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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on January 12, 2007, at 20:24:45
I asked before but don't remember the answer.
Does anyone know any supplements that might increase MAO activity?
Linkadge
Posted by blueberry1 on January 13, 2007, at 0:07:54
In reply to How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 12, 2007, at 20:24:45
Increase MAO activity? You mean the opposite of MAO inhibitor?
> I asked before but don't remember the answer.
>
> Does anyone know any supplements that might increase MAO activity?
>
> Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on January 13, 2007, at 10:16:34
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by blueberry1 on January 13, 2007, at 0:07:54
Yeah, exactly. I heard that stress actually decreases MAO activity. So I was wonderung if something that promoted MAO would have effects against stress?
Just like how tianeptine is supposedly more protective than SSRI's when it comes to stress.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on January 13, 2007, at 16:24:28
In reply to How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 12, 2007, at 20:24:45
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe riboflavin (B-2) may increase MAO activity, as a cofactor or something. My experience suggests that it may work, but i'm still tinkering with it.
Like magnesium, B2 is used for migraines.
I'm interested in boosting MAO since I tend to get hypomanic from any supplement that has a side effect of MAO inhibition (e.g., quercetin).
Posted by linkadge on January 13, 2007, at 19:38:33
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by qqqsimmons on January 13, 2007, at 16:24:28
That is interesting. Supposedly a good propotion of people with migrate have low MAO, and that is perhaps why certain foods trigger migrane (like chocolate), ie. potentiation of trace amines?
So, I wonder if the effect of riboflavin on migrane has anything to do with its effects on monoamine oxidase?
Linkadge
Posted by Tomatheus on January 14, 2007, at 23:31:04
In reply to How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 12, 2007, at 20:24:45
> I asked before but don't remember the answer.
>
> Does anyone know any supplements that might increase MAO activity?Hi Linkadge,
I responded to your original post on increasing MAO activity with some thoughts on copper supplementation. Here's a link to my response:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061013/msgs/702120.html
Another type of supplement that might increase MAO activity would be something with anti-estrogenic properties. Holschneider et al. (1998) found that estrogen administration significantly decreased MAO-A activity in the hypothalamus (-28%) and amygdala (-21%) of female rats. The researchers also detected significant reductions in MAO-B activity in the liver (-30%), kidney (-22%), and uterus (-57%) of the rats. Another group of researchers (Gundlah et al., 2002) found that estrogen treatment reduced the optical density of MAO-A mRNA in the dorsal raphe nucleus and in the hypothalamic paraventricular nucleus, lateral hypothalamus, and ventromedial nucleus of spayed rhesus monkeys.
So, if you're willing to try a supplement with anti-estrogenic properties, then that should theoretically raise MAO activity (assuming that the supplement doesn't also reduce MAO activity by some other mechanism). And that's assuming that such a supplement exists. I'm not sure if there are any commercially available supplements that reduce estrogen activity, but then again, I haven't looked.
Hope this helps a little.
Tomatheus
==
REFERENCES
Gundlah, C., Lu, N. Z., & Bethea, C. L. (2002). Ovarian steroid regulation of monoamine oxidase-A and B mRNAs in the macaque dorsal raphe and hypothalamic nuclei. Psychopharmacology, 160, 271-282. Abstract: http://www.springerlink.com/content/xnynf4ywfnj1ywwb/
Holschneider, D. P., Kumazawa, T., Chen, K., & Shih, J. C. (1998). Tissue-specific effects of estrogen on monoamine oxidase A and B in the rat. Life Sciences, 63, 155-160. Abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9698044&dopt=Citation
Posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 9:04:50
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?) » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on January 14, 2007, at 23:31:04
Or perhaps something pro-progesterone?
I heard progesterone increase MAO. Not sure though.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on January 15, 2007, at 10:01:15
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 13, 2007, at 19:38:33
I didn't know the relationship between migraine and MAO. I thought it was interesting that riboflavin and magnesium would have a similar effect, considering mg is a cofactor of COMT.
Riboflavin seems to work good in countering my early waking problem. One of the few things I can take in the middle of the night without feeling sedated a few hours later...I think it's going to be in my regular rotation now, taking as needed...
Linkadge, are you still taking folic acid? I tried it but thought it affected my sleep a bit and read some anectdotal stuff about that...oh well, maybe riboflavin would counter that too...
I'd take a B-Complex but it appears B-6 has an anti-testosterone effect...a quick pubmed search suggests...
Posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 11:52:35
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by qqqsimmons on January 15, 2007, at 10:01:15
I'd also like to know if there are any upper limits to riboflavin (?) B6 for example is neurotoxic if you take too much.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on January 15, 2007, at 12:03:09
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 11:52:35
The Linus Pauling site says riboflavin can cause damage in the presence of excess chromium.
