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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 5:54:24
So a few things i tried with limited AD effect and/or considerable side effects:
Sam-E
5HTP
Tryptophan
EPA (Fish Oil)
Sarcosine
NADH
NAC
Magnesium (in different forms)
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 7:39:54
In reply to AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 5:54:24
There is nothing that can be done.
Seriously.
Posted by SLS on October 17, 2015, at 8:44:48
In reply to AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 5:54:24
> So a few things i tried with limited AD effect and/or considerable side effects:
>
> Sam-E
> 5HTP
> Tryptophan
> EPA (Fish Oil)
> Sarcosine
> NADH
> NAC
> Magnesium (in different forms)Glycine?
N-acetylcysteine (NAC)?
- Soctt
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 9:03:00
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by SLS on October 17, 2015, at 8:44:48
I listed NAC.
Wasnt there a guy on this forum who almost got killed by Glycine??
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 9:33:25
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 9:03:00
what dosage though?
Posted by SLS on October 17, 2015, at 10:19:50
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 9:03:00
> I listed NAC.
Oops. Sorry.
The only concern I have about NAC is that it might be bad for people who have melanoma. NAC can take up to 6 months to work well for depression. It is suggested by some that it works better when combined with Lamictal - something to do with glutamate.
> Wasnt there a guy on this forum who almost got killed by Glycine??
I think Jeroen mentioned that he didn't like the way glycine affected him, but I don't recall anyone almost getting killed by it. I would ask questions on the Medication board. If someone reports bad things about glycine, ask for specific details.
You need to take into consideration your diagnosis - not just simple depression. Do you think your diagnosis is accurate?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9892253
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:27:38
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 9:33:25
Hmm i am very unsure about diagnosis.
It could also be schizophrenia AND depression or psychotic depression. It is one of the three or something in between!I went psycho on Nardil so... but i also had brief remission on Nardil of both depression and psychosis.
I dont pay much attention to diagnosis. What i need is antidepression without the risk of psychosis.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:30:50
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:27:38
I have no idea if the diagnosis is accurate.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:40:23
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:30:50
most of psychosis happened on Maoi
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 11:15:42
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 10:40:23
Posted by Tomatheus on October 17, 2015, at 20:22:00
In reply to AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics, posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 5:54:24
Lamdage,
I'm taking both vitamin D3 and the BCM-95 version of curcumin right now for what's probably an anergic depression with difficulty concentrating and excessive sleep, and for me, the two supplements seem like they might be acting in a synergistic manner without clearly worsening my psychotic symptoms. Having said this, I don't know if you'd want to try a combination of vitamin D3 and curcumin. Even though vitamin D3 isn't currently worsening my psychotic symptoms, it seemed to do so when I took it before I was taking Abilify. And curcumin has been reported to have MAOI properties, and considering that you've attributed your psychosis to MAOIs that you've taken in the past, I get the feeling that you might want to avoid curcumin.
But considering that neither curcumin nor vitamin D3 is on the list of supplements that you've tried (although I think I recall you mentioning the D3 previously), I figured that I'd mention them as possibilities. I don't know if any substance affecting the human central nervous system can be said to have a zero-percent chance of inducing or worsening psychotic symptoms, but I do think that some supplements are likely to be riskier than others. As always, looking at a supplement's potential risks as well as the potential benefits is advisable before starting a trial.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on October 17, 2015, at 22:05:44
In reply to @SLS does diagnosis matter that much? (nm), posted by Lamdage22 on October 17, 2015, at 11:15:42
I don't know how much it helps if you have the right diagnosis, but it sure doesn't help to have the wrong one. Diagnosis can help guide treatment direction, but not always forecast with certainty the success of any one treatment choice.
An MAOI is not the best choice for someone who has bipolar disorder I or schizoaffective disorder (bipolar type). However, it might be a good choice for psychotic depression. So, a misdiagnosis of psychotic depression could end up setting the stage for a psychotic reaction to an antidepressant. The only time I become psychotically manic is in association with MAOIs. This hasn't happened since I began taking Abilify. To know in advance that I was bipolar rather than the unipolar diagnosis that I had wrongly been given, I might have avoided hospitalizations. In 1987, my doctor at the time could have given me lithium in addition to Parnate in an effort to prevent a manic switch. The occurrence of mania caused my diagnosis to be revised. That's why I always try to ask what one's *current* diagnosis is. Without a way to evaluate one's biology with precision using trait markers, diagnosing mental illness must remain a fluid process.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:22:32
In reply to Re: AD supplements that are safe for schizophrenics » Lamdage22, posted by Tomatheus on October 17, 2015, at 20:22:00
Hi Tomatheus,
i do take D3...
i forgot to mention.
