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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2010, at 12:45:34
I've been wondering that you actually may be more sensitive to vitamins if you are already taking antidepressants, which may mean taking a lower dosage of certain vitamins like B vitamins, for example. Articles I've read about orthomolecular medicine do not take into consideration a person who is already on medication. Usually, higher dosages of vitamins need to be used if not on medication, but I am finding out that for myself, lower dosages of vitamins are effective when already on medication. Taking too high a dosage of any vitamin may cause problems, especially ones that help increase neurotransmitters, for example, B6, B3, B12, B9. I think you have to be mindful of the dosage you take with medication. I know, for me, I can't tolerate B3 too well just because I'm already on an antidepressant and an antipsychotic. There may be an interaction there. Just giving a heads up to all of you who take vitamins while on medication. Trying lower dosages first is my suggestion.
Lao
Posted by jjjaspar on December 13, 2010, at 21:14:25
In reply to Taking vitamins with antidepressants, posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2010, at 12:45:34
Yes, if the vitamins or other treatment are correcting an underlying problem, the medications to suppress the symptoms they no longer have may be too much -- and the person may experience overdose symptoms or side-effects, meaning the medication dosage may need to be lowered.
The problem with that can be then that lowering medications can cause withdrawal symptoms (http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2010/02/bipolar-and-off-her-meds.html).
It is all probably be best supervised by doctors collaboratively, say by an integrative medical specialist and the psychiatrist.
Posted by 49er on December 18, 2010, at 8:17:57
In reply to Taking vitamins with antidepressants, posted by Lao Tzu on December 9, 2010, at 12:45:34
> I've been wondering that you actually may be more sensitive to vitamins if you are already taking antidepressants, which may mean taking a lower dosage of certain vitamins like B vitamins, for example. Articles I've read about orthomolecular medicine do not take into consideration a person who is already on medication. Usually, higher dosages of vitamins need to be used if not on medication, but I am finding out that for myself, lower dosages of vitamins are effective when already on medication. Taking too high a dosage of any vitamin may cause problems, especially ones that help increase neurotransmitters, for example, B6, B3, B12, B9. I think you have to be mindful of the dosage you take with medication. I know, for me, I can't tolerate B3 too well just because I'm already on an antidepressant and an antipsychotic. There may be an interaction there. Just giving a heads up to all of you who take vitamins while on medication. Trying lower dosages first is my suggestion.
>
> LaoThat was definitely my experience when I was on meds and for awhile off of them.
Now, I am wondering if perhaps I may need a multi with more B in the future. Unfortunately, it seems to be very hard to find a good quality multi that has a moderate amount of B vitamins.
49er
Posted by Lao Tzu on December 29, 2010, at 11:43:17
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants » Lao Tzu, posted by 49er on December 18, 2010, at 8:17:57
In my honest opinion, multivitamins are useless for me. I tend to do much better taking higher dosages of individual vitamins and minerals. It's wrong to say that multivitamins are formulated for everyone. It just isn't true. Some people have inborn errors which will require much higher dosages of certain vitamins and minerals than are found in multivitamins. And I have proven to myself that you can take vitamins and minerals if you are already taking antidepressants. In fact, the medication works better when you take vitamins and minerals in addition. My doctor doesn't believe in taking extra vitamins. He says it is a waste of time and money, but I swear by it. I thought that maybe he was giving me good advice, but since I have improved greatly using the nutrients, I am not so sure he is 100 percent correct. He knows tons about the medication, and I admit, I wouldn't be where I am without the medication, but I don't think he knows squat about using nutrients for depression. Check out that website I posted on my new thread for December 29th. It describes the three major types of depression and the necessary nutrients for each one. I think you will be pleasantly surprised that it just might help you if you are desperate looking for answers. At least, it's a good start, and I wish I would have seen this information years ago. I'm not saying it is simple to treat depression. It isn't, but if it is mainly biochemical as it is for me, using nutrients can go a long way to helping one feel better. There is a trick to it, however. First, you need to discover specifically the exact number of nutrients that help your symptoms. Then you have to discover proper dosages. This can take a while, but don't give up! It can be frustrating in the beginning. This website will give you a starting point that I didn't have three years ago. I just experimented with all types of nutrients, and I spent a lot of money on useless products, I mean a lot of money. I always say work with the most basic vitamins and minerals before trying any strange supplements out there. You'll save yourself some money in the long run. And I do believe that for very severe chemical depression, medication might be useful as well.