Other than that it appears very safe. Of course, sometimes there are more subtle side effects.
And I'd expect it would clear out of the system faster than magnesium.
Linus Pauling page:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/riboflavin/
Posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 14:49:25
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by qqqsimmons on January 15, 2007, at 12:03:09
Thanks for the information.
Linkadge
Posted by qqqsimmons on January 15, 2007, at 17:40:23
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 14:49:25
i wonder if too much riboflavin can make you depressed. i've felt a bit slow today.
Posted by Tomatheus on January 16, 2007, at 20:04:58
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 15, 2007, at 9:04:50
> Or perhaps something pro-progesterone?
>
> I heard progesterone increase MAO. Not sure though.Unfortunately, I haven't researched the relationship between progesterone and MAO acvitity thoroughly enough to say with any measure of confidence what effect an increase in progesterone levels would have on human MAO acvitity.
Judging from my reading of the Gundlah et al. (2002) article that I cited in my previous post to this thread, the evidence pertaining to progesterone's regulatory actions on MAO activity seems to be somewhat contradictory. It may be the case that such regulatory actions vary from one species to the next, but I haven't come across enough evidence to say for certain whether or not this is the case.
At any rate, here are a few facts from the Gundlah et al. (2002) article on the relationship between progesterone levels and MAO activity:
* Previous studies had shown that the acute administration of estrogen reduced hypothalamic MAO-A activity in rats. Subsequent administration of progesterone to estrogen-primed rats was found to restore hypothalamic MAO-A activity. (This would support the idea that progesterone would increase MAO activity, at least in rats).
* Gundlah et al. (2002) wrote that "the actions of [estrogen] and [progesterone] in the serotonin system differ in various respects between rodents and primates." The researchers, however, did not make any specific references to previous research findings that would support the idea that progesterone affects the rodent serotonin system any differently than it affects the primate serotonin system.
* The results of the study carried out by Gundlah et al. (2002) indicate that progesterone, like estrogen, reduces the optical density of MAO-A mRNA in the dorsal raphe nucleus and in the hypothalamic paraventricular nucleus, lateral hypothalamus, and ventromedial nucleus of spayed rhesus monkeys. The study's authors also pointed out that neither estrogen nor progesterone affected the expression of MAO-B mRNA in the dorsal raphe nucleus, but both ovarian hormones significantly reduced the optical density of MAO-B in the hypothalamic preoptic area, lateral hypothalamus, and ventromedial nucleus of the primates that were studied. (So, these findings would support the idea that progesterone might actually *reduce* MAO activity -- instead of increasing it -- in humans. Of course, that's assuming that progesterone's regulatory actions on MAO activity in humans are the same as they are in rhesus monkeys ).
That basically sums up the facts that I've come across concerning the relationship between progesterone and MAO activity. As you can tell, the evidence seems to be somewhat contradictory, possibly due to inter-species differences in progesterone's regulatory actions on MAO activity.
I'm not sure that this helps, other than to show that progesterone's regulatory actions on MAO activity in humans are at least somewhat uncertain. Then again, maybe a study has been done since the Gundlah et al. (2002) report was published to help clear up some of these uncertainties. I am not aware of any such study having been done, though.
Tomatheus
==
REFERENCE
Gundlah, C., Lu, N. Z., & Bethea, C. L. (2002). Ovarian steroid regulation of monoamine oxidase-A and B mRNAs in the macaque dorsal raphe and hypothalamic nuclei. Psychopharmacology, 160, 271-282.
Posted by linkadge on January 18, 2007, at 9:38:35
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?) » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on January 16, 2007, at 20:04:58
Thanks for the information.
Linkadge
Posted by Tomatheus on January 20, 2007, at 23:02:50
In reply to Re: How to increase monoamine oxidase (?), posted by linkadge on January 18, 2007, at 9:38:35
Posted by guardianangel on January 26, 2007, at 12:58:39
In reply to You're welcome. (nm) » linkadge, posted by Tomatheus on January 20, 2007, at 23:02:50
If you want to increase MAO activity in vivo then take a copper supplement. This will then produce a fall in monoamine NT's and thyroid hormone...
But beware it also lowers histamine and can cause histapenic symptoms like depression/schizophrenia.
Copper excess is well known to be implicated in neuropsychiatric illnesses by virtue of its stimulation of tyrosine's conversion into melatonin synthesis, its inhibition of Dopamine formation by Dopa decarboxylase, its stimulation of Dopamine's conversion into Noradrenaline by Dopamine beta hydroxylase, and its inhibition of serotonin formation...the net effect is low Dopamine and serotonin (mood and motivation) and high Noradrenaline (alertness, anxiety)...
Caveat emptor
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