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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by 49er on November 26, 2010, at 10:59:56
Hi,
Since starting on coconut oil in addition to taking a multivitamin and fish oil capsules, I have been getting leg pains which indicates an need for more calcium and magnesium.
Unfortunately, when I took a very small amount of my liquid cal/mag/d formula this morning, I got depressed. I have read calcium affects other people in the same way.
Since the formula is the typical 2 to 1 cal/mag ratio, I am wondering if perhaps a 1 to 1 ratio would work better. As a result, I found this product and was wondering if people had experience with it or could suggest something else that would meet this requirement.
Finally, I just tried a minute amount of magnesium by itself and became hyper and agitated. So I am thinking I need a combination and it is a question of trying to figure out the right ratio.
Thanks as always for your help. I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.
49er
PS - I don't eat milk products since I feel I am allergic to them
Posted by morgan miller on November 26, 2010, at 15:57:33
In reply to Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by 49er on November 26, 2010, at 10:59:56
I don't think anything about coconut oil, fish oil or a multivitamin would cause leg pains. Unless, you are taking an unusually large amount of cononut oil or fish oil, then maybe leg pain could be a result I guess. Are you sure there isn't anything else causing the leg pain? Any recent or long term stress/depression/anxiety? Any recent changes in medication?
A need for magnesium would be more indicated by muscle cramps and spasms than muscle pain. That is not to say that upping magnesium could not relieve the pain.
Have you had your vitamin D levels checked?
>Finally, I just tried a minute amount of magnesium by itself and became hyper and agitated. So I am thinking I need a combination and it is a question of trying to figure out the right ratio.
If it is magnesium causing the agitation, that could mean that you do not need it. It still may be worth experimenting with different ratios of magnesium to calcium. I just don't think magnesium is the problem or the solution.
What multivitamin are you taking?
What is your diet like?
How much coconut oil are you taking?
How much fish oil are you taking?
This may be a question for the guys over at MindandMuscle.net. I would go over there and start a thread in the Neuroscience, Health, and Longevity forum.
Posted by 49er on November 27, 2010, at 6:45:08
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by morgan miller on November 26, 2010, at 15:57:33
> I don't think anything about coconut oil, fish oil or a multivitamin would cause leg pains. Unless, you are taking an unusually large amount of cononut oil or fish oil, then maybe leg pain could be a result I guess. Are you sure there isn't anything else causing the leg pain? Any recent or long term stress/depression/anxiety? Any recent changes in medication?
>
> A need for magnesium would be more indicated by muscle cramps and spasms than muscle pain. That is not to say that upping magnesium could not relieve the pain.
>
> Have you had your vitamin D levels checked?
>
> >Finally, I just tried a minute amount of magnesium by itself and became hyper and agitated. So I am thinking I need a combination and it is a question of trying to figure out the right ratio.
>
> If it is magnesium causing the agitation, that could mean that you do not need it. It still may be worth experimenting with different ratios of magnesium to calcium. I just don't think magnesium is the problem or the solution.
>
> What multivitamin are you taking?
>
> What is your diet like?
>
> How much coconut oil are you taking?
>
> How much fish oil are you taking?
>
> This may be a question for the guys over at MindandMuscle.net. I would go over there and start a thread in the Neuroscience, Health, and Longevity forum.Hi Morgan,
Thanks for your response.
I am not taking any medication and it is definitely not related to stress/depression/anxiety. I didn't have this problem before starting the coconut oil and that included days that I was depressed about being unemployed.
Unfortunately, due to not having insurance and being unemployed, getting my D level checked is not an option. But I am going to experiment by slowly increasing the dose and see if that helps. So I appreciate you mentioning that.
I take a basic multivitamin from X-Tend Life. I have been very careful about not taking one that had too much stuff because I found it would cause insomnia.
Regarding diet, I eat very little junk food but it isn't as varied as it could be. So that could be an issue.
I am taking about 2 TBS of coconut oil per day and around 1400mg fish oil.
Thanks, I will check out the mind and muscle site.