Lao
Posted by jjjaspar on January 3, 2011, at 9:40:13
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants » Lao Tzu, posted by 49er on December 18, 2010, at 8:17:57
> > I've been wondering that you actually may be more sensitive to vitamins if you are already taking antidepressants, which may mean taking a lower dosage of certain vitamins like B vitamins, for example. Articles I've read about orthomolecular medicine do not take into consideration a person who is already on medication.
All I know that when our family member was on both, she was overdosing on the meds, necessitating a lower dosage of them.
>. . . Unfortunately, it seems to be very hard to find a good quality multi that has a moderate amount of B vitamins.
>
> 49erHave you looked into EMPowerplus from http://www.truehope.com ?
Posted by jjjaspar on January 3, 2011, at 9:48:29
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants))49er, posted by Lao Tzu on December 29, 2010, at 11:43:17
> In my honest opinion, multivitamins are useless for me. I tend to do much better taking higher dosages of individual vitamins and minerals. It's wrong to say that multivitamins are formulated for everyone. It just isn't true. Some people have inborn errors which will require much higher dosages of certain vitamins and minerals than are found in multivitamins. . . .
>
> LaoSo true. The people who can just take one type of supplement and eliminate symptoms are indeed quite fortunate. But many need other nutrients whether it be in the form of lithium, or in methylated B vitamins. Even pharmaceutical companies are now selling methylated B vitamins such as in the forms of "Deplin" and "Metanx." They are even being used for psychiatric diagnoses. There is even prescription fish oil being used. Finding what works best for an individual can be helped with some types of testing. It is called individualizing treatment.
Here is about specific nutrients like vitamin D and B vitamins: http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2010/12/brain-health-vitamin-d.html http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2009/09/brain-health-nutrition-and-epigenetics.html and http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/2008/06/nutrition-genes-and-brain-dysfunctions.htmlThere is also something called Functional Medicine.
Posted by 49er on January 3, 2011, at 10:32:32
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants, posted by jjjaspar on January 3, 2011, at 9:40:13
>
> >. . . Unfortunately, it seems to be very hard to find a good quality multi that has a moderate amount of B vitamins.
> >
> > 49er
>
> Have you looked into EMPowerplus from http://www.truehope.com ?Thanks, that was very thoughtful of you to post that suggestion.
Unfortunately, I am pretty much supplemented out and am wondering if I need to take a break from everything. Still debating.
49er
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 6, 2011, at 20:00:14
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants)) --Lao, posted by jjjaspar on January 3, 2011, at 9:48:29
Yes, I've heard of Deplin. Isn't that a form of folate? Unfortunately, I tend to do much worse on any type of folic acid as a percentage of schizophrenics do worse on it rather than get better. Functional Medicine. I never heard of it, but I will do a search on it because I am curious. Is it related to orthomolecular medicine, which is what I am mostly interested in? Thanks.
Lao
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 6, 2011, at 20:14:47
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants, posted by 49er on January 3, 2011, at 10:32:32
I have heard some success stories with EMPowerPlus, but I don't know how true they are. I've never tried it, and I probably would have if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves me wondering whether the manufacturers are trying to improve the health of people or turn a big profit. Most of the ingredients are what you'd find in a premium multivitamin with the exception of some other ingredients like amino acids. Doesn't sound like that would be too expensive to produce. I'm skeptical about EMPowerPlus also because in most cases you have to tailor a nutrient regimen to fit the individual, which can take time and effort to establish. However, EMPowerPlus could potentially benefit people with depression, but those with severe psychiatric illnesses shouldn't be convinced to come off their meds. That was the controversy and the reason for law suits against the company. They weren't taking any responsibility for the care of patients willing to try an alternative approach. I think it was more about profit than health care and I probably wouldn't go that route unless you've exhausted all other avenues. If it sounds fishy, it probably is. Look into orthomolecular medicine. There are some good books on the topic from Amazon, and there are some good websites with free information out there. It just might help you.
