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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by susan C on July 26, 2002, at 18:58:54
In reply to Re: The Sun also Rises, posted by OddipusRex on July 26, 2002, at 11:31:19
Posted by susan C on August 1, 2002, at 19:12:02
In reply to The Sun also Rises, posted by mair on July 15, 2002, at 22:16:31
Now, a question for you: Is it coincidence that we chose to read this author during the month of his birthday, the Key West contest to find the annual Hemmingway look a like and noticing TV ads for Feline Pine, a kitty litter? BTW this ad is set in Hemmingway’s home starring decendants of not Hemmingway, but 60 generations of his cat.
I know, I know, this is all painful.
mouse
Posted by Ritch on August 1, 2002, at 22:26:03
In reply to The Sun Also Rises coincidence of choice, posted by susan C on August 1, 2002, at 19:12:02
> Now, a question for you: Is it coincidence that we chose to read this author during the month of his birthday, the Key West contest to find the annual Hemmingway look a like and noticing TV ads for Feline Pine, a kitty litter? BTW this ad is set in Hemmingway’s home starring decendants of not Hemmingway, but 60 generations of his cat.
>
> I know, I know, this is all painful.
> mouse
>
>
Hi Susan,What is perhaps more darkly ironic is the fact that he (Ernest) was deeply depressed and received ECT and committed suicide. :(
I haven't started "The Sun Also Rises Just Yet". I guess I will have to start a marathon readin' this weekend.
BTW, your email address is hosed!
I just finished reading "The Fourth Hand" and it mentions Stuart Little (E.B. White) in the book. Well, hot damn!, there is a Stuart Little movie out there (haven't seen it yet), and Stuart Little is a MOUSE.coincidence?
Mitch
Posted by susan C on August 2, 2002, at 10:19:30
In reply to Re: The Sun Also Rises coincidence of choice » susan C, posted by Ritch on August 1, 2002, at 22:26:03
I don't think it will take you long to read. The Fourth Hand...hmmm, another book to read. BTW I really like Nathan Lane, who provides the voice for the cat in the second stuart little movie. I heard the first one wasnt so great. However, I am looking forward to seeing both of them: I am easily entertained. My brother named his rock band "stuart little" in the late sixties....oh my email, i did it with spaces...so it wouldn't get 'mined' it is sicl505 at hotmail.com. I did it wrong the first time. oops. I would like to hear from you.
mouse going out for mongolian bbq
Posted by trouble on August 5, 2002, at 11:49:57
In reply to Re: The Sun Also Rises coincidence of choice » Ritch, posted by susan C on August 2, 2002, at 10:19:30
I read The Sun Also Rises 18 months ago, then when finished I turned to the beginning of the book and started over, it was too amazing to let go of.
then i went to wal mart and bought the cliff notes b/c i wanted to get all i could out of the story.
on New Years Eve i went out and got drunk, quoting Brett and Jake all the way.
I think she loved him.
If there is a more hopeless love affair in american literature I have yet to read it.trouble
Posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 0:53:48
In reply to Re: The Sun Also Rises- hemingway, posted by trouble on August 5, 2002, at 11:49:57
> I read The Sun Also Rises 18 months ago, then when finished I turned to the beginning of the book and started over, it was too amazing to let go of.
> then i went to wal mart and bought the cliff notes b/c i wanted to get all i could out of the story.
> on New Years Eve i went out and got drunk, quoting Brett and Jake all the way.
> I think she loved him.
> If there is a more hopeless love affair in american literature I have yet to read it.
>
> troubleHi,
Trouble is back! :)
I am certain she loved him, however I have only gotten about 60% through the book, so don't give anything away!Mitch
Posted by jane d on August 7, 2002, at 10:29:06
In reply to Re: The Sun Also Rises- hemingway » trouble, posted by Ritch on August 6, 2002, at 0:53:48
Posted by Ritch on August 8, 2002, at 0:34:20
In reply to Uh Oh. Book due tomorrow. Time to start reading. (nm), posted by jane d on August 7, 2002, at 10:29:06
Me too!
