapists sit there and listen to the girls go on and on about how much they hate themselves but fail to challenge them to work through it. These patients need serious hardcore help. Not a bunch of lazy therapists listening to their problems and not doing anything about it except discussing if their weight goes up and and down a pound each day as if that is abnormal. Renfrew should be ashamed of how they represented themselves in this movie.
I do not believe these patients had nurturing relationships with their therapists like Renfrew mentioned in their posts. Those girls were screaming for love. Renfrew was only their place to do it so blatently.
> I saw the film tonight, and my first reaction is that I found it rather baffling.
>
> I felt disconnected from the women and the subject, as if it were one of almost incomprehensible strangeness. It was a bit like an anthropological film, showing a tribe whose rituals and beliefs one couldn't penetrate or capture fully. I had almost no sense of being inside the experience-- or that anyone who worked at Renfrew's was empathically connected to the women. (I'm assuming they were, and it didn't come across to me.) I had to wonder, also at times, as the review points out, because many of the staff were quite overweight-- yet sat there stonefaced as the women talked about how unbearable it would be to be "fat." Or when women were forced to leave because their insurance ran out-- there was no reaction. Everything was treated as utterly banal. That type of stony non-response might be therapeutic, in their view, but it was hard to understand how that sort of mask would be.
>
> Even though EDs are enigmatic or hard to treat, that didn't seem the point. Perhaps it was, I don't know.
>
> One of the therapists said, perhaps somewhat portentously, that one patient felt that she had experienced things that were "unspeakable." This was the only moment when the film seemed to acknowledge that there was any problem, particularly, any emotional or spiritual problem, to be addressed. Yet even that felt somehow flat.
>
> More often, it suggested that there were rules to be followed, or unappetizing meals to be forced down, strictures to followed or avoided.
>
> So how the treatment at Renfrew was thought to help--or what the inner world of the women was--almost was not even in question. You just watched; they just went through motions.
>
> It's true, there was a sort of austere angst pervading the film.
>
> But I felt more estranged than disturbing-- everything was made ordinary or overly abstracted. (There were two short disturbing scenes that I personally didn't watch-- but , although that made it a bit more wrenching, it doesn't fundamentally change what I think.)
>
> Jost
>
Posted by nolegirl23 on March 16, 2007, at 19:12:11
In reply to devastating HBO documentary THIN, posted by Dr. Bob on October 26, 2006, at 0:57:07
> Hi, everyone,
>
> I just wanted to pass this on:
>
> > Eating disorders affect five million people in the U.S., and more than 10% of those diagnosed with anorexia nervosa will die from the disease. Seeking to put a human face on these sobering statistics, acclaimed photographer Lauren Greenfield went inside a Florida treatment center to tell the stories of four women who are literally dying to be thin. The devastating HBO documentary THIN reveals what she found there - and explores the issues underlying their illness. Premieres Tuesday, November 14 at 9pm.
>
> http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/thin
>
> A caution from Dr. Beth Steinhauer is that people who are actively restricting their eating, or who still are attempting to lose weight, might be triggered by images of severely underweight people.
>
> If any of you do watch it, I'd be interested in your reactions.
>
> Bob
>Hi Dr. Bob,
About 7 months ago, I was discharged from an eating-disorder inpatient treatment facility.
As I am gaining weight, I find myself wanting retreat back into my old habits more and more every day.Then I watched that documentary. After seeing all of those underweight women, I immediately felt like a failure. I felt like I failed at being a good anorectic/bulimic because I was in recovery.
That documentary still haunts me today. It not only haunts me, but it taunts me and tempts me until I am literally face down in the toilet, trying my hardest to purge.
Seeing that documentary made me realize how badly I want my eating disorder back in my life. When people told me that I was too thin, I loved it. As long as I was too thin, than I wasn't fat.
The most striking thing about that documentary is that none of the featured women fully recovered. I f I remember correctly, they all relapsed. That gave me little hope about myself ever recovering.
All in all, I guess I wish I wouldn't have watched it. I am not 'recovered' enough to not be triggered by seeing people who are 'good at' having an eating disorder. When I see them succeed at being so thin, I feel like such a failure.
Posted by nolegirl23 on March 16, 2007, at 19:28:49
In reply to Poet's Comments- Trigger, posted by Poet on November 19, 2006, at 18:00:15
One more thing:
This documentary featured emaciated women. Yes, a majority of people with an eating disorder are very thin, but several women with ED's (predominantly bulimia) are not so emaciated.
These women seem to be less important to staff members at ED treatment facilities. One girl who was in treatment with me would cry every night because she felt like she was too fat to be in treatment. Although she has the same disease as the 50 lbs. anorectic, bulimics are looked at as less than..
Their disease is not taken as seriously, they are not as cared for and doted upon as the anorectics who are in treatment.
I found that *Thin* showcased women who were very thin when in fact, a large percent of eating disordered people do not fit into that emaciated image that comes to the mind of the less informed individual.
Most people who have little or no knowledge of eating disorders do not realize that not all eating disordered people are emaciated, and I feel that *Thin* could have made that a point in the film.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Eating | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.