![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 2:04:17
Hi,
I am looking to treat bipolar with supplements, primarily the depressive episodes with some mood stabilization properties. Mania isn't really a problem, at least it's few and far between and was usually brought on by other meds. I've read Magnesium, zinc, fish oil, calcium... Does anyone have a good regimen or a good source for information as far as doses and such?Thanks
Posted by Johnnybaklava on March 29, 2012, at 11:03:06
In reply to Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 2:04:17
There are so many directions you could go! Since your symptoms sound similar to mine, I could throw out some ideas. What has been working for me for a while has been phenylalanine in the morning (about 500mg). This perks me up. I also takes lots of herbs. These seem to work better for me than other stuff for some reason Gaia herbs makes a great blend for adrenal health. It has rhodiola, holy basil, ashwaganda, and a few other adaptagenic herbs that seem to also perk me up without making me speedy. I also take N-acetyl cysteine for general support, along with vitamin c, a b-complex and grape seed extract. Together, they keep me balanced and positive. At night, since insomnia has been a problem for me, I've experimented with all sorts of things, but the best and simplest seems to be melatonin. Just a couple of gram sends me off. I used to do magnesium but didn't really feel much. I might try the new l-threonine version. Oh, and sometimes I take ginkgo.
Posted by markwell on March 29, 2012, at 18:21:14
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by Johnnybaklava on March 29, 2012, at 11:03:06
I just purchased the Gaia adrenal support you mentioned. Do you take a mood stabilizer such as lithium? I'm anxious to try your suggestion.
Mark
Posted by billyho on March 30, 2012, at 0:18:10
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by Johnnybaklava on March 29, 2012, at 11:03:06
> There are so many directions you could go! Since your symptoms sound similar to mine, I could throw out some ideas. What has been working for me for a while has been phenylalanine in the morning (about 500mg). This perks me up. I also takes lots of herbs. These seem to work better for me than other stuff for some reason Gaia herbs makes a great blend for adrenal health. It has rhodiola, holy basil, ashwaganda, and a few other adaptagenic herbs that seem to also perk me up without making me speedy. I also take N-acetyl cysteine for general support, along with vitamin c, a b-complex and grape seed extract. Together, they keep me balanced and positive. At night, since insomnia has been a problem for me, I've experimented with all sorts of things, but the best and simplest seems to be melatonin. Just a couple of gram sends me off. I used to do magnesium but didn't really feel much. I might try the new l-threonine version. Oh, and sometimes I take ginkgo.
>Do you use DLphenylalanine? Does it have a come down like say ritalin or dex?
I tried nac and that was a no go. I'll have to check out the Gaia product, that would be kinda calming?Thanks!
Posted by Johnnybaklava on March 30, 2012, at 11:11:57
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by markwell on March 29, 2012, at 18:21:14
> I just purchased the Gaia adrenal support you mentioned. Do you take a mood stabilizer such as lithium? I'm anxious to try your suggestion.
> MarkThe Gaia worked for me. Not instantly. It was only after a couple of weeks I noticed I was a bit "smoother." I don't take any meds anymore. They worked for a while, but then I realized most of my problems were side-effects and I stopped. It took a while to feel balanced again, but by doing herbs and vitamins, I feel like I'm in a good place now. I don't think my issues were huge anyway, mainly sleep problems and low-to-mid depression. I would be wary of experimenting with too much if you are on a med, and if so, only one thing at a time.
Posted by Johnnybaklava on March 30, 2012, at 11:15:51
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 30, 2012, at 0:18:10
> Do you use DLphenylalanine? Does it have a come down like say ritalin or dex?
> I tried nac and that was a no go. I'll have to check out the Gaia product, that would be kinda calming?
>
> Thanks!I've alternated between a DL Phenylalanine supp and a blend called Blast (Durk and Sandy Shaw) that has, I believe, just the L- version with a bunch of vitamins and some other stuff like taurine and glycine. I take it because it has caffeine too! It's sort of like a weak, natural Red Bull in supplement form!
I don't find the Gaia adrenal blend necessarily calming. It smoothes out the rough edges. I suppose if you took more than three a day, the Holy Basil and Ashwaganda would probably chill you out. Usually, with these types of herbs, if you take a little, it gives you a more energizing effect and if you take more it's more subduing. What I love is that it addresses cortisol issues which I believe has been giving me fragmented sleep.
Posted by Hugh on March 30, 2012, at 12:34:56
In reply to Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 2:04:17
Fish oil never did much for me (I'm unipolar) but I can really feel krill oil in my brain. I've been taking magnesium l-threonate lately. It's a new form of magnesium that is better at crossing the blood-brain barrier than all other forms of magnesium. I've been getting a mood boost for about two months now from kefir, which is fermented milk.
Posted by bleauberry on April 1, 2012, at 10:11:08
In reply to Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 2:04:17
Just opinion here, but if your diagnosis of bipolar was based significantly on the fact that you had manic reactions to meds, then I would question that. Anyone, including perfectly normal and healthy, can have bizarre reactions to the ingestion of psychiatric chemicals.
