![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OldSchool on February 7, 2002, at 18:55:30
http://uk.cambridge.org/medicine/catalogue/0521593417/default.htm
Treatment-Resistant Mood DisordersEdited by Jay D. Amsterdam, Mady Hornig, Andrew A. Nierenberg
Contributors | Description | ContentsContributors
Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp, Julien Mendlewicz, Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui, T. Jeffrey White, Owen M. Wolkowitz, Victor I. Reus, Barbara B. Sherwin, Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski, Jay D. Amsterdam, Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell, Robert M. Post, Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando, Geralyn Groh-Szuba, John P. O’Reardon, Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter, Steven A. Rasmussen, William Boyer, Richard Bunt, Russell T. Joffe, David Bakish, Cynthia L. Hooper, Max Fink, Jan Scott, Robert J. DeRubeis, Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron, Barbara Geller, Paul A. Newhouse, Jaskaran Singh, Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh, Alexis Llewellyn, Jonathan E. Alpert, Isabelle T. Lagomasino, Jan Fawcett, Paul Root Wolpe, Arthur Caplan, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss, Gabriele S. Leverich
Description
While antidepressants have helped millions worldwide, a substantial proportion of patients fail to respond or remit. There is little published information available to clinicians for diagnosis and management of treatment-resistant depression, so they have had to make difficult decisions about treatment options with very limited data. The editors and their internationally distinguished team of contributors have set out to address this problem, giving a critical assessment of all aspects of treatment-resistant depression: causes, epidemiology, comorbidity, evaluation and treatment. This timely book will be invaluable to clinicians, neuroscientists, researchers and graduate students.
Chapter Contents
Preface; Part I. The Clinical Problem: 1. The characterization and definition of resistant and refractory mood disorders Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp and Julien Mendlewicz; 2. The economic impact of treatment non-response in major depressive disorders Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui and T. Jeffrey White; Part II. Biological Basis: 3. Psychoneuroendocrine aspects of refractory mood disorders Owen M. Wolkowitz and Victor I. Reus; 4. Estrogen and depressive illness in women Barbara B. Sherwin; 5. Immunologic factors in refractory depression Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski and Jay D. Amsterdam; 6. Structural and functional brain imaging in treatment-resistant depression Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell and Robert M. Post; 7. Abnormalities in sleep and brain function in refractory mood disorders Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando and Geralyn Groh-Szuba; Part III. Treatment Approaches: 8. Overview of treatment-resistant depression and its management John P. O'Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 9. Drug combination strategies Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter and Steven A. Rasmussen; 10. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression William Boyer and Richard Bunt; 11. Thyroid augmentation Russell T. Joffe; 12. Conventional and second generation monoamine oxidase inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression David Bakish and Cynthia L. Hooper; 13. Electroconvulsive therapy in treatment-resistant depression Max Fink; 14. Cognitive therapy and psychosocial interventions in chronic and refractory mood disorders Jan Scott and Robert J. DeRubeis; 15. Chronic and refractory mood disorders in childhood and adolescence Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron and Barbara Geller; 16. Treatment-resistant depression in the elderly Paul A. Newhouse and Jaskaran Singh; 17. Management of treatment-resistant depression during pregnancy and the postpartum period Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh and Alexis Llewellyn; 18. Psychiatric comorbidity in treatment-resistant depression Jonathan E. Alpert and Isabelle T. Lagomasino; 19. Medical disorders and treatment-resistant depression John P. O’Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 20. Suicide in treatment-resistant depression Jan Fawcett; 21. Ethical issues in research and treatment of patients with mood disorders Paul Root Wolpe and Arthur Caplan; Part IV. Treatment Algorithms: 22. Preliminary treatment algorithms for refractory bipolar depression Robert M. Post, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss and Gabriele S. Leverich; Index.
Price: GBP 65.00
Page updated: 22 January 2002
ISBN: 0521593417
Binding: Hardback
Size: 254 x 183 mm
Pages: 552
Weight: 1.346kg
Figures: 10 half-tones 1 colour plate 39 tables 8 graphs 13 figuresIn stock
Published: 28 June 2001
Read this book about treatment resistant mood disorders. Its the ONLY book Ive ever seen written specifically about TRD. Authored by a a couple noted psychiatrists, Jay Amsterdam and Andrew Nierenberg. Nierenberg is reputed to be an authority on treatment resistant mood disorders.I have not read this book myself as I dont have the money right now to get it, but I have every intention of buying it and reading it.
