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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 30, 2007, at 8:12:17
Hey all
What exactly is Glutamic acid? How does it affect the brain, and should I be concerned about eating it in foods? I do like abit of vegemite/marmite, which are good sources of B vitamins.
Marmite for those of you unacquainted with the stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite
"As with other yeast extracts, Marmite contains free glutamic acids"
I've been reading how its got something to do with strokes/GABA and would like to know if anyone knows anything...
Kind regards
Miss Meri
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 9:15:35
In reply to Glutamic acid.....?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 30, 2007, at 8:12:17
> Hey all
>
> What exactly is Glutamic acid? How does it affect the brain, and should I be concerned about eating it in foods? I do like abit of vegemite/marmite, which are good sources of B vitamins.
>
> Marmite for those of you unacquainted with the stuff:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite
>
> "As with other yeast extracts, Marmite contains free glutamic acids"
>
> I've been reading how its got something to do with strokes/GABA and would like to know if anyone knows anything...
>
> Kind regards
>
> Miss MeriGlutamate is a neurotransmitter. Well, at least, a neuromodulator. It's excitatory, when released into a synapse. Taurine directly antagonizes it, and is usually released along with it.
When you eat a food with free glutamate, you can sometimes feel the effects. It excites the tongue's taste receptors, for example, so it is a common food additive in processed foods (as the sodium salt, MSG). Free glutamate is one of the things that gives soy sauce its flavour enhancing effects. Salt is another. Anyway, free glutamate from food can sometimes be felt in the brain as a bit of a buzz. It can cause pulse increases, and flushing, and headache. It depends on your sensitivity, and the dose ingested. "Chinese food syndrome" is glutamate sensitivity. Just take some taurine, and it goes away, BTW.
Following a stroke, excitatory amino acids are responsible for some of the damage that occurs. That's really not relevant to diet in any way. GABA also antagonizes glutamate. It's just one of the yin/yang things in the brain. Balancing acts going on all the time.
Lar
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 30, 2007, at 9:33:53
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 9:15:35
Thanks, Lar.
>GABA also antagonizes glutamate. It's just one of the yin/yang things in the brain. Balancing acts going on all the time.
I don't suppose you could explain this bit? I've never quite got to grips with antagonists, but thats partly due to brain laziness. I'm never quite sure whats the diff between agonists and antagonists.Kind regards
Meri
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 9:57:51
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....?, posted by Meri-Tuuli on March 30, 2007, at 9:33:53
> Thanks, Lar.
>
> >GABA also antagonizes glutamate. It's just one of the yin/yang things in the brain. Balancing acts going on all the time.
>
> I don't suppose you could explain this bit? I've never quite got to grips with antagonists, but thats partly due to brain laziness. I'm never quite sure whats the diff between agonists and antagonists.
>
> Kind regards
>
> MeriFrom the Greek, for contest, and later the Latin meaning contender, agonism in the biochemical sense is the activation of a receptor. It can be a term applied to the natural ligand (binding substance(s)), or to an artificial one. Anything that interferes with or completely blocks an agonist is an antagonist. There are numerous mechanisms of both agonism and antagonism. Mother Nature is devious. For example, the same substance can be an antagonist or agonist, at the same receptor, based only on concentration. We determine this by interpreting the signal given off by the receptor/ligand complex. An activation/up-regulating effect is due to agonism. A substance that blocks the effect of an agonist is an antagonist. Well, originally, those definitions held. But now we've discovered inverse agonists, substances that produce a negative signal. So, antagonists can also block negative signalling.
Here's a nice graph to consider: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_agonist
An antagonist would tend to keep the receptor response at what they label "baseline receptor" response, *despite* increasing concentrations of either a positive or negative agonist.
Of course, outcomes could lie anywhere between the two extremes.
Lar
Posted by MoparFan91 on March 31, 2007, at 17:49:55
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....? » Meri-Tuuli, posted by Larry Hoover on March 30, 2007, at 9:15:35
> > Hey all
> >
> > What exactly is Glutamic acid? How does it affect the brain, and should I be concerned about eating it in foods? I do like abit of vegemite/marmite, which are good sources of B vitamins.
> >
> > Marmite for those of you unacquainted with the stuff:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marmite
> >
> > "As with other yeast extracts, Marmite contains free glutamic acids"
> >
> > I've been reading how its got something to do with strokes/GABA and would like to know if anyone knows anything...
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > Miss Meri
>
> Glutamate is a neurotransmitter. Well, at least, a neuromodulator. It's excitatory, when released into a synapse. Taurine directly antagonizes it, and is usually released along with it.
>
> When you eat a food with free glutamate, you can sometimes feel the effects. It excites the tongue's taste receptors, for example, so it is a common food additive in processed foods (as the sodium salt, MSG). Free glutamate is one of the things that gives soy sauce its flavour enhancing effects. Salt is another. Anyway, free glutamate from food can sometimes be felt in the brain as a bit of a buzz. It can cause pulse increases, and flushing, and headache. It depends on your sensitivity, and the dose ingested. "Chinese food syndrome" is glutamate sensitivity. Just take some taurine, and it goes away, BTW.