Lao
Posted by jjjaspar on January 10, 2011, at 14:55:46
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants))49er, posted by Lao Tzu on January 6, 2011, at 20:14:47
> I have heard some success stories with EMPowerPlus, but I don't know how true they are. I've never tried it, and I probably would have if it wasn't so expensive. That leaves me wondering whether the manufacturers are trying to improve the health of people or turn a big profit.
As far as I know, it is a non-profit organization. Groups are trying to gather enough money to complete a double-blind placebo controlled clinical trial. Big Pharma has their fist in so much to do with anything medical/psychiatric - just blindly give psychotropics for life.
The Child and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation (http://www.cabf.org) is non-profit and does NOT accept donations from pharmaceutical companies and doing a better study on EMPowerplus is one item on their list.
But bonafide research HAS been done on it, and IS being done on it, and many doctors have testified about it's efficacy. In the research literature, it is simply referred to as "micronutrients" but all the tests on "micronutrients" IS EmPowerplus.
Big pharma has billions to spend on devious manipulations to try to discredit something so simple.
I have two family members that have tried it. It partially helped both. A lot better than meds alone. In fact one got off meds entirely on it (with better stability than on the psychotropic meds) but after healing her gut and finding dairy made her crazy and stopped it, was able to get off the EMPOwerplus as well.
So yes, it is true, and unbelievable that more doctors don't use it. We have several doctors in our region who use EmPowerplus because yes - it helps many people.
If you go to their website - http://www.truehope.com - they have links to scientific research studies on it.
Have you read these books about real-life stories involving nutrition? - This one is about a family with 4 generations of mental illness "Nutrients Quiet the Unquiet Brain--A Four Generation Bipolar Odyssey
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0971799016?tag=itsnome-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0971799016&adid=0Z910WQGRVQKNKM6Y1QD&;
and this one is about one person, but the problem also spanned generations "It's Not Mental": http://www.amazon.com/dp/0971799016?tag=itsnome-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0971799016&adid=0Z910WQGRVQKNKM6Y1QD&;
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 11, 2011, at 14:39:55
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants))49er, posted by jjjaspar on January 10, 2011, at 14:55:46
I have not read many real-life stories like the book you mention. I am thinking about reading up on nutritional approaches for mental illness. It has always fascinated me. Any other books you liked? Thanks for your post.
Lao
Posted by jjjaspar on January 18, 2011, at 10:41:09
In reply to Re: Taking vitamins with antidepressants))jjaspar, posted by Lao Tzu on January 11, 2011, at 14:39:55
> I have not read many real-life stories like the book you mention. I am thinking about reading up on nutritional approaches for mental illness. It has always fascinated me. Any other books you liked? Thanks for your post.
>
>
> LaoAlong the lines of the book "It's Not Mental" and the book about Quieting the Unquiet mind, I like two other books about fixing the problems. One of the two has a doctor relating case stories. The other is dense - hard to get through - but is chock-full of information. Those are "Fix the Broken Brain by Healing the Body First" by Mark Hyman and "Healing the Childhood Epidemics" by Kenneth Bock & Stauth.
Here are two good websites to go to:
http://drhyman.com/
and
http://itsnotmental.blogspot.com/
Posted by Lao Tzu on January 21, 2011, at 19:05:50
In reply to Nutrients / Books (To Lao), posted by jjjaspar on January 18, 2011, at 10:41:09
Thank you for the book recommendations and the links. I don't read a lot anymore, but I will keep this in mind if I decide to acquire more information on the subject.
Lao
This is the end of the thread.
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