I am about 75% done. I don't think I will have the time to finish up until this weekend, but that's cool. I won't read any posts until I am finished with it.
Mitch
Posted by susan C on August 8, 2002, at 10:14:46
In reply to Re: Uh Oh. Book due tomorrow. Time to start reading. » jane d, posted by Ritch on August 8, 2002, at 0:34:20
Posted by susan C on August 8, 2002, at 10:18:48
In reply to The Sun also Rises, posted by mair on July 15, 2002, at 22:16:31
I was very impatient reading The Sun Also Rises. It took a great deal of restraint to not just put it down. I kept at it, finally, I began to feel I knew who was who and not be totally lost in the dialog. Then I lost my way with the french and the 1920's cultural language. Eventually, I skipped to the end to find out what happened, and I realized not much time had elapsed. None of the characters had 'developed' as far as I could see. In addition, it hit me that they were all drunks. I know Hemmingway was an alcoholic, but that is about it. I have not studied, nor read any of his work since High School when I read the Old Man and the Sea. This observation prompted me to count the number of pages where there was at least one reference to 'go get a drink', 'drunk', 'wine', 'bar', you get the idea. I found every third page or so, on average, contained references to alcoholic consumption. The first part of the book, had multiple references on every page. Another part of this observation, is I reacted to this book in the same way I react to movies from the forties and fifties, and, perhaps the sixties (The Rat Pack) where the entire movie consists of people smoking cigarettes and drinking, clink clink. I turned it off.
I think this was a horrible story, poorly written to stand the test of time and I look forward to the next book we pick.Perhaps, now having written all this, I am predjudiced myself, prefering and identifying with novels written within the time frame I have lived.
Now, a question for you: Is it coinsidence that we read this author during the month of his birthday, the Key West contest to find the annual Hemmingway look a like and noticing TV ads for Feline Pine? This ad is set in Hemmingway's home with decendants of not Hemmingway, but 60 generations of his cats.....
a strained mouse
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 8, 2002, at 15:56:18
In reply to Re: The Sun also Rises my book report, posted by susan C on August 8, 2002, at 10:18:48
Mouse, congratuations on your fortitude. I'll have to do this from memory, since I read that book in highschool or college. I also remember that everyone was constantly drinking in that book! I think it was a bad influence on me.
Also, the woman was just this surface, an object of desire and hate. It creeped me out.
I generally have trouble with classics too. I just don't have the patience to get past the language/cultural barrier.
-Tabitha
Posted by Ritch on August 11, 2002, at 13:45:31
In reply to Re: The Sun also Rises my book report, posted by susan C on August 8, 2002, at 10:18:48
> I was very impatient reading The Sun Also Rises. It took a great deal of restraint to not just put it down. I kept at it, finally, I began to feel I knew who was who and not be totally lost in the dialog. Then I lost my way with the french and the 1920's cultural language. Eventually, I skipped to the end to find out what happened, and I realized not much time had elapsed. None of the characters had 'developed' as far as I could see. In addition, it hit me that they were all drunks. I know Hemmingway was an alcoholic, but that is about it. I have not studied, nor read any of his work since High School when I read the Old Man and the Sea. This observation prompted me to count the number of pages where there was at least one reference to 'go get a drink', 'drunk', 'wine', 'bar', you get the idea. I found every third page or so, on average, contained references to alcoholic consumption. The first part of the book, had multiple references on every page. Another part of this observation, is I reacted to this book in the same way I react to movies from the forties and fifties, and, perhaps the sixties (The Rat Pack) where the entire movie consists of people smoking cigarettes and drinking, clink clink. I turned it off.
> I think this was a horrible story, poorly written to stand the test of time and I look forward to the next book we pick.
>
> Perhaps, now having written all this, I am predjudiced myself, prefering and identifying with novels written within the time frame I have lived.
>
> Now, a question for you: Is it coinsidence that we read this author during the month of his birthday, the Key West contest to find the annual Hemmingway look a like and noticing TV ads for Feline Pine? This ad is set in Hemmingway's home with decendants of not Hemmingway, but 60 generations of his cats.....