49er
Posted by morgan miller on November 27, 2010, at 12:15:58
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice » morgan miller, posted by 49er on November 27, 2010, at 6:45:08
Yeah I've never heard of coconut oil having that effect. 2 tablespoons a day sounds pretty reasonable also. Maybe try 1 tablespoon a day and see if that makes a difference? Coconut oil consumption creates ketones bodies that are used for energy, you may already know this. I don't see how increasing ketone bodies would produce pain.
The fish oil dose sounds reasonable too.
Yeah try upping your vitamin D for a few weeks so you can see if vitamin D might be the culprit. If the pain gets worse, or stays the same, maybe try taking a lower dose of vitamin D to see if the pain subsides. But you said you think it is the coconut oil or fish oil that is causing the pain, right?
I mentioned that depression and stress because they can both eventually cause changes in the way neurotransmitters operate, which in turn causes pain in areas of the body. I mentioned medication because if you were on medication before, and are not on medication now, your brain may be malfunctioning now in a way that you are more prone to having pain in areas of your body. Maybe now, after years of depression/stress/anxiety and medication use, you are simply experiencing sensitivities that you never had before.
Morgan
Posted by 49er on November 27, 2010, at 13:13:16
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by morgan miller on November 27, 2010, at 12:15:58
Hi Morgan,
It is definitely the coconut oil because as soon as I take some, I get leg pains which are relieved by taking a minuscule amount of the cal/mag formula. By the way, I did take 400mg of D this morning in addition to everything else and I have had one of my most productive days in spite of getting little sleep. Mood is great so I think the D may be a key piece of the puzzle.
I just think that when you take anything, you can have unusual reactions.
I have always been sensitive to alot of things. When I was on meds, I had a ear blockage when I took inisotol. I didn't find any information that said that was a reaction. But as soon as I stopped, it cleared up.
Thanks for the D suggestion as hopefully, it will continue to be helpful.
49er
> Yeah I've never heard of coconut oil having that effect. 2 tablespoons a day sounds pretty reasonable also. Maybe try 1 tablespoon a day and see if that makes a difference? Coconut oil consumption creates ketones bodies that are used for energy, you may already know this. I don't see how increasing ketone bodies would produce pain.
>
> The fish oil dose sounds reasonable too.
>
> Yeah try upping your vitamin D for a few weeks so you can see if vitamin D might be the culprit. If the pain gets worse, or stays the same, maybe try taking a lower dose of vitamin D to see if the pain subsides. But you said you think it is the coconut oil or fish oil that is causing the pain, right?
>
> I mentioned that depression and stress because they can both eventually cause changes in the way neurotransmitters operate, which in turn causes pain in areas of the body. I mentioned medication because if you were on medication before, and are not on medication now, your brain may be malfunctioning now in a way that you are more prone to having pain in areas of your body. Maybe now, after years of depression/stress/anxiety and medication use, you are simply experiencing sensitivities that you never had before.
>
> Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on November 27, 2010, at 21:45:17
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice » morgan miller, posted by 49er on November 27, 2010, at 13:13:16
Weird that coconut oil does this to you. I'm curious to know the reason why. Why are you taking coconut oil? Are there any benefits you notice from taking coconut oil?
I hope it's the vitamin D that made you feel better. If it is, hopefully it will continue to help.
Posted by 49er on November 28, 2010, at 4:41:47
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by morgan miller on November 27, 2010, at 21:45:17
> Weird that coconut oil does this to you. I'm curious to know the reason why. Why are you taking coconut oil? Are there any benefits you notice from taking coconut oil?
>
> I hope it's the vitamin D that made you feel better. If it is, hopefully it will continue to help.HI Morgan,
The coconut oil improves the brain fog I was experiencing.
I got the idea after reading an account by a doctor who put her husband on it who was suffering from progressive dementia. Obviously, I don't have that but because the issue involved a brain malfunction, I felt it might work and I was right.
I might try not taking it just to see if the D alone can keep the improvement.
49er
Posted by morgan miller on November 28, 2010, at 12:59:40
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by 49er on November 28, 2010, at 4:41:47
> > Weird that coconut oil does this to you. I'm curious to know the reason why. Why are you taking coconut oil? Are there any benefits you notice from taking coconut oil?
