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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 8:13:48
Just started taking this stuff 3 days ago. Took 500mg 2hrs before bed on 1st day, felt nothing & fell asleep easily. Next morning I took 1g, didn't feel anything particularly drastic, but when evening came I realised that it had been the first day in quite a while that I had felt no fatigue at all! Mmm, promissing! This morning I took 1g & will take another 500g mid afternoon. Its now lunch time & I feel no fatigue from my meds. Hope this continues!
Question: does its effects build over days or weeks?
teck
Posted by Molitor on December 18, 2007, at 17:29:26
In reply to Acetyl-L-Carnitine, posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 8:13:48
IIRC, it took a week or three for me to realize the effects. I've never felt anything from a single dose, just in retrospect I realize I felt less fatigue. I don't know if the effects are cumulative, but they might take a while to manifest.
I wouldn't say it gives me energy, but it definitely seems to alleviate fatigue. I've tried many, many things, and this is the only one that actually seems to work. It also seems like it improves endurance, as I take it right before exercise and I seem to be able to peddle on the stationary bike for longer, with less effort. Now if I could only find a supplement that makes peddling less boring...
I switched to PLCAR plus R-ALA to see how it differs, but I can't tell much difference so far, the one thing I noticed was that I started getting *severe* postural hypotension, something I usually don't have a problem with. I don't know if it's the ALA or the PLCAR or something else.
I'm also switching back to Nardil from Parnate for various reasons, so it might be hard to judge PLCAR against ALCAR. If I start getting the postural hypotension, I'm going back to ALCAR.
Presumably you should take ALA (Alpha lipoic acid) with ALCAR/PLCAR, because of mitochondria and rats and free radicals and old Cadillacs:
http://www.powersupplements.com/ala/05e5225.html
I take one, 1fast400 R-ALA 100mg capsule daily.
-Moli
Posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 17:45:17
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 18, 2007, at 17:29:26
No I dont take Alpha lipoic acid with ALCAR. Can you explain why I should. I know alot of supplements combine them in one capsule.
And what is R-ALA as opposed to ALA? Is it the R-isomer of Alpha lipoic acid?
Thanks.
teck
Posted by Molitor on December 18, 2007, at 18:15:17
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » Molitor, posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 17:45:17
According to this:
http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=457"Alpha lipoic acid [contains] 50% of the natural R-form and 50% of the unnatural S-form. Most of the therapeutic value lies in the R-form. That is the reason why people get results when they take an alpha Lipoic acid supplement."
As to why you should take (R-)ALA with ALCAR, it doesn't really make sense to me. ALCAR is supposed to be a great antioxidant, yet it's somehow crucial that you take it with another antioxidant. I don't know, (and I'd feel better if all the articles on this stuff weren't written by the people who sell it), I just want people who take ALCAR to be aware of this, especially if they intend to use it longterm.
-Moli
Posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 18:56:21
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 18, 2007, at 18:15:17
> According to this:
> http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=457
>
> "Alpha lipoic acid [contains] 50% of the natural R-form and 50% of the unnatural S-form. Most of the therapeutic value lies in the R-form. That is the reason why people get results when they take an alpha Lipoic acid supplement."
>
> As to why you should take (R-)ALA with ALCAR, it doesn't really make sense to me. ALCAR is supposed to be a great antioxidant, yet it's somehow crucial that you take it with another antioxidant. I don't know, (and I'd feel better if all the articles on this stuff weren't written by the people who sell it), I just want people who take ALCAR to be aware of this, especially if they intend to use it longterm.
>
> -Moli
>Fair enough. Anyway, there have been many studies showing the benefits of taking them both together, even popular daytime TV shows have discussed it (without mentioning brands) so I guess it makes sense to use both. Its heralded as a potent anti-aging combo, increasing memory & overall well being, especially in the elderly.
Cant see no harm in adding it, which is what I'll do.
teck
Posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 20:10:56
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 18, 2007, at 18:15:17
Hi Moli.
