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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 14:29:04
You can make this at home!
http://www.schizophrenia.com/sznews/archives/000596.html
I bought some branched chain amino acids and tried it, and I feel it has improved my mixed mania/hypomania...
bps
Posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2007, at 14:29:04
In reply to Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphrenia, posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 10:13:22
Can you explain how this is helping you? And exactly what it does for you? Thanks Phillipa
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 14:29:04
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphrenia » bipolarspectrum, posted by Phillipa on January 20, 2007, at 11:28:15
> Can you explain how this is helping you? And exactly what it does for you? Thanks Phillipa
Hi P,
It's a shake (or pills) of 60g approximately of brahcned chain amino acids... they compete for entry to the brain with tyrosine and thereby, reduce dopamine levels...It's like an antipsychotic without the side-effects!
I don't think its a cure-all by any means... but the thinking is that you can reduce some of your other medications with this shake...
For me, it reduces my non-stop mixed mania/hypomania... calms my mind down and improves my mood short-term...
One shake seems to last 5-6 hours...
Posted by blueberry1 on January 20, 2007, at 14:29:04
In reply to Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphrenia, posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 10:13:22
What amino acids are in it?
I've tried several individual amino acids (tryptophan, 5htp, tyrosine, l-phenylalanine, dl-phenylalanine, d-phenylalanine, glutamine, glycine, taurine) and found they all had immediate effects of one kind or another. Usually good. But very short lasting and prone to almost immediate poopout. I figured maybe what I need is all the aminos at once. So I tried whey protein powder. Loaded with tyrosine, phenylalanine, tryptophan, everything. I was stunned because within 2 hours my longstanding depression and anxiety just vanished, my legs pains and cramps vanished, my fatigue turned into motivated energy, I felt socialable, it was wonderful. The next day I repeated. Nothing. Nada. The third day, nothing, nada. I don't know why, but aminos seem to poop out on me right away. I tried doubling and tripling the dose to no effect.
Your situation sounds different. I was trying to treat depression. If the trick is to squash out tyrosine for you then that seems to me like something that won't poop out.
Anyway, I was curious what aminos are in the drink?
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 17:17:53
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphrenia » bipolarspectrum, posted by blueberry1 on January 20, 2007, at 12:36:15
Hi blue,
The amino acids included are leucine, isoleucine and valine...I havent been on it longer than a few days so I can't say if it will last...
But I can't help but think that this type of therapy should really not be 'mono'... i think its a great adjunct to more conservative treatments...
I also can't help but think that time of consumption matters as well... I like to consume this drink on an empty stomach prior to eating a meal to maximimize absorption...
Here's links to the two studies demonstrating the validity of this protein drink:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=12611783&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
This one is free to see! just click on the button on top right hand cornerIts seems to have evidence to substiante it, such that the Stanley mental health group is helping to develop it as a product for commercial sale..
bps
Posted by med_empowered on January 21, 2007, at 3:28:26
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by bipolarspectrum on January 20, 2007, at 17:17:53
awesome. Where'd you get it? Or...do you make this yourself? Do you take antipsychotics, or do you find that this drink+your other meds makes neuroleptics unnecessary? Does it taste terrible?
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 21, 2007, at 20:57:00
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by med_empowered on January 21, 2007, at 3:28:26
Hi,
I just bought a tub of bcaas from a bodybuilding store and make it myself... I don't take antipsychotics... Yes, it tastes like sh*t but its palatable...Just a note, when i take a high dose of it, i get tremors just like an antipsychotic! weird, but definately in line with its so-called dopamine reducing mechanism of action..
bps
> awesome. Where'd you get it? Or...do you make this yourself? Do you take antipsychotics, or do you find that this drink+your other meds makes neuroleptics unnecessary? Does it taste terrible?
Posted by teejay on January 21, 2007, at 21:42:15
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by bipolarspectrum on January 21, 2007, at 20:57:00
Eric Bravermann called the BCAA's 'the stress relievers'.
He did note that excesses in leucine were sometimes associated with worsening psychosis but isoleucine appeared to have the opposite effect.
Sounds an interesting therapy and excess BCAA's just get turned into other aminos so nice and safe too.
My only addition to this regimine might be to add Tryptophan to it. Not quite sure why but it is mentioned by Bravermann.
Posted by med_empowered on January 21, 2007, at 22:03:29
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by teejay on January 21, 2007, at 21:42:15
so...what do I look for in a mix? Do I need to use 60grams of powder per serving?
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 22, 2007, at 9:34:58
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by med_empowered on January 21, 2007, at 22:03:29
> so...what do I look for in a mix? Do I need to use 60grams of powder per serving?
Yeah, 60g in total of branched chain amino acids... they will come in some sort of ratio between the 3, but 60g total is the aim..
I'm sure any mix is good, just make sure what you take is exlusively branched chain amino acids and no other ones, ie. a regular protein shake is not equivalent...
All health and bodybuilding stores carry BCAA's, they come in pill and powdered form.. but the pill form is expensive and they used powdered in the studies so I think powdered is a better choice..
I actually have reduced my intake down to 30g because I find the effect of 60g a little too strong in terms of giving me hand tremors...
bps
Posted by med_empowered on January 23, 2007, at 13:06:08
In reply to Re: Branched Chain Amino acid for Mania/Schizphren, posted by bipolarspectrum on January 22, 2007, at 9:34:58
does this feel a lot like an antipsychotic? I mean, will it cause the same sort of apathy and (for me) dysphoria that comes with antipsychotics? Or does it manage to control symptoms while avoiding typical neuroleptic problems?
To me it sounds kind of like a more tolerable resperine (sp?), the dopamine-depleter drug of the 50s.
Posted by bipolarspectrum on January 26, 2007, at 14:33:32
In reply to still more questions..., posted by med_empowered on January 23, 2007, at 13:06:08
> does this feel a lot like an antipsychotic? I mean, will it cause the same sort of apathy and (for me) dysphoria that comes with antipsychotics? Or does it manage to control symptoms while avoiding typical neuroleptic problems?
>
> To me it sounds kind of like a more tolerable resperine (sp?), the dopamine-depleter drug of the 50s.I would say it 'kinda' feels like an antipsychotic... but much cleaner in terms of sedation and other side effects... I don't experience dysphoria.. I do think I experience some apathy though, but more so at the 60g dose, its hard to tell..
I stopped using it for awhile but am now back on..
Try it! U've got nothing to lose...
bps
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