> >
> > I hope it's the vitamin D that made you feel better. If it is, hopefully it will continue to help.
>
> HI Morgan,
>
> The coconut oil improves the brain fog I was experiencing.
>
> I got the idea after reading an account by a doctor who put her husband on it who was suffering from progressive dementia. Obviously, I don't have that but because the issue involved a brain malfunction, I felt it might work and I was right.
>
> I might try not taking it just to see if the D alone can keep the improvement.
>
> 49er
>
>Yeah I know that coconut oil produces ketone bodies that are a good replacement for sugar as energy for the brain. That's cool that it is helping to clear up the fog.
Morgan
Posted by Lao Tzu on November 30, 2010, at 9:17:37
In reply to Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by 49er on November 26, 2010, at 10:59:56
I think for some people, like myself, a 1:1 ratio works better. Personally, I take all of my calcium and magnesium at bedtime because it helps me sleep better. I take both together, 500mg of each and my depression is better the next day. Everybody's different, though. Some need more or less of magnesium and/or calcium. My mother takes her magnesium and calcium during the day, and she's fine. I just prefer to take it at bedtime because the combination makes me sleepy. I tried taking all different dosages and was trying to take more calcium than magnesium. This didn't work for me. A 1:1 ratio definitely worked out best for me. If you're going to try a 1:1 ratio, make sure you get good quality supplements, preferably chelated forms of magnesium and calcium. Stay away from magnesium oxide. I believe it is inferior to other forms. I never did as well on it than magnesium citrate. There are some supplements on the market that are 1:1 ratio and some that are 2:1 ratio. Like me, you may be getting more calcium than you need with a 2:1 ratio. I had feelings of depression when I was getting too much calcium. I think Blue Bonnet has a good Cal/Mag supplement, which is a 1:1 ratio. Check it out. It's a little expensive, though. $18.00 a bottle, which I think is a bit too much for minerals. NOW brand has a good magnesium citrate, and you can combine this with a standard cal/mag supplement that is a 2:1 ratio. Just take the extra magnesium with it to get a 1:1 ratio.
Lao
Posted by 49er on December 18, 2010, at 8:13:48
In reply to Re: Calcium/Magnesium Advice, posted by Lao Tzu on November 30, 2010, at 9:17:37
> I think for some people, like myself, a 1:1 ratio works better. Personally, I take all of my calcium and magnesium at bedtime because it helps me sleep better. I take both together, 500mg of each and my depression is better the next day. Everybody's different, though. Some need more or less of magnesium and/or calcium. My mother takes her magnesium and calcium during the day, and she's fine. I just prefer to take it at bedtime because the combination makes me sleepy. I tried taking all different dosages and was trying to take more calcium than magnesium. This didn't work for me. A 1:1 ratio definitely worked out best for me. If you're going to try a 1:1 ratio, make sure you get good quality supplements, preferably chelated forms of magnesium and calcium. Stay away from magnesium oxide. I believe it is inferior to other forms. I never did as well on it than magnesium citrate. There are some supplements on the market that are 1:1 ratio and some that are 2:1 ratio. Like me, you may be getting more calcium than you need with a 2:1 ratio. I had feelings of depression when I was getting too much calcium. I think Blue Bonnet has a good Cal/Mag supplement, which is a 1:1 ratio. Check it out. It's a little expensive, though. $18.00 a bottle, which I think is a bit too much for minerals. NOW brand has a good magnesium citrate, and you can combine this with a standard cal/mag supplement that is a 2:1 ratio. Just take the extra magnesium with it to get a 1:1 ratio.
>
>
> LaoHi Lao,
I am so sorry for my late response. Thank you for your post
I have been taking a coral calcium supplement from Trace Minerals Research that works great for insomnia when I can stay awake after dinner. Another post.
Taking that and increasing vitamin D dosage has pretty much made the cramps disappear.
I have heard great things about the brand you suggested and will keep it in the back of my mind in case what I am doing starts to not work.
Thanks again.
49er
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