I just ordered these: http://www.1fast400.com/?products_id=91
A pretty good price I'd say, Works out only £15 inc postage (I'm in UK). Even if I end up taking 2 capsules/day it'll still last me 3 months!Thanks for the info!
teck
Posted by tecknohed on December 21, 2007, at 8:07:00
In reply to Acetyl-L-Carnitine, posted by tecknohed on December 18, 2007, at 8:13:48
JEEEEZ!!! This ALCAR stuff is AWSOME! This is my 6th day on it, 4th day at 1.5g/day and I have NO fatigue at all! More than that, I actually have ALOT more extra energy than I had before. Its like a stimulant, mild & realiable without a 'come-down'. It works consistantly throughout the day without ANY anxiety or jitterness. I've had NO temptation to reach for caffein. I can go to sleep any time past 9pm & fall asleep within 10 mins, as long as I take my second dose no later than 3pm. Incidentally, I stayed up all night 2 nights ago (I had alot to do) and taking an extra gram throughout the night enabled me to keep going right up untill 9pm the next day! I didn't feel 'wired' in the slightest & woke up this morning feeling refreshed (though I did sleep 12hrs).
Mind you, it has also reduced my sleep from an average 11hrs to 9hrs per night too.I have no doubt that the other nootropics I take (Idebenone & Vinpocetine) are working synergistically with it, but its the ALCAR which gives the energy.
Altogether a BIG thumbs up...so far!
Posted by Molitor on December 21, 2007, at 11:50:35
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine, posted by tecknohed on December 21, 2007, at 8:07:00
Sounds great! It's more dramatic than my experience, but like you, I have zero side effects at ~1.5-2 grams a day, although some of these bulk powders seem pretty acidic, so they might not be good for your teeth. I plan to buy a capper, any day now...
How long have you have been on Marplan? Can you differentiate the ALCAR from that MAOI kick-in sweet-spot? Are you also taking HGW? How's that going?
Posted by tecknohed on December 21, 2007, at 14:42:02
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 21, 2007, at 11:50:35
> Sounds great! It's more dramatic than my experience, but like you, I have zero side effects at ~1.5-2 grams a day, although some of these bulk powders seem pretty acidic, so they might not be good for your teeth. I plan to buy a capper, any day now...
>
> How long have you have been on Marplan? Can you differentiate the ALCAR from that MAOI kick-in sweet-spot? Are you also taking HGW? How's that going?
>
>Yeah, Alcar is certainly acidic, but I first stir mine in half a cup of water & down that, then swill my mouth round with another half cup of water after. It gets rid of the taste so I assume it gets rid of the acid too.
Cant remember exactly how long I've been on Marplan but it kicked in a long while before I started ALCAR. And so did it's side effects, one of which was some daytime sedation but ALCARs kicked that in the but!
As for the HGW, not too sure really. Last time I took it I was sleepy after 2-3 hrs. I'm gonna leave it a week, let things settle then try it again. Something tells me that it may actually act as a stress reliever more than a stimulant. First time I took it it felt like a stimulant but to be more exact IT HELPED ME COPE WITH A STRESSFULL SITUATION. I guess thats not quite the same as stimulating but had I not taken it at that time I think that I would have become overwhelmed with stress - sweating, getting irritable, shouting & throwing things, ets. The HGW seemed to avoid me getting into this state.
Once I've played around with the dose & tried it a few more times in different situations then I'll report back.teck
Posted by Molitor on December 21, 2007, at 23:32:54
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » Molitor, posted by tecknohed on December 21, 2007, at 14:42:02
I'm curious if the HGW actually helped specifically with the anorgasmia.
Here's the full text of a study I posted a while back on PLCAR/ALCAR:
http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/cgi/content/full/66/2/276
Posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2007, at 5:03:44
In reply to ALCAR, PLCAR and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 21, 2007, at 23:32:54
> I'm curious if the HGW actually helped specifically with the anorgasmia.
Problem is, every time I've taken it for anorgasmia (about 1-2hrs before sex) I've ended up getting distracted & doing something else. Or I've left it too late & one of us has fell asleep. Typical!
I'll have to plan it better, which is hard as sex is easiest when its spontaneous.
