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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:53:47
I'm thinking that perhaps I am not as pyroluric as I thought. I tend to do very well with high dose B6, but the zinc just makes me tired and sluggish, so the last few days I've been weaning myself off zinc and I seem to be feeling better. I stick to a program of other nutrients including, Vitamins C and E, selenium, Cal/Mag, B1, B2, B6, GABA, and essential fatty acids. I think zinc may have been the problem for me. The GABA is a key nutrient because it dampens the stimulation caused by high dose B6. If you take too much B6 you can actually feel too energized, so the GABA works to balance out the energy somewhat. The key is to find the right dosage of B6 for you that takes away the depression. My target dose seems to be 200mg per day of B6, no more, no less.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:56:09
In reply to Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:53:47
I will post my results over the next week or so regarding the elimination of zinc from my regimen. Will I feel depressed without it? I am not sure, but I don't think so. I seem to have more energy without it.
Lao
Posted by johnny baklava on April 7, 2011, at 12:12:11
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:56:09
I was in a similar situation, virtually certain I had pyroluria, so I experimented by taking zinc and B6. The zinc, initially, seemed to help but I had to take it right before bed or else it would make me depressed. I can't take a lot as it seems to interfere with sleep somewhat at higher doses. I just add it maybe twice a week as taking it more than a few nights seems to make me a little aggravated, as if it's affecting my hormones. But I did notice feeling a bit more alert during the day after having taken it at night. I take 50mg of P-5-P during the day and I think it helps. I definitely noted a positive affect on mood initially, almost a prozac feeling, but now I don't really notice a difference but keep taking it nonetheless.
Posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 15:30:54
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by johnny baklava on April 7, 2011, at 12:12:11
If you respond well to B6, you might increase the dose to a tolerable level. I thought I only needed 100mg per day, but later found out that my depression was much better at 200mg per day. However, that being said, high doses of B6 can cause an overstimulated feeling, almost like having too much energy. That's why I take some GABA to balance out the stimulation caused by the B6. They work well together. I had to experiment to try to find the right dosage of GABA. I concluded that I only needed 500mg in the late afternoon, and it would still be in my system the following day. If I take 750mg of GABA, I get sluggish the next day and the B6 doesn't feel as energizing. So you'd have to play around with dosages of both nutrients until it feels right. I gave up on P5P. Initially, it seems to help mood, but it loses its effect after a few days, and then I realize all I need to do is raise my B6 levels to a tolerable dosage.
Lao
Posted by qqqsimmons on April 7, 2011, at 20:23:12
In reply to Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:53:47
zinc always to create a bit of mania in me. feels like norepinephrine and maybe dopamine increase? definitely stimulating. perhaps a slight testosterone increase too...my response may be atypical though...and/or these effects may be temporary before the body adjusts to the higher zinc level???
Posted by johnny baklava on April 8, 2011, at 13:43:32
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by qqqsimmons on April 7, 2011, at 20:23:12
I think zinc definitely affects my testosterone too. For a few days it's OK but then I get a little "agro." And, regarding B6, I thought that p-5-p was simply a more digestible form of B6? I mean, it is B6, right? When I take the pyrodoxine or whatever form, it makes me a little tense. If I take it at night, I tend to wake up more, whereas I don't get that reaction with the p-5-p.
Posted by bleauberry on April 10, 2011, at 6:53:49
In reply to Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Lao Tzu on April 7, 2011, at 9:53:47
That's interesting. The body is complex there is no way to know what is going on with your zinc. An interesting note....zinc is involved in the prevention of virus reproduction. Now, any time we do anything to hinder the impact of pathological organisms, guess what, it initially makes us feel worse.
So it is hard to tell....is zinc really making you feel worse, or is it positive impact on the immune system causing something like a Herxheimer reaction? Just an interesting angle to consider.
Another angle....zinc and copper are closely tied with each other, and both can result in mood symptoms. If the two are out of balance, there can be problems. Maybe by taking additional zinc it is throwing the copper/zinc ratio out of balance?
No matter, I like the way you "probe" different substances to see what happens. You do it in methodical way that makes sense.
Posted by Christ_empowered on April 19, 2011, at 10:59:56
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by bleauberry on April 10, 2011, at 6:53:49
maybe try OptZinc? Its pretty inexpensive, its supposedly really well absorbed, and I've read that it doesn't interfere with copper levels.
Posted by Lao Tzu on April 19, 2011, at 12:16:08
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Christ_empowered on April 19, 2011, at 10:59:56
Thanks for the tip on Optizinc. I've never tried it, but I think I can do okay without any zinc. I actually feel better with B6, B1, B2, vitamin E, fatty acids, and maybe a little selenium and B12.
Lao
Posted by whitmore on April 30, 2011, at 22:16:39
In reply to Re: Zinc complicates my depression, posted by Lao Tzu on April 19, 2011, at 12:16:08
Zinc can affect testosterone levels by lowering the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. It can also lower cortisol which, depending on your cortisol levels could make you feel worse of better. It can also result in heavy metals being dumped into your system when the zinc displaces them at the cell level. So the fact that it has negative effects may not indicatative of a lack of deficiency. I'm sure there are many other things going on too, but those are the 3 things I happen to have stumbled across.
This is the end of the thread.
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