Also, Stephen Stahl books are always good when it comes to psychopharmacology. I have one of his books Essential Psychopharmacology of Depression and Bipolar Disorder and its pretty good. Easy to read, explains stuff in easily understood language.
Posted by djmmm on February 8, 2002, at 21:59:29
In reply to Here is the book you need to read, posted by OldSchool on February 7, 2002, at 18:55:30
>
>
>
> http://uk.cambridge.org/medicine/catalogue/0521593417/default.htm
>
>
> Treatment-Resistant Mood Disorders
>
> Edited by Jay D. Amsterdam, Mady Hornig, Andrew A. Nierenberg
>
>
> Contributors | Description | Contents
>
> Contributors
> Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp, Julien Mendlewicz, Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui, T. Jeffrey White, Owen M. Wolkowitz, Victor I. Reus, Barbara B. Sherwin, Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski, Jay D. Amsterdam, Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell, Robert M. Post, Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando, Geralyn Groh-Szuba, John P. O’Reardon, Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter, Steven A. Rasmussen, William Boyer, Richard Bunt, Russell T. Joffe, David Bakish, Cynthia L. Hooper, Max Fink, Jan Scott, Robert J. DeRubeis, Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron, Barbara Geller, Paul A. Newhouse, Jaskaran Singh, Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh, Alexis Llewellyn, Jonathan E. Alpert, Isabelle T. Lagomasino, Jan Fawcett, Paul Root Wolpe, Arthur Caplan, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss, Gabriele S. Leverich
> Description
> While antidepressants have helped millions worldwide, a substantial proportion of patients fail to respond or remit. There is little published information available to clinicians for diagnosis and management of treatment-resistant depression, so they have had to make difficult decisions about treatment options with very limited data. The editors and their internationally distinguished team of contributors have set out to address this problem, giving a critical assessment of all aspects of treatment-resistant depression: causes, epidemiology, comorbidity, evaluation and treatment. This timely book will be invaluable to clinicians, neuroscientists, researchers and graduate students.
>
>
> Chapter Contents
> Preface; Part I. The Clinical Problem: 1. The characterization and definition of resistant and refractory mood disorders Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp and Julien Mendlewicz; 2. The economic impact of treatment non-response in major depressive disorders Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui and T. Jeffrey White; Part II. Biological Basis: 3. Psychoneuroendocrine aspects of refractory mood disorders Owen M. Wolkowitz and Victor I. Reus; 4. Estrogen and depressive illness in women Barbara B. Sherwin; 5. Immunologic factors in refractory depression Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski and Jay D. Amsterdam; 6. Structural and functional brain imaging in treatment-resistant depression Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell and Robert M. Post; 7. Abnormalities in sleep and brain function in refractory mood disorders Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando and Geralyn Groh-Szuba; Part III. Treatment Approaches: 8. Overview of treatment-resistant depression and its management John P. O'Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 9. Drug combination strategies Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter and Steven A. Rasmussen; 10. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression William Boyer and Richard Bunt; 11. Thyroid augmentation Russell T. Joffe; 12. Conventional and second generation monoamine oxidase inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression David Bakish and Cynthia L. Hooper; 13. Electroconvulsive therapy in treatment-resistant depression Max Fink; 14. Cognitive therapy and psychosocial interventions in chronic and refractory mood disorders Jan Scott and Robert J. DeRubeis; 15. Chronic and refractory mood disorders in childhood and adolescence Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron and Barbara Geller; 16. Treatment-resistant depression in the elderly Paul A. Newhouse and Jaskaran Singh; 17. Management of treatment-resistant depression during pregnancy and the postpartum period Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh and Alexis Llewellyn; 18. Psychiatric comorbidity in treatment-resistant depression Jonathan E. Alpert and Isabelle T. Lagomasino; 19. Medical disorders and treatment-resistant depression John P. O’Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 20. Suicide in treatment-resistant depression Jan Fawcett; 21. Ethical issues in research and treatment of patients with mood disorders Paul Root Wolpe and Arthur Caplan; Part IV. Treatment Algorithms: 22. Preliminary treatment algorithms for refractory bipolar depression Robert M. Post, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss and Gabriele S. Leverich; Index.