For antimania mood stabilization I think extra magnesium and B5 would be important. For as-needed usage use Gaba, or Gaba with glycine. Teas or tinctures to have onhand would be lemon balm, valerian, passionflower.
Rhodiola would be a top choice for both bipolar mood stabilization and antidepressant potential.
DLPA and/or tyrosine I think would stand a better chance of targeting your type of depression better than serotonin alternatives such as 5htp or tryptophan. But the key is to begin any doses at extremely small amounts, and approach it with a longterm outlook...that is, don't take any dose large enough to "feel" in any kind of uncomfortable way, because you need to stay with it for a good trial. If that happens, it's too high. Could be as low as 12.5mg a day to as high as 500mg a day. Anyway, rhodiola and dlpa, both at doses that don't cause any problems, there is some real potential there. Opinion.
Posted by billyho on April 1, 2012, at 23:25:52
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by bleauberry on April 1, 2012, at 10:11:08
> Just opinion here, but if your diagnosis of bipolar was based significantly on the fact that you had manic reactions to meds, then I would question that. Anyone, including perfectly normal and healthy, can have bizarre reactions to the ingestion of psychiatric chemicals.
>
> For antimania mood stabilization I think extra magnesium and B5 would be important. For as-needed usage use Gaba, or Gaba with glycine. Teas or tinctures to have onhand would be lemon balm, valerian, passionflower.
>
> Rhodiola would be a top choice for both bipolar mood stabilization and antidepressant potential.
>
> DLPA and/or tyrosine I think would stand a better chance of targeting your type of depression better than serotonin alternatives such as 5htp or tryptophan. But the key is to begin any doses at extremely small amounts, and approach it with a longterm outlook...that is, don't take any dose large enough to "feel" in any kind of uncomfortable way, because you need to stay with it for a good trial. If that happens, it's too high. Could be as low as 12.5mg a day to as high as 500mg a day. Anyway, rhodiola and dlpa, both at doses that don't cause any problems, there is some real potential there. Opinion.I am very sensitive to traditional meds and have been labeled as a 'slow metabolizer'.. what dosages should I start on with
Rhodiola.
DLPA (if dlpa acts as say ritalin, then the come down will be a problem for me as i tend to become very cranky)
tyrosineI also have DHEA, any suggestion as to use or not use at say 10mg?
vit c.. would be any benefit?
Fish oil?
already taking magnesium.Thanks..
Posted by Johnnybaklava on April 4, 2012, at 11:49:16
In reply to Re: Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed... » bleauberry, posted by billyho on April 1, 2012, at 23:25:52
Tyrosine made me very cranky whereas phenylalanine didn't, for some reason.
Posted by Lao Tzu on April 5, 2012, at 6:00:22
In reply to Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 1:04:17
Calcium, magnesium, definitely fish oil are good to use. A multivitamin everyday for sure. I wouldn't use high doses of zinc for long periods of time. I tried that in the past. Definitely, look at your meds. Lamictal is a good one for depressive episodes. And you can use fish oil while taking the Lamictal. I use about 1500-2000mg of fish oil per day, but you may do better on a higher dosage. It really depends on what you can tolerate and how severe your bipolar is. I'd ask your doctor about trying some meds like Lamictal or another one, and sometimes an antidepressant can be added. Personally, I use nutrients in addition to my medicine and so far, I'm doing just fine. Just be careful not to overdose on vitamins. This can make things worse. Definitely, a good multivitamin, fish oil, a good med for depressive episodes, maybe a B-complex vitamin for energy. I don't want to recommend any specifics because everybody's situation is different and what works for one doesn't always work for another. Keep it simple, though. Don't complicate things by taking a lot of useless supplements. Most supplements out there do nothing for bipolar depression, with the exception of the ones I mentioned above. Good luck, and work with your doctor to get the symptoms under control. That's very important. Don't be afraid to ask for help. It is a hard thing to deal with alone. I know because I have schizophrenia. Take care.
Lao
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 5, 2012, at 13:17:47
In reply to Alternative Bipolar Regimen needed..., posted by billyho on March 29, 2012, at 1:04:17
I officially have Bipolar I, possibly w/ psychotic features (I mean, I have psychotic issues, I just don't know that its part of the official diagnosis).
In addition to 30 Abilify, I do a kind of souped up orthomolecular routine. The supplements don't pack enough punch to replace the Abilify, but at least I'm just on that and a PRN med, not some crazy cocktail like in the past.
Here goes the combo:
(1) 10 grams vitamin c (time-release, 5 grams 2x daily);(2) b-100 (time-release);(3) time-release niacinamide, 3grams (1.5grams x 2); (4) 1600IU natural form E+400micrograms selenium (the selenium is in the capsule--very convenient, I must say); (5) 2 grams taurine (2 caps, 1 dose); (6) 2 grams green tea extract (2 500mgs caps x2); (7) 30mgs OptiZinc (supposedly a "superior" form of zinc. On permasale at vitacost).Try www.doctoryourself.com for tips, info, links, ideas you can google, etc.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.