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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on December 12, 2010, at 2:43:11
The herbal compound berberine appears to be very promising in the treatment of depression.
It posesses MAO and reuptake inhibiting like activity as well as sigma agonism and effects on cholinsterase. Not to mention the side benefit of anti-cancer, anti-diabetic, cardioprotective effects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berberine
Why don't the drug companies just stop messing around and synthesize some of this stuff for sale at the pharmacy? We've had the cures for so long now.
Posted by Phillipa on December 12, 2010, at 2:43:12
In reply to berberine, posted by linkadge on December 11, 2010, at 20:31:44
Digoxin's sourse is also natural but the drug companies got that one. When the introduced Deplin sounds like they may be leaning toward natural sources for meds. Phillipa
Posted by sigismund on December 12, 2010, at 15:23:47
In reply to berberine, posted by linkadge on December 12, 2010, at 2:43:11
In one of my herb books.....
Patients with cirrhosis often have high plasma concentrations of tyramine which can cause cardiovascular and neurological complications. An uncontrolled clinical trial investigated the effect of oral berberine on hypertyraminaemea in cirrhotic patients over several months. Oral administration of berberine (600-800mg/d) corrected this and prevented the elevation of plasma tyramine levels following chemical tyramine stimulation. This effect was probably due to inhibition of bacterial tyrosine decarboxylase in the intestine.
Posted by linkadge on December 12, 2010, at 20:27:28
In reply to Re: berberine, posted by sigismund on December 12, 2010, at 15:23:47
I really don't undertand it. I would think that if berberine was patentable, it would probably make a more effective antidepressant than most currently available agents.
I contend that modern psychiatry really has no inclination to actually seriously treat clincal depression. IF they did, there would be serious study of these agents. There are other agents too like reveratrol (with dual reuptake / MAOI action), which is highly potent in animal models of depression. Oh, with the side effect of possibly significantly reducing co-morbidity.
When I see agents like this, which get zero clinical airplay, I often wonder who actually cares about getting patients well.
Linkadge
Posted by sigismund on December 12, 2010, at 22:32:07
In reply to Re: berberine, posted by linkadge on December 12, 2010, at 20:27:28
> I often wonder who actually cares about getting patients well.
Many of us could be got well quick smart with airtickets to the Andes, coca to chew there, and long walks.
A lot of this is about population control....controlling the population of people.
I was interested in the berberine/tyramine thing because I knew someone with liver failure who was hallucinating and said 'acid is nothing on this'.
Posted by bleauberry on December 14, 2010, at 17:18:41
In reply to Re: berberine, posted by linkadge on December 12, 2010, at 20:27:28
> I really don't undertand it. I would think that if berberine was patentable, it would probably make a more effective antidepressant than most currently available agents.
With plants, there is no single isolated ingredient that does the work....it is the synergy of them all. Berberine in its natural state...whole plant or extracted coptis, oregon grape root, etc...is going to possess a lot more healing activity than isolated berberine. In the book Healing Lyme by Stephan Buhner, I was amazed to see that each plant has probably 20 to 40 different ingredients in it, all of which are doing something beneficial to each other.
The magic of plants is a whole different ballgame than single molecule medicines. Willow bark for example is great pain killer, of which they isolated aspirin from it so as to make money....but the whole plant itself is far better than aspirin....but, no patent and no profit, so no deal.
Mother Nature has been at this a lot longer than we have.
You know the game.
Still though, I was totally unaware berberine had antidepressant qualities. I guess if someone is infected with something they don't realize, it will not feel good....Herxheimer die off reaction. Berberine has tested potent against a wide range of pathogenic bacteria, fungi, and viruses. If a person can perservere through a Herx reaction, days or weeks sometimes months, recognizing for what it is and not mistakenly saying its a "bad reaction" then for sure there would be green grass and happy times on the other side. Call it antidepressant maybe. I would call it healing the body of what was causing the depression.
>
> I contend that modern psychiatry really has no inclination to actually seriously treat clincal depression. IF they did, there would be serious study of these agents. There are other agents too like reveratrol (with dual reuptake / MAOI action), which is highly potent in animal models of depression. Oh, with the side effect of possibly significantly reducing co-morbidity.
>
> When I see agents like this, which get zero clinical airplay, I often wonder who actually cares about getting patients well.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
Posted by morgan miller on December 14, 2010, at 22:29:56
In reply to Re: berberine » linkadge, posted by bleauberry on December 14, 2010, at 17:18:41
>Still though, I was totally unaware berberine had antidepressant qualities. I guess if someone is infected with something they don't realize, it will not feel good....Herxheimer die off reaction. Berberine has tested potent against a wide range of pathogenic bacteria, fungi, and viruses. If a person can perservere through a Herx reaction, days or weeks sometimes months, recognizing for what it is and not mistakenly saying its a "bad reaction" then for sure there would be green grass and happy times on the other side. Call it antidepressant maybe. I would call it healing the body of what was causing the depression.
Berberine likely does have a mechanism of action that does affect neurotransmitters and is responsible for much of the antidepressant effects.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18585703
Chronic infections likely only account for no more than 30 percent of all cases of depression. Depression is mostly caused by a combination of genetic predispositions and lack of proper nurture. I don't know why this isn't more obvious to people. Also, depression is a normal part of life, just as anxiety is. Unfortunately, things like depression and anxiety get out of control and become chronic usually because of parents that are not equipped to nurture and love their children the way they need to and genetics.
Posted by morgan miller on December 15, 2010, at 13:08:19
In reply to Re: berberine, posted by morgan miller on December 14, 2010, at 22:29:56
>Chronic infections likely only account for no more than 30 percent of all cases of depression. Depression is mostly caused by a combination of genetic predispositions and lack of proper nurture. I don't know why this isn't more obvious to people. Also, depression is a normal part of life, just as anxiety is. Unfortunately, things like depression and anxiety get out of control and become chronic usually because of parents that are not equipped to nurture and love their children the way they need to and genetics.
I meant to say THINGS LIKE chronic infections probably only account for 30 percent at very most of mental illness, IMO. I actually think it is more like 20 percent. There just are not enough people out there suffering from things like lyme disease, again IMO. I'm looking forward to good research being done in this area over the next ten or twenty years so we can get a better idea of what is really going on. I think there is enough data and evidence out there now to get a pretty good idea.
Posted by bleauberry on December 18, 2010, at 16:40:52
In reply to berberine, posted by linkadge on December 11, 2010, at 20:31:44
It is also a potent antifungal and antibiotic used in Candida, yeast, Lyme, gut dysbiosis, and other hidden chronic infections I would guess its wide spectrum is a factor in any antidepressant effect it has.
It is found in several plants including Coptis root and Oregon Grape Root, and several others. Odd coincidence you mentioned this, because I just ordered some today from Thorne Research that has berberine from several different plant sources.
I had never heard of it being an antidepressant. I guess in about 5 days when it shows up in the mailbox, we shall see. Not putting any expectations into it though. Just try it and see what happens.
> The herbal compound berberine appears to be very promising in the treatment of depression.
>
> It posesses MAO and reuptake inhibiting like activity as well as sigma agonism and effects on cholinsterase. Not to mention the side benefit of anti-cancer, anti-diabetic, cardioprotective effects.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berberine
>
> Why don't the drug companies just stop messing around and synthesize some of this stuff for sale at the pharmacy? We've had the cures for so long now.
>
Posted by mogger on January 19, 2011, at 20:54:55
In reply to Re: berberine, posted by bleauberry on December 18, 2010, at 16:40:52
How is your trial of Berberine going bleauberry? Hope it is proving beneficial.
This is the end of the thread.
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