>
>
>
>
> Price: GBP 65.00
>
> Page updated: 22 January 2002
>
> ISBN: 0521593417
> Binding: Hardback
> Size: 254 x 183 mm
> Pages: 552
> Weight: 1.346kg
> Figures: 10 half-tones 1 colour plate 39 tables 8 graphs 13 figures
>
> In stock
>
>
> Published: 28 June 2001
>
>
> Read this book about treatment resistant mood disorders. Its the ONLY book Ive ever seen written specifically about TRD. Authored by a a couple noted psychiatrists, Jay Amsterdam and Andrew Nierenberg. Nierenberg is reputed to be an authority on treatment resistant mood disorders.
>
> I have not read this book myself as I dont have the money right now to get it, but I have every intention of buying it and reading it.
>
> Also, Stephen Stahl books are always good when it comes to psychopharmacology. I have one of his books "Essential Psychopharmacology of Depression and Bipolar Disorder" and its pretty good. Easy to read, explains stuff in easily understood language.we may be on the same page, eric (no pun intended)... im not terribly interested in reading memoirs, or someone elses experience...I would rather read about advances in psychopharmacology, or human neurochemistry..my life was a sob story for far too long, why would I want to read about someone elses?
Posted by trouble on February 8, 2002, at 23:23:44
In reply to Re: Here is the book you need to read, posted by djmmm on February 8, 2002, at 21:59:29
> >
> >
> >
> > http://uk.cambridge.org/medicine/catalogue/0521593417/default.htm
> >
> >
> > Treatment-Resistant Mood Disorders
> >
> > Edited by Jay D. Amsterdam, Mady Hornig, Andrew A. Nierenberg
> >
> >
> > Contributors | Description | Contents
> >
> > Contributors
> > Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp, Julien Mendlewicz, Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui, T. Jeffrey White, Owen M. Wolkowitz, Victor I. Reus, Barbara B. Sherwin, Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski, Jay D. Amsterdam, Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell, Robert M. Post, Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando, Geralyn Groh-Szuba, John P. O’Reardon, Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter, Steven A. Rasmussen, William Boyer, Richard Bunt, Russell T. Joffe, David Bakish, Cynthia L. Hooper, Max Fink, Jan Scott, Robert J. DeRubeis, Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron, Barbara Geller, Paul A. Newhouse, Jaskaran Singh, Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh, Alexis Llewellyn, Jonathan E. Alpert, Isabelle T. Lagomasino, Jan Fawcett, Paul Root Wolpe, Arthur Caplan, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss, Gabriele S. Leverich
> > Description
> > While antidepressants have helped millions worldwide, a substantial proportion of patients fail to respond or remit. There is little published information available to clinicians for diagnosis and management of treatment-resistant depression, so they have had to make difficult decisions about treatment options with very limited data. The editors and their internationally distinguished team of contributors have set out to address this problem, giving a critical assessment of all aspects of treatment-resistant depression: causes, epidemiology, comorbidity, evaluation and treatment. This timely book will be invaluable to clinicians, neuroscientists, researchers and graduate students.
> >
> >
> > Chapter Contents
> > Preface; Part I. The Clinical Problem: 1. The characterization and definition of resistant and refractory mood disorders Daniel Souery, Olivier Lipp and Julien Mendlewicz; 2. The economic impact of treatment non-response in major depressive disorders Jeffrey S. McCombs, Glen L. Stimmel, Rita L. Hui and T. Jeffrey White; Part II. Biological Basis: 3. Psychoneuroendocrine aspects of refractory mood disorders Owen M. Wolkowitz and Victor I. Reus; 4. Estrogen and depressive illness in women Barbara B. Sherwin; 5. Immunologic factors in refractory depression Anna Sluzewska, Janusz Rybakowski and Jay D. Amsterdam; 6. Structural and functional brain imaging in treatment-resistant depression Terence A. Ketter, Christopher J. Bench, Mark S. George, Tim A. Kembrell and Robert M. Post; 7. Abnormalities in sleep and brain function in refractory mood disorders Martin P. Szuba, Antonio T. Fernando and Geralyn Groh-Szuba; Part III. Treatment Approaches: 8. Overview of treatment-resistant depression and its management John P. O'Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 9. Drug combination strategies Lawrence H. Price, Linda L. Carpenter and Steven A. Rasmussen; 10. Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression William Boyer and Richard Bunt; 11. Thyroid augmentation Russell T. Joffe; 12. Conventional and second generation monoamine oxidase inhibitors in treatment-resistant depression David Bakish and Cynthia L. Hooper; 13. Electroconvulsive therapy in treatment-resistant depression Max Fink; 14. Cognitive therapy and psychosocial interventions in chronic and refractory mood disorders Jan Scott and Robert J. DeRubeis; 15. Chronic and refractory mood disorders in childhood and adolescence Adelita Segovia, Kelly N. Botteron and Barbara Geller; 16. Treatment-resistant depression in the elderly Paul A. Newhouse and Jaskaran Singh; 17. Management of treatment-resistant depression during pregnancy and the postpartum period Zachary N. Stowe, Pamela McCreary, Claudia Baugh and Alexis Llewellyn; 18. Psychiatric comorbidity in treatment-resistant depression Jonathan E. Alpert and Isabelle T. Lagomasino; 19. Medical disorders and treatment-resistant depression John P. O’Reardon and Jay D. Amsterdam; 20. Suicide in treatment-resistant depression Jan Fawcett; 21. Ethical issues in research and treatment of patients with mood disorders Paul Root Wolpe and Arthur Caplan; Part IV. Treatment Algorithms: 22. Preliminary treatment algorithms for refractory bipolar depression Robert M. Post, Mark A. Frye, Kirk D. Denicoff, Andrew Speer, Susan R. B. Weiss and Gabriele S. Leverich; Index.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Price: GBP 65.00
> >
> > Page updated: 22 January 2002
> >
> > ISBN: 0521593417
> > Binding: Hardback
> > Size: 254 x 183 mm
> > Pages: 552
> > Weight: 1.346kg
> > Figures: 10 half-tones 1 colour plate 39 tables 8 graphs 13 figures
> >
> > In stock
> >
> >
> > Published: 28 June 2001
> >
> >
> > Read this book about treatment resistant mood disorders. Its the ONLY book Ive ever seen written specifically about TRD. Authored by a a couple noted psychiatrists, Jay Amsterdam and Andrew Nierenberg. Nierenberg is reputed to be an authority on treatment resistant mood disorders.
> >
> > I have not read this book myself as I dont have the money right now to get it, but I have every intention of buying it and reading it.
> >
> > Also, Stephen Stahl books are always good when it comes to psychopharmacology. I have one of his books "Essential Psychopharmacology of Depression and Bipolar Disorder" and its pretty good. Easy to read, explains stuff in easily understood language.
>
> we may be on the same page, eric (no pun intended)... im not terribly interested in reading memoirs, or someone elses experience...I would rather read about advances in psychopharmacology, or human neurochemistry..my life was a sob story for far too long, why would I want to read about someone elses?
Posted by OldSchool on February 9, 2002, at 10:10:53
In reply to Re: Here is the book you need to read, posted by djmmm on February 8, 2002, at 21:59:29
>
> we may be on the same page, eric (no pun intended)... im not terribly interested in reading memoirs, or someone elses experience...I would rather read about advances in psychopharmacology, or human neurochemistry..my life was a sob story for far too long, why would I want to read about someone elses?Yes, I am the same way. I cannot deal with reading touchy feely sob stories about someone elses life with depression/mental illness. How droll and boring. Im more concerned with ME...with Eric and doing whatever I can do to get healthy again.
This TRD book is the only book Ive ever seen written specifically for people with treatment resistant mood disorders. I need to scrape up the money to buy it and then read it. I figure after I read it I will then know more about treatment resistant depression than most psychiatrists do. LOL
Eric
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:49:57
In reply to Re: Here is the book you need to read, posted by OldSchool on February 9, 2002, at 10:10:53
> I cannot deal with reading touchy feely sob stories about someone elses life with depression/mental illness. How droll and boring.
Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please try not to post anything that might lead others to feel put down, thanks.
Bob
PS: Follow-ups regarding posting policies should be redirected to Psycho-Babble-Administration.
Posted by manowar on February 11, 2002, at 16:17:22
In reply to Re: please be civil » OldSchool, posted by Dr. Bob on February 9, 2002, at 17:49:57
> > I cannot deal with reading touchy feely sob stories about someone elses life with depression/mental illness. How droll and boring.
>
> Different points of view are fine, and in fact encouraged, but please try not to post anything that might lead others to feel put down, thanks.
>
> Bob
Gosh Dr. Bob, isn't that being a bit harsh. My God, the man is just expressing his opinion. Why in the world would anyone think of that as a put down?
Please, don't turn in to the mind police.Tim
Posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2002, at 3:02:05
In reply to Re: please be civil » Dr. Bob, posted by manowar on February 11, 2002, at 16:17:22
> > > I cannot deal with reading touchy feely sob stories about someone elses life with depression/mental illness. How droll and boring.