>
> a strained mouse
>Hi, Susan-
I finished it yesterday. There *is* a lot of drinking in there. But, it was like a vacation cruise. Certainly more interesting than the travel channel! He writes chronologically. He starts at the beginning and just walks you through the whole story in sequence-no flipping back and forth in time. It is very objective-the narration is descriptive, stark, plain, and simple. The mental pictures evoked by reading are very Mediterrannean-high contrast, bright stucco, breezy, dry, and hot. Very aesthetically low-tech, like a good photographer who was careful to keep the telephone poles out of a photograph. The whole story could have been done with half a book. He seemed impatient and almost decidedly simple, like he (the author)was himself impatient with setting the stage for the story in the first half of the book. What makes it good is the FORM that he conveys the story in. One thing that I noticed.. I don't think Hemingway got inside anybody's *head* with the narration, with the exception of Jake (and that was limited). He just *showed* you what they *did*, he doesn't make you privy to much of their thoughts, only what they SAY. When he does get into Jake's head (Jake's thoughts), it *is* fairly interesting:
.."Perhaps as you went along you did learn something. I did not care what it was all about. All I wanted to know was how to live in it. Maybe if you found out how to live in it you learned from that what it was all about."
.."Enjoying living was learning to get your money's worth and knowing when you had it."
"It's like a wonderful nightmare." (the fiesta-*life*?)
And then finally what Brett says towards the end:
"You know it makes one feel rather good deciding not to be a bitch. It is sort of what we have instead of God."Wow, a little stark, but interesting, nevertheless.
Mitch
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 5:24:05
In reply to Re: The Sun also Rises my book report » susan C, posted by Ritch on August 11, 2002, at 13:45:31
Only three posts? I feel like I should go out and read the book now. :D
Surely there was some controversy somewhere in the book that you can hotly debate until I manage to at least skim through it?
Posted by susan C on August 16, 2002, at 11:20:00
In reply to Re: Come on guys!, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 5:24:05
Posted by Ritch on August 16, 2002, at 21:22:43
In reply to Re: Come on guys!, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 5:24:05
> Only three posts? I feel like I should go out and read the book now. :D
>
> Surely there was some controversy somewhere in the book that you can hotly debate until I manage to at least skim through it?
Dinah,It really is a very short novel. I didn't get it read quickly because I was busy with other things. I think a person with an average reading speed could start it in the morning and have it finished well before bedtime in one day. I don't think there is anything really controversial in the book. About the first 2/3 of the book is setting up what he really gets into, and that might wear on some. Then there is about 80 pages of near poetry and then it's all over and wraps it up nicely. His matter-of-fact journalistic style might bug people. I can handle dialogue as long as it doesn't go on too long (except in this case). He writes in places with 2-3 pages of nothing but dialogue. He really SHOWS you things and YOUR mind makes the conclusions, he doesn't try to convince you of the validity of what is in Jake's head, you just observe the BEHAVIOR of a group of people in a specific set of cirumstances.
Mitch
Posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 22:00:47
In reply to Re: Come on guys! » Dinah, posted by Ritch on August 16, 2002, at 21:22:43
Hmmm. Maybe that's where I got the impression from whatever I read of Hemingway in high school that he was just too clever. It was probably the lack of depth or character development or something?
I'm going to go to the library tomorrow to borrow the book and read it (because darn it, I am NOT going to buy Hemingway). Perhaps it will jog my memory as to why I formed that opinion.
It's a fine line here isn't it. If we pick too long a book, we reduce the number of people who will read it. If we pick too short a book, we limit the probable discussion time. What do you think would be the best way to maximize involvement?
The discussion thread just looked so sad and lonely....
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 0:09:10
In reply to Re: Come on guys! » Ritch, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 22:00:47
If you read it I'll read it. But I'm not posting my real book report til you promise you're finished too!
Posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 7:02:02
In reply to Re: I'll make a deal with you Dinah..., posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 0:09:10
Posted by Ritch on August 17, 2002, at 10:24:18
In reply to Re: Come on guys! » Ritch, posted by Dinah on August 16, 2002, at 22:00:47
> Hmmm. Maybe that's where I got the impression from whatever I read of Hemingway in high school that he was just too clever. It was probably the lack of depth or character development or something?