I think I might try taking less next time too, maybe 0.5g. Perhapse 1g is too much for me thus making me tired and/or making me distracted?Interesting link you posted. I'll definitely have to try the PLCAR at some point to see how it compares for myself.
Have you yourself noticed these differences of lessened mental & general fatigue between the 2?
And have you noticed any difference since you added ALA to the ALCAR, or did you take them together from the start?teck
Posted by Molitor on December 22, 2007, at 9:11:29
In reply to Re: ALCAR, PLCAR and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome » Molitor, posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2007, at 5:03:44
I can't tell any difference between ALCAR and PLCAR, but I'm also switching from Parnate to Nardil, so it's going to be hard to determine what's what. I only recently added R-ALA @ 100mg/day and haven't noticed that it's doing anything.
Neither of the *LCARs seem to help with alertness, but they certainly seem to help with fatigue, endurance, and hypersomnia. Plus, no restlessness, anxiety or overstimulation. Good stuff, I only hope it will help with Nardil's Death Fatigue.
We can't possibly be the only two people using this, I'd be interested to hear other people's results. The whole fatigue thing is hard to treat, and is unfortunately part of Depression as well as a side-effect of meds used to treat it.
-Moli
Posted by tecknohed on December 22, 2007, at 15:06:19
In reply to Re: ALCAR, PLCAR and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 22, 2007, at 9:11:29
> I can't tell any difference between ALCAR and PLCAR, but I'm also switching from Parnate to Nardil, so it's going to be hard to determine what's what. I only recently added R-ALA @ 100mg/day and haven't noticed that it's doing anything.
>
> Neither of the *LCARs seem to help with alertness, but they certainly seem to help with fatigue, endurance, and hypersomnia. Plus, no restlessness, anxiety or overstimulation. Good stuff, I only hope it will help with Nardil's Death Fatigue.
>
> We can't possibly be the only two people using this, I'd be interested to hear other people's results. The whole fatigue thing is hard to treat, and is unfortunately part of Depression as well as a side-effect of meds used to treat it.
>
> -MoliI just cant believe how well its doing for my fatigue either. OK, so stimulants work & so do activating ADs, but not without side effects and complications of thier own.
I wonder if not many people use the *LCARs simply because they cant believe how a simple supplement can help such a chronic symptom/side effect. After all, thats why it took me so long to try these nootropics. I mean, how can something you buy over the counter be better than, say, Provigil? I think thats how people (myself included) end up thinking when they've been through nearly every AD out there.When I said in an earlier post "JEEEZ this stuff is awsome" it wasn't because I felt charged full of energy but rather because I felt completely fatigue free yet also felt like I'd taken no drugs at all. THATS what felt so amazing.
Also, have you considered cutting right back on the nootropics untill you get a 'feeling' for Nardil? When Nardil first kicked in for me I had NO fatigue at all, a little daytime sedation maybe but it wasn't problematic & didn't occur if I was busy like working. Theres nothing like pure Nardil euphoria if your one of the lucky ones. Then you can re-introduce your nootropics if & when the fatigue sets in. Just thinking out loud.
When do you make the switch? Hope all goes well.
teck.
Posted by kezia on December 23, 2007, at 14:06:24
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine » Molitor, posted by tecknohed on December 21, 2007, at 14:42:02
Which is more effective - Acetyl L-Carnitine in capsule/tablet form or in the powder/liquid form?
Thanks.
Posted by tecknohed on December 23, 2007, at 14:29:34
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine - Capsules vs Powder, posted by kezia on December 23, 2007, at 14:06:24
> Which is more effective - Acetyl L-Carnitine in capsule/tablet form or in the powder/liquid form?
>
> Thanks.Depends on how much you're wanting to take. If you're planning on taking it in 100-300mg doses then capsule/tablet form would be easier. More convenient for carrying around with you too.
But theres no getting away from the fact the buying bulk powder is ALOT cheaper so you can simply stir it into a glass of water. This will help with quicker absorption too which is what you need with an amino acid like ALCAR. Take it at least half hour BEFORE food or 3hrs after on an empty stomache, or at least with a non protein drink like fruit juice.