>
> My God, the man is just expressing his opinion. Why in the world would anyone think of that as a put down?I was afraid people might feel their lives with depression/mental illness were being called touchy feely sob stories that were droll and boring.
> Please, don't turn in to the mind police.
It's the last thing I had in mind starting out, but it is in fact a sort of "police" function that I serve. But not of your mind, you can still *think* what you like. :-)
Bob
Posted by manowar on February 13, 2002, at 20:27:46
In reply to Re: mind police, posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2002, at 3:02:05
> > > > I cannot deal with reading touchy feely sob stories about someone elses life with depression/mental illness. How droll and boring.
> >
> > My God, the man is just expressing his opinion. Why in the world would anyone think of that as a put down?
>
> I was afraid people might feel their lives with depression/mental illness were being called touchy feely sob stories that were droll and boring.
>
> > Please, don't turn in to the mind police.
>
> It's the last thing I had in mind starting out, but it is in fact a sort of "police" function that I serve. But not of your mind, you can still *think* what you like. :-)
>
> BobHi Dr. Bob,
Thanks for keeping this site in good order. It's the only BB I even bother to use, because without order there's chaos, as we all well know.
The reason I posted was not to 'bust your chops', but because I would hate to see OldSchool (Eric) feel censored. Eric is kinda cranky at times, but that's what makes him Eric. To me his crankiness is sort of an endearing quality that makes me laugh. It takes all types...
You're job has to be tough at times, and we certainly appreciate your effort. I'm sure there is no way to please everyone on a BB with such a controversial subject.
Take care,
Tim
Posted by trouble on February 20, 2002, at 9:54:38
In reply to Re: mind police, posted by Dr. Bob on February 13, 2002, at 3:02:05
> it is in fact a sort of "police" function that I serve. But not of your mind, you can still *think* what you like. :-)
>
> BobSee, that's what I mean when I say how come all the smart ones keep going to psychopharm. See what we're missing?! I bet he knows who R.D. Laing is too, while my pdoc stared at me for three minutes when I accused him of lying when he told me he'd never heard of him the day I offered to "share" the new biography. See?
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 17, 2002, at 21:24:13
In reply to Dr. Police, posted by trouble on February 20, 2002, at 9:54:38
When I'm feeling particularly awful, can't get out of bed and there's no hope in sight, I devour 'touchy feely' stories of others' pain. They are the only books that bring me comfort and make me feel like I'm not alone in this hell. I sometimes sleep curled up around them, like teddy bears. Later on when the ol' brain starts to fire up again, I'll move on to more technical theoretical neuro science stuff, but while I'm in the grip of a major depression? I don't think so. I'd just end up feeling more inadequate and dumb.
Posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 12:52:36
In reply to I like other's sob stories! » trouble, posted by BarbaraCat on March 17, 2002, at 21:24:13
> When I'm feeling particularly awful, can't get out of bed and there's no hope in sight, I devour 'touchy feely' stories of others' pain. They are the only books that bring me comfort and make me feel like I'm not alone in this hell. I sometimes sleep curled up around them, like teddy bears. Later on when the ol' brain starts to fire up again, I'll move on to more technical theoretical neuro science stuff, but while I'm in the grip of a major depression? I don't think so. I'd just end up feeling more inadequate and dumb.
Barbara Barbara Barbara, what the samheck you babblin 'bout, chickie? I like sob stories too, my own particularly, but if you want to curl up w/ a psychiatrist (and why not? they're deep men too) who can make you feel moist, validated, crazy and brilliant I'll toss you the big, sexy, barefoot, gifted, reckless, radical poet teddy bear, supercilious, babe-a-licious megalomaniac who declaimed the language of insanity as if he invented the heart of rock-n-roll, that would be, ahem, the aforementioned R. (as in Rasputin) D. Laing. If we're going to study any true soul doctors around here I was just hopin' it would be him. He was a scholar AND a bum.
BTW The Dr. Police reference I made was just a vehicle to get to Dr. Bob, I recall that being the first post where I dared to invoke His name, just y'know, stalking The Man, making my presence felt.Anyway, name one of your favorite sob stories so I can go out and buy it, I've been reading too much non-fiction lately.
love, trouble
Posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2002, at 13:25:41
In reply to then read this and weep, woman!, posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 12:52:36
Posted by trouble on March 20, 2002, at 14:05:15
In reply to From Barbara - Huh? (nm) » trouble, posted by BarbaraCat on March 20, 2002, at 13:25:41
This is the end of the thread.
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