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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Steve Q on August 1, 2010, at 22:57:19
If there is a 'where to start' thread, please point me there.I am 30 now. I got over the negative-thinking and poor perspective issues many years ago, but unfortunately low energy still plagues me. I stopped the downward spiral, but haven't come up yet energy-wise. I went to the Pfeiffer treatment center about 4 years ago, no luck. I was under-methylated but methionine hasn't been much help.
I'm currently playing again with tyrosine, but it doesn't work well, I get some anxiousness from it. I've tried zinc, p5p, other vitamins, DLPH, and recently I read on these forums about TMG and NADH, but I wasn't sure which to try first.
Adderall works, but it's obviously relief not a cure, not anything I want to be on long-term. I take it only about 3x a month on my really bad days. Coffee I drink daily, sometimes it's great, sometimes I can't feel it at all.
Is there an optimal order to try supplements in order of effectiveness?
Thanks!
Posted by Hombre on August 2, 2010, at 4:35:55
In reply to Where to Start?, posted by Steve Q on August 1, 2010, at 22:57:19
My understanding of caffeine is that it creates a state of emergency in your body and your body responds with stress hormones that mobilize glucose and fat stores and shift blood flow to where it can be used for movement as opposed to digestion and recovery. Done every once in a while, it feels exhilarating.
When caffeine stops working for me I assume it is because my adrenals are depleted and my body is no longer listening to the cry of "wolf" uttered too many times.
I find the Bs, C, zinc and magnesium helpful for energy, possibly because antidepressants increases the demand. But you should be getting energy from the food you eat and the rest you are getting...if you're able to sleep, that is. If you are eating real food and you don't have any go-juice, perhaps you are not absorbing well.
Look into (perhaps body-constitution based) food therapy and (kidney/adrenal) herbs to rebuild your burned-out body and perhaps something like meditation or yoga to tweak your nervous system so that it idles a little lower. You gotta treat yourself like an old person for a while, keeping extra warm, going to bed early, regular meals, zero stimulants and drugs. Or maybe that's like a baby. It may suck, but being tired all the time sucks the fun out of everything anyway.
Posted by Steve Q on August 2, 2010, at 11:18:35
In reply to Re: Where to Start?, posted by Hombre on August 2, 2010, at 4:35:55
Thanks for writing.It is interesting how caffeine works somedays and others not. The same happens when I occasionally have some alcohol. Sometimes it feel great, sometimes it doesn't do anything for me.
Magnesium citrate I've been taking for years, Bs and Cs as well. I even tried a juice diet, not much works.
Thanks for the diet tips, I'll look more into that.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 0:53:07
In reply to Where to Start?, posted by Steve Q on August 1, 2010, at 22:57:19
Mind and Muscle and Imminst are two great website forums to find out about things to do for health and longevity. There are many people on those sites that have the same issues you do. If you make a post on both of those websites, you will probably get some good feedback on what to do with diet, exercise, and supplements.
Posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 18:13:29
In reply to Re: Where to Start?, posted by Hombre on August 2, 2010, at 4:35:55
I would try eliminating caffeine from your daily routine as it may be exacerbating your energy issues. It might take a while for you body to adjust, but you might start feeling better after a while.
Posted by Steve Q on August 4, 2010, at 10:05:44
In reply to Re: Where to Start?, posted by morgan miller on August 3, 2010, at 18:13:29
Thanks, caffeine is unpredictable too, sometimes it works great, sometimes not. Thanks for the tips on those sites, I will go check them out.
Posted by Hombre on August 4, 2010, at 21:09:41
In reply to Re: Where to Start?, posted by Steve Q on August 4, 2010, at 10:05:44
I thought of this as I saw an old Chinese lady burning ceremonial money for her ancestors, a common practice in Chinese communities.
Energy production is like maintaining a fire. Food, rest and exercise build up the woodpile. You want the best wood you can get, so you eat the best food. Your metabolism is what turns the wood into energy. It is the fire. As long as you have a good amount of large logs and a large enough flame, the fire will stay burning with a strong, steady burn.
When the wood gets low, the flame will start to decrease. Normally, we eat our meals, take a good rest, and the next day we have enough wood to make it through another day. We can't let the fire go out completely, though, and even when we sleep the fire glows and our body continues to recover and process.
If we use stimulants it's like throwing lighter fluid or paper on the fire. We may get a nice big flare up of energy, but if there is no wood left the fire will quickly burn out. Hence "burn out".
Junk food and lack of exercise/rest (stimulus/adaptation) put artificial wood on the fire. It may burn OK, but it releases lots of noxious fumes and a chemical residue. We wouldn't want to grill over this fire or sit too close to it.
Herbs come into play if our wood and fire are out of whack. Our wood may be good, but it is too wet or too "cold". Or perhaps we are not able to cut the wood properly and get all sorts of misshapen logs that are too big, too small, not conducive to burning. We may need herbs to coax our body to process the wood correctly so it will burn steadily.
If you really want to get down to it, we also need to take care of the trees that we eventually use to make firewood. Supplements, herbs, and lifestyle are factors that influence the health of the tree and ultimately whether or not it will make good firewood. These are more long-term factors, but we cannot deny that they eventually affect our internal fire and energy.
I hope this metaphor is useful.
Posted by sigismund on August 5, 2010, at 3:36:36
In reply to Where to Start?, posted by Steve Q on August 1, 2010, at 22:57:19
Low energy?
Stop coffee and embrace the abstemious satisfactions of black and green tea?
Eat as well as you can.
Make sure you sleep well.
Get exercise every day.
Perhaps you've done that. And then?
cordyceps?
rhodiola?
deprenyl?
Hydergine?
schizandra?NADH? I though it was OK, but I didn't reorder.
TMG Never tried it, I dunno, I get it mixed up with DMGThe thing I loved was deprenyl with rhodiola, but of course it wrecked my sleep.
How do you sleep now? That's important.
Posted by Tomatheus on August 6, 2010, at 23:22:11
In reply to Where to Start?, posted by Steve Q on August 1, 2010, at 22:57:19
Steve Q,
Hello, and welcome to Psycho-Babble. I have been plagued by low energy myself for more than ten years, and I'm sorry to hear that this is also something that you're struggling with.
Considering that you're undermethylated, you might want to consider trying TMG before NADH. TMG, from what I understand, is a methyl donor, and that should be exactly what you need if you're undermethylated. You also might want to look into trying SAMe if you haven't already. I know that you've already tried l-methionine, but you may respond more favorably to SAMe than you did to l-methionine. SAMe is produced naturally in the body from methionine, and it's been shown to be an effective treatment for major depressive disorder in 13 trials comparing it to placebo and 19 trials comparing it to tricyclic antidepressants. For more information on the supplement, see:
http://www.cmellc.com/geriatrictimes/g010923.html
Good luck,
Tomatheus
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