>
> I'm going to go to the library tomorrow to borrow the book and read it (because darn it, I am NOT going to buy Hemingway). Perhaps it will jog my memory as to why I formed that opinion.
>
> It's a fine line here isn't it. If we pick too long a book, we reduce the number of people who will read it. If we pick too short a book, we limit the probable discussion time. What do you think would be the best way to maximize involvement?
>
> The discussion thread just looked so sad and lonely....
My book was borrowed from the library as well. I am more of a music freak than a book freak. Perhaps what bugs a lot of people about Hemingway is his *lack* of idealism-or his *idealism* is far removed from most other people's conception of how the world should be. There is a fatalistic attitude in his stuff that kind of says: "Here's the world-it can be quite cruel, and if you want to feel alive you are going to have to make things happen for yourself, sorry". I saw a humorous tee-shirt once that said: "Exercise, eat right, die anyway." Perhaps his own philosophy contributed to his depressions.Mitch
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 15:30:39
In reply to Re: Deal (cyberhandshake) (nm) » .tabitha., posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 7:02:02
I accidentally started reading Farewell to Arms first, it was deadly dull. Sun Also Rises was a great relief in comparison. Itching to post report now.
Better get reading, girl. (uh oh, is this considered "pressuring others"?) ;)
Posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 17:05:56
In reply to Re: Ha! Finished book! » Dinah, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 15:30:39
I haven't finished the book yet by a long shot, but I remember why I thought Hemingway was way too clever.
He does sketches of characters and seems to think that the sketches are the characters. A few breezy lines and he's summed up just about everyone.
I don't know if I'm explaining it at all well, but it's what really irritates me about Hemingway. I can be amused at his stories, and he is an excellent raconteur, but he leaves me feeling....
Oh I don't know. Maybe if I finish the story it will come to me.
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 20:30:49
In reply to Re: I remember now..., posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 17:05:56
I think the thing missing is he never ever gets inside anyone's head. My favorite part of books is being able to get inside the characters' heads, so he's not an author I particularly enjoy. To me he's more of a slick stylist. That kind of writing always strikes me as adolescent.
Posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 21:01:09
In reply to Re: I remember now... » Dinah, posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 20:30:49
That's exactly what I was trying to say.
(I was also wondering if his lovers were left as unfulfilled as his readers. But I guess that is rude speculation.)
Posted by .tabitha. on August 17, 2002, at 22:19:32
In reply to Re: Exactly! » .tabitha., posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 21:01:09
Well, the main character in Sun is impotent after all
Posted by Dinah on August 18, 2002, at 4:17:00
In reply to Re: I remember now..., posted by Dinah on August 17, 2002, at 17:05:56
On second thought, perhaps it wasn't rude speculation as much as it was an explanation of the feeling which I couldn't identify in my above post.
> I don't know if I'm explaining it at all well, but it's what really irritates me about Hemingway. I can be amused at his stories, and he is an excellent raconteur, but he leaves me feeling....
>
> Oh I don't know. Maybe if I finish the story it will come to me.It did come to me, in that persistent question about Hemingway's other skills. I felt led on during the whole book. Lots of warm-up, but no follow-through. His character sketches showed enough insight that I kept hoping for more, but was constantly disappointed. No doubt how not only Brett and Jake, but every darn character in the story felt. And it's true that Jake was impotent.
So I would almost believe that Hemingway was an absolutely wonderful writer to be able to cause me to feel the same frustration and disappointment that all his characters felt. Except that my recollection of my prior experience with Hemingway left the same feeling. That he promised more than he delivered, and ended up merely being clever, and as you said, a slick stylist. So unless all his books have the same theme, I don't think it likely that he intentionally caused me to feel that way.
Oddly enough, the only place in the book I didn't feel that way was in the part about the aging bullfighter who came out of retirement. While reading that part, I felt something for that fighter. And the description of the bullfighters' styles also had all the passion that the rest of the book lacked.
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