Plus, most studies have been done using 1-2g of ALCAR so you'd need alot a pills to get these doses. Not very economical. I myself take 1.5-2g/day.For carrying around these high doses I use little 'snap bags' - the type you get street drugs in. You get them from many shops including electrical shops, but for ease you can get them from ebay. Then when you're out & about simply get a cup of water & empty the contents in & swill or stir around before downing. You can reuse the bags too, just be DISCREET when you use them as you wont want to get falsly arrested!
Also I recommend buying some digital scales from ebay. You can get them pretty cheap there. Look for ones which weigh in 0.01g divisions.
teck
Posted by Sigismund on December 29, 2007, at 1:10:59
In reply to ALCAR, PLCAR and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome » tecknohed, posted by Molitor on December 21, 2007, at 23:32:54
Forgive me if you've covered this....
Posted by kezia on January 2, 2008, at 21:41:04
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine - Capsules vs Powder » kezia, posted by tecknohed on December 23, 2007, at 14:29:34
Thanks so much for the response and the great advice! Sorry for the delay in replying.
I am likely going to try the liquid or powder form, which would allow me to tailor my dose a bit more.
> Depends on how much you're wanting to take. If you're planning on taking it in 100-300mg doses then capsule/tablet form would be easier. More convenient for carrying around with you too.
>
> But theres no getting away from the fact the buying bulk powder is ALOT cheaper so you can simply stir it into a glass of water. This will help with quicker absorption too which is what you need with an amino acid like ALCAR. Take it at least half hour BEFORE food or 3hrs after on an empty stomache, or at least with a non protein drink like fruit juice.
> Plus, most studies have been done using 1-2g of ALCAR so you'd need alot a pills to get these doses. Not very economical. I myself take 1.5-2g/day.
>
> For carrying around these high doses I use little 'snap bags' - the type you get street drugs in. You get them from many shops including electrical shops, but for ease you can get them from ebay. Then when you're out & about simply get a cup of water & empty the contents in & swill or stir around before downing. You can reuse the bags too, just be DISCREET when you use them as you wont want to get falsly arrested!
>
> Also I recommend buying some digital scales from ebay. You can get them pretty cheap there. Look for ones which weigh in 0.01g divisions.
>
> teck
Posted by Molitor on January 9, 2008, at 8:53:21
In reply to Re: Acetyl-L-Carnitine - Capsules vs Powder » tecknohed, posted by kezia on January 2, 2008, at 21:41:04
technohed's got the right idea here. I buy raw powders because they're usually a fraction of what capsules cost. But...
One problem you run into with ALCAR and PLCAR is that they tend to absorb moisture from the atmosphere. If you spill PLCAR on your counter, it will turn into a liquid within a few hours. So the raw powder might be a messy pain to carry around in little baggies in your pocket or purse.
Another option is to buy a little capsule machine:
http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=CN19
and cap them yourself from the bulk powder. That capper is supposed to be better than the one 1fast400 sells. I've never done this myself, but a lot of people do.Some of these powders can be very acidic. I don't know how this would affect your teeth over an extended period of time. At least one supplement, NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) is so acidic that I wouldn't take the powder anymore. Even after washing it down with a glass of water, baking soda solution will fizz in your mouth like a two-dollar volcano. Immediately after taking a mouthful of powders, I rinse with a baking soda solution, just to be safe. This is also good for killing any aftertaste.
You can get good deals on scales on ebay, but there's also a lot of dodgy junk scales that should be avoided. This has some info on scales:
http://www.digitalscale.com/brands.htm
I've bought from http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/ but http://www.saveonscales.com/ has some really incredible (!) deals on quality brand-name scales. They have them hidden in the "Monthly Specials" and "Closeout Items" on the left menu.
Posted by Molitor on January 9, 2008, at 8:58:41
In reply to PLCAR , sex and stuff, posted by Sigismund on December 29, 2007, at 1:10:59
Thanks. I read it when you posted it. They have subsequently redirected that URL to the Quercetin product page.
This is the end of the thread.
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