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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kilo8 on September 19, 2015, at 16:58:02
I have tried 100mg Niacin so far and 100mg always make me flush no matter if on an empty stomach or with food!
But when I take 50mg I hardly get no flush at all.
I read in a book that the flush means that basically your body is getting more than it can handle right now.What does this mean? Does this mean that if even a small dose of 100mg makes me flush that I don't really have a huge need for niacin and that trying to move up to higher doses makes no sense?
I don't really want to take really high doses anyway cause I worry that it could affect the liver. Since I also take antidepressants and lamotrigine I don't know if this would be safe cause they can also affect the liver on their own.
I thought about taking 100-300mg per day. Or would such a "small" dose be too little to really do much in terms of depression?
Posted by Tomatheus on September 19, 2015, at 18:45:24
In reply to Question about Niacin and flushing, posted by kilo8 on September 19, 2015, at 16:58:02
Kilo8,
I don't know for sure what the relationship is between a person's need for niacin and the extent to which a person flushes from taking the nicotinic acid version of niacin. I tend to doubt that anybody truly needs a really high dose of niacin, although I do think that for some individuals, high doses of niacin might produce therapeutic benefits in the same way that a psychiatric medication does. In my estimation, it seems that it would be hard to know for sure if you might benefit from a high dose of niacin without trying it, but you would of course also need to keep in mind that you might not be able to tolerate the flush at higher doses (and that liver problems are also probably more likely with higher doses). So, even though I think that it could be possible that you might experience benefits from niacin at higher doses, the vitamin might not be tolerable to you at such doses.
Like you, I sometimes flush from taking 100 mg of niacin (and I sometimes even flush to a lesser extent at 50 mg), although there are times that I don't flush at all. Taking niacin with food does seem to reduce the likelihood of flushing for me. Given the extent to which I flush from taking niacin, it's hard for me to comprehend how someone who flushes to the same extent that I do from the vitamin would be able to tolerate 3 g of it. I tend to think that most who take very high doses of the vitamin are much less susceptible to the flush than I am (and than how you seem to be). At present, I take 250 mg of niacin daily, divided into three separate doses (100-50-100) taken about an hour apart. To be honest, the only reason I continue to take niacin is because I have difficulty discontinuing it, not because I feel that it produces continued benefits. I still am, however, thinking of discontinuing it very, very slowly to see if discontinuing the vitamin might not be so difficult that way.
So, I don't know for sure how effective niacin at a dose ranging from 100 to 300 mg might be for depression -- at least for you. I noticed some benefits initially with niacin, which is why I decided to keep taking it, but I noticed no long-term benefits and then ran into what seemed to be withdrawal symptoms when I tried discontinuing it. I do think that anecdotal reports of 100 to 300 mg of niacin being effective for depression can be found, but I'm not sure that niacin's efficacy for depression has been demonstrated scientifically. I know that the late Dr. Abram Hoffer conducted some trials with very high doses of niacin (two trials, I think) that demonstrated efficacy for schizophrenia, but it's also my understanding that other scientists have been unsuccessful at replicating Dr. Hoffer's findings. And again, as far as depression is concerned, I'm not sure that the efficacy of niacin has been demonstrated, although I could easily be overlooking something.
Whether trying 100 to 300 mg of niacin would be worthwhile for you would be hard for me to say. I personally regret having tried the nicotinic acid version of niacin because I find it to be difficult to discontinue, but I seem to be rather unique in my troubles with discontinuing niacin. I tend to have doubts about niacin's efficacy for depression (especially in the long run), but at the same time, I can't say for sure that you wouldn't respond to the vitamin, either.
Well, this seems to sum up my thoughts on the ideas and questions that you put forth. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions about what I've written.
Tomatheus
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 21, 2015, at 18:19:52
In reply to Re: Question about Niacin and flushing » kilo8, posted by Tomatheus on September 19, 2015, at 18:45:24
ever tried niacinamide?
Posted by Tomatheus on September 21, 2015, at 19:44:06
In reply to Re: Question about Niacin and flushing, posted by Christ_empowered on September 21, 2015, at 18:19:52
> ever tried niacinamide?
Christ_empowered,
I'm not sure if you're asking me or Kilo8, but yes, I've taken niacinamide and noticed initial benefits similar to those I experienced when starting the nicotinic acid version of niacin. Unfortunately, I don't recall noticing long-term benefits from taking niacinamide, but then again, I don't think that I've tried dosing higher than 1 or 2 g. Also, although I think I might have noticed some discomfort when I discontinued niacinamide, I don't recall the discontinuation effects of niacinamide as being as bad as those that I've experienced with even reducing my dose of the nicotinic acid version of niacin. For whatever reason, even reducing my nicotinic acid dose by 25 mg seems to worsen my concentration and energy pretty badly for the first 24 hours or so after I lower the dose.
I do recall you (C_e) saying in your posts about your orthomolecular regimen that you take niacinamide. If you don't mind me asking, how much are you taking at present? Do you think that high doses offer benefits that lower doses don't?
Tomatheus
Posted by Christ_empowered on September 21, 2015, at 22:37:19
In reply to Re: Question about Niacin and flushing » Christ_empowered, posted by Tomatheus on September 21, 2015, at 19:44:06
hi...I take 3 grams niacinamide. Its in the form of delayed release tablets, 1.5 grams each. I take 1 in the AM and 1 in the PM.
I like it. I mean, I take a lot of supplements, but I am calmer and my meds work better. Also, B3+other stuff is supposed to reduce the TD risk, and I've been on 30mgs/Abilify for 5 years now...no TD!
Posted by Tomatheus on September 21, 2015, at 22:55:07
In reply to Re: Question about Niacin and flushing, posted by Christ_empowered on September 21, 2015, at 22:37:19
Thank you for your reply, Christ_empowered. I'm glad to hear that you seem pleased with the way that niacinamide and your other supplements are affecting you and that you haven't developed tardive dyskinesia in the time that you've spent taking your supplements alongside your Abilify. Trying 3 g of niacinamide is something that I should probably consider, at least at some point. Right now, as far as my concentration and energy are concerned, I seem to be responding to a supplement regimen that includes curcumin, vitamin C, vitamin D3, as well as the nicotinic acid version of niacin. I'll probably start a new thread with more about my regimen soon if I keep responding to it, but even if I keep responding to this regimen, tweaking it a bit (perhaps by adding niacinamide or maybe replacing my nicotinic acid form of niacin with niacinamide) might not be such a bad idea at some point.
Thanks again for your prompt reply.
Tomatheus
Posted by Lamdage22 on May 20, 2016, at 11:18:25
In reply to Re: Question about Niacin and flushing, posted by Christ_empowered on September 21, 2015, at 22:37:19
I take Centrum
http://www.amazon.de/Centrum-für-Ihn-Caplette-stk/dp/B00E6D66Y6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o09_s00
I am not a believer in overdosed vitamins.
This is the end of the thread.
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