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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 23, 2006, at 21:54:38
I seem to always come back to SAM-e b/c I have had some success with it in the past and the lack of side effects is great for me.. but I have some questions if anyone knows the answers I would be much appreciative.
QUestions:1. What supplements do I need to maximize the effectiveness of SAM-e? I take methyl-B12 , I have also heard that I need to take B6 and serine, anyone know the answer on this one?
2. There are two types the "tosylate" version ( by far the most common) , which I heard was much more likely to break down and not work as good and the " butanedisulphonate" version whoich is supposed to be better. ?
3. Alot of the studies I have read have used SAM-e shots and not the oral form , it seems that it takes a lower dose and appears that it must work better? Is this true?
You can order SAM-e ampoules (shots) from Europe, kind of expensive, but I am itching to use them if they would be superior...
Thanks,
JB
Posted by dessbee on December 24, 2006, at 11:49:41
In reply to SAM-e questions!!!, posted by Jimmyboy on December 23, 2006, at 21:54:38
There are at least two problems with Same:
Increases homocysteine, risk factor for cardiac diseases and depression.
Decreases serotonin/melatonin ratioIf you you want to increase methylation I think TMG is a safer supplement, at least it will not increase homocysteine. It is also much cheaper.
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/aminoacidderivatives.html
Posted by Jimmyboy on December 24, 2006, at 12:52:05
In reply to Re: SAM-e questions!!!, posted by dessbee on December 24, 2006, at 11:49:41
I have read about the rasing of homcyteine levels, which is pretty scary , but I read that supplementing with B vitamins will help that. I am going to look into TMG also.
I guess what I was wondering the most is what a previous poster wrote about the bioavailability of certain forms of SAM-e . I read that the tosylate form , which bar far most common is only 1% available whereas the butanedisulfonate form is 5% . I actually don;t really know what that means or how much of a diference it makes. Is it 5% more potent?
JB
Posted by dessbee on December 24, 2006, at 13:10:24
In reply to Re: SAM-e questions!!!, posted by Jimmyboy on December 24, 2006, at 12:52:05
I have tried Same 200 mg, but do not know which form. My experience was that it induced stress, dry mouth and alertness. Most likely it's because of increased epinephrine.
Bioavailability of 1% means that only 1 mg of 100 mg reaches systemic circulation due incomplete absorption and first-pass metabolism (liver).
Posted by blueberry1 on December 24, 2006, at 18:31:28
In reply to SAM-e questions!!!, posted by Jimmyboy on December 23, 2006, at 21:54:38
I wish I knew the answers to your good questions, but I don't. When I read about SAMe though, the words B12 and folate keep coming up.
I started SAMe yesterday at 200mg. Today 400mg. Tomorrow ???mg. I did a lot of study on it but ended up figuring this thing is just too complicated and nobody really knows what the heck it does, so just take my doses and see what happens. I mean, I get the sense it enhances dopamine and serotonin and decreases norepinephrine. Which is fine with me because that's exactly what I need. Anything norepinephrine just makes me really really depressed.
Today was a noticeable improvement over yesterday. It did feel serotonergic/dopaminergic to me. I knew right away when I woke up that something was different because my finger/thumb tremors upon waking that I've had for two years were gone. But like so many things I've tried, if they are going to turn evil on me they will do so within 4 days. So we'll see. So far it feels promising.
Other things I am on right now:
150mg LI160 St Johns Wort
100mg Lithium Orotate
450mg EPA/100mg DHA fish oil
Multivitamin with lots of the B's
1.25mg ZyprexaSince you say you keep coming back to SAMe, that's a good sign.
Posted by dessbee on December 25, 2006, at 6:24:18
In reply to Re: SAM-e questions!!! » Jimmyboy, posted by blueberry1 on December 24, 2006, at 18:31:28
S-adenoylmethionine is recycled in what is known as the methionine metabolic pathway. Folic acid and B12 are an integral part of the methionine cycle.
http://sites.huji.ac.il/malaria/maps/methioninemetpath.html
Folic acid in methionine synthase.
B12 in methionine synthase reductase.http://www.chem.qmul.ac.uk/iubmb/enzyme/reaction/misc/MetSyn.html
Posted by Declan on December 26, 2006, at 1:34:47
In reply to Re: SAM-e questions!!!, posted by Jimmyboy on December 24, 2006, at 12:52:05
With supplementation of the relevant cofactors SAMe (800mg/d) didn't increase homocysteine in me.
We were on the lookout for that and had it tested, before and after.
My nutritional dr said that was the way it normally went when I raised the issue with him.
This is the end of the thread.
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