>
> Following a stroke, excitatory amino acids are responsible for some of the damage that occurs. That's really not relevant to diet in any way. GABA also antagonizes glutamate. It's just one of the yin/yang things in the brain. Balancing acts going on all the time.
>
> Lar
>One night, I had a spicy shrimp Chinese dish (it was labeled as "spicy" based on the pepper symbol shown by it), and not long afterward, I had an OCD attack as I started going on and on and on about an issue I had (I was doing it in a very angry and over-reacting manner). My family even noted my marked obsessiveness. I had't had an OCD attack like that in a while. I ended up using some Taurine because I figured it was the MSG from food. It took a total of 2 grams of it to finally get calm again.
I definitely believe the sudden increase in OCD was due to the MSG from that dish.
Anyone ever had something like this happen before?
Posted by KayeBaby on April 3, 2007, at 11:59:18
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....? » Larry Hoover, posted by MoparFan91 on March 31, 2007, at 17:49:55
>
> One night, I had a spicy shrimp Chinese dish (it was labeled as "spicy" based on the pepper symbol shown by it), and not long afterward, I had an OCD attack as I started going on and on and on about an issue I had (I was doing it in a very angry and over-reacting manner). My family even noted my marked obsessiveness. I had't had an OCD attack like that in a while. I ended up using some Taurine because I figured it was the MSG from food. It took a total of 2 grams of it to finally get calm again.
>
> I definitely believe the sudden increase in OCD was due to the MSG from that dish.
>
> Anyone ever had something like this happen before?Yes. I started drinking whey protein for a few days in a row and then decided to treat myself to some Pad Thai from a great resturant I used to frequent. I had a totally empty stomach at the time and scarfed it down.
I went into a stupor. Had shortness of breath and anxiety. It felt like their was a vise on my diaghram, like I was physically wearing a corset or something that was compressing my ribs. I also has this feeling of tightness in my face. It felt like my eyes were bugging out.
These symptoms were not unusual but having them ALL ant once and so suddenly was.
I didn't know what was going on but I'm used to the lack of reason for my annoying symptoms that just come and go.
I just happened upon someone on the net describing an MSG reaction that he experienced due to whey plus a chinese buffet on top.
I guess the whey (free glutamates) primed me and the pad thai on an empty stomach whalloped me. I am so glad this happened though because It helped me make the connection between what I eat and how I feel.
Try brown rice and simple veggies for a couple of days and see how you feel.
Msg sensitivity is real. Over and over I can overeat msg and predictable evoke a response. For me the brain fog and crushing anxiety along with the tight face is the worst.
Peace,
Kaye
>
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2007, at 12:20:46
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....?, posted by KayeBaby on April 3, 2007, at 11:59:18
> Msg sensitivity is real. Over and over I can overeat msg and predictable evoke a response. For me the brain fog and crushing anxiety along with the tight face is the worst.
>
> Peace,
> KayeYes, but there's no reason to suffer for it. Get some taurine, and keep some with you when you eat out. In minutes, the whole group of symptoms just goes away. You'd have to match the doses (equal amounts of each), ideally, but a couple of grams of taurine ought to do the trick, most times. If not, you can just take a little more.
Lar
Posted by nolvas on April 3, 2007, at 17:34:35
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....? » KayeBaby, posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2007, at 12:20:46
Hi Larry. Is there any chance of rebound anxiety when consuming Taurine? Can it be taken on a regular basis? I've just been made redundant and the terrible anxiety and panic are back again. Feels like I'm totally stimulated as if I've consumed too much Glutamine.
How do you rate Glycine? I've read in various places it can be good to abort panic and also treat anxiety.
Posted by KayeBaby on April 3, 2007, at 18:02:58
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....? » KayeBaby, posted by Larry Hoover on April 3, 2007, at 12:20:46
Yep. I was already taking taurine but now I take it if I know I'm getting too much msg. I read that the reason that the Japanese don't have much trouble with it despite large amounts is that they eat it along with Taurine rich foods.
CoQ10 is supposed to help also.I don't think I am highly sensitive just that the whey for days + thai food was a sort of a 'perfect storm' situation. I was very glad to know it though. Every little bit helps.
All about balance, huh?
Peace,
Kaye
Posted by KayeBaby on April 3, 2007, at 18:04:22
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....?, posted by nolvas on April 3, 2007, at 17:34:35
> Hi Larry. Is there any chance of rebound anxiety when consuming Taurine? Can it be taken on a regular basis? I've just been made redundant and the terrible anxiety and panic are back again. Feels like I'm totally stimulated as if I've consumed too much Glutamine.
>
> How do you rate Glycine? I've read in various places it can be good to abort panic and also treat anxiety.I was just looking for this today. Health food store was out.
Kaye
Posted by nolvas on April 4, 2007, at 2:21:37
In reply to Re: Glutamic acid.....?, posted by KayeBaby on April 3, 2007, at 18:04:22
It's expensive in capsule form. Bulknutrition and Jomarlabs both sell Glycine in bulk powder form. (They deliver to UK and USA and other countries). I can't find a source of bulk powder Glycine in the UK. I've used both of the above places though so I can recommend them.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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