Rapastinel (Glyx-13) and NRX-1074 appear to not have a psychosis risk. I think it is rare but possible.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:27:52
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on October 17, 2015, at 22:05:44
i dont know if i am bipolar or unipolar. I would say most likely unipolar. Hypomania on Maoi in the beginning isnt necessarily a sign of bipolar.
I think my diagnosis works in the way that it indicates the right course of action. I know what i need and i know what to avoid.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:38:14
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:27:52
I think i an "unique".
Idk how much sense it makes to put people into those categories. They dont always fit.
Posted by SLS on October 18, 2015, at 7:44:13
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:27:52
> i dont know if i am bipolar or unipolar. I would say most likely unipolar. Hypomania on Maoi in the beginning isnt necessarily a sign of bipolar.
I don't think I said hypomania. Maybe I did. I don't remember. I think Nardil is known to do this. However, an antidepressant-induced switch to psychotic mania is a different story. While people here would debate me on this, I think it is likely that it be a sign of bipolar when a mood illness is already present. There is, in my opinion, a bipolar spectrum. Some people will react to the same antidepressant differently, depending where along that spectrum their illness lies.
> I think my diagnosis works in the way that it indicates the right course of action. I know what i need and i know that to avoid.
If you have schizoaffective disorder, there might be a bipolar component along the bipolar spectrum rather than just having a depressive component. How do you feel and behave just before you become psychotic? Do you talk a lot or loudly? Are you expansive in your ideas? Do you have anxiety or insomnnia? Are you easily distracted and find yourself starting too many projects and finishing none?
If you have psychotic depression, you might consider a regime that includes Parnate + Lamictal + Abilify. If you have a bipolar component, you might choose to replace the Parnate with Wellbutrin. I would begin taking lithium carbonate beginning at a low dosage (300 - 450 mg) for a depressive component.
Or not.
That's just me.
Just trying to help!
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 18, 2015, at 8:13:59
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 3:38:14
> I think i an "unique".
>
> Idk how much sense it makes to put people into those categories. They dont always fit.I agree. They don't always fit into a simple rigid diagnostic structure as is depicted in the DSM III and DSM IV. However, the DSM 5 uses "dimensions" of symptoms as "qualifiers" for various mental conditions (biological or psychological or both). Some doctors still call for a bipolar spectrum as depicted by Hagop Akiskal.
I am unique, too. Each brain is unique. As I said, though, diagnosis can help as a guide to treatment direction rather than produce a certain forecast as to what treatment will provide an improvement.
I'm sure you know what helps and hurts you, but you are obviously still looking for something that will produce a full remission or something that approximates it. Keeping an open mind might help you reach your goals.
- Scott
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 8:43:24
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on October 18, 2015, at 7:44:13
Scott,
i never had true mania. Only hypomania and only the first time i took nardil. I never slept less than 7 or 8 hours even what i call initial nardil hypomania.
The worst psychosis i had, i had equally many grandiose delusions as the opposite. On Nardil.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 8:52:48
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much? » Lamdage22, posted by SLS on October 18, 2015, at 8:13:59
Lithium 300mg is on my plan (when i get on Cannabidiol).
I dont tolerate Abilify. Lamictal seemed useless to me. Parnate made me psychotic at 30mg even though i took an AP along with it.
I will do some research if Cannabidiol also helps mania.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 8:58:01
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 8:52:48
CBD doesnt help mania but i dont think i need it to. I dont know if Rapastinel (Glyx-13) or its cousin NRX-1074 can cause mania...
Didnt hear anything.
Posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 9:01:28
In reply to Re: @SLS does diagnosis matter that much?, posted by Lamdage22 on October 18, 2015, at 8:58:01
Allergan bought Naurex. Where can i hear about the progress with Glyx-13 and Nrx-1074?
There is nothing on allergans website!
This is the end of the thread.
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