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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by aeon on November 29, 2006, at 18:22:46
Hi again
News from the laboratory of my mind.
I have been really interested lately in the NMDA glutamate theory of neurotoxicity in depression and other disorders.
I am terribly sensitive to free glutamate (eg:in msg, soya sauce, yeast extracts etc) so I decided to see if I could help my brain.
Using the theory of glutathione being a good antioxidant I took 1 gram of cysteine planning to take that much each day and add lipoic acid too.
Didn't get that far because the cysteine caused a massive worsening of symptoms... first irritability then extreme anxiety, to panic, to a full blown curl up in fetal on the couch depression.
Once this reaction passed a little I felt headachy and tired and dysthymic I thought wow that sucked but started to try to understand why.
Turns out Cysteine is a neurotoxin, and is an NMDA agonist, which means it increasese NMDA caused neurotoxicity. The reaction I had was similar to when I consume msg.
Anyway I started researching for NMDA antagonists... guess what? Magnesium is a great antagonist of NMDA. Also carnitine as it turns out.
So I took 500mg acetyl-l-carntine and 800mg mag orotate.
The effects were rapid. It reversed all the cysteine induced problems and gave me a great sensation of energised relaxation in its place. An absolutely wonderful amelioration.
This morning I have repeated the concoction and the same response is evident.
I am wondering now if my problems are NMDA/glutamate related at their source...
Is it possible that the acetly l carnitine is delivering magnesium to the brain, maybe the body forms magnesium carnitate? then they work some kind of NMDA antagonist magic?
I have never experienced benefit from magnesium before though have tried it multiple times in different forms, and carnitine I usually notice no real effects from, its just supporting nutrient.
Together though they seem to have a wonderful synergistic effect.
Posted by willyee on November 30, 2006, at 9:39:06
In reply to Accidentally disovered something, posted by aeon on November 29, 2006, at 18:22:46
> Hi again
>
> News from the laboratory of my mind.
>
> I have been really interested lately in the NMDA glutamate theory of neurotoxicity in depression and other disorders.
>
> I am terribly sensitive to free glutamate (eg:in msg, soya sauce, yeast extracts etc) so I decided to see if I could help my brain.
>
> Using the theory of glutathione being a good antioxidant I took 1 gram of cysteine planning to take that much each day and add lipoic acid too.
>
> Didn't get that far because the cysteine caused a massive worsening of symptoms... first irritability then extreme anxiety, to panic, to a full blown curl up in fetal on the couch depression.
>
> Once this reaction passed a little I felt headachy and tired and dysthymic I thought wow that sucked but started to try to understand why.
>
> Turns out Cysteine is a neurotoxin, and is an NMDA agonist, which means it increasese NMDA caused neurotoxicity. The reaction I had was similar to when I consume msg.
>
> Anyway I started researching for NMDA antagonists... guess what? Magnesium is a great antagonist of NMDA. Also carnitine as it turns out.
>
> So I took 500mg acetyl-l-carntine and 800mg mag orotate.
>
> The effects were rapid. It reversed all the cysteine induced problems and gave me a great sensation of energised relaxation in its place. An absolutely wonderful amelioration.
>
> This morning I have repeated the concoction and the same response is evident.
>
> I am wondering now if my problems are NMDA/glutamate related at their source...
>
> Is it possible that the acetly l carnitine is delivering magnesium to the brain, maybe the body forms magnesium carnitate? then they work some kind of NMDA antagonist magic?
>
> I have never experienced benefit from magnesium before though have tried it multiple times in different forms, and carnitine I usually notice no real effects from, its just supporting nutrient.
>
> Together though they seem to have a wonderful synergistic effect.
>
>
>
>
>
>Dident you just strongly recomend a HIGHLY expensive combo to the group already,if it was working so well,why would you continue to be trying stuff,no insult here,just i was one who bought ur recomendation and i have over 20 bucks of supplements sitting on my desk,totaly waste for me.
Posted by nolvas on November 30, 2006, at 14:16:43
In reply to Re: Accidentally disovered something, posted by willyee on November 30, 2006, at 9:39:06
I see it from this point of view.. I've taken supplements based on good studies and double blind trials and it hasn't worked for me. So I can understand you might feel upset buying something that some one recommended and they seem to maybe change their mind or change the formula they are using. However I didn't write to the scientists/publishers of the study and complain that I had taken the same supplements and dosages in their study and it didn't work for me. If you take this attitude then where does it end? Do you try and find all the people in the study and complain to them etc etc.
Anyway this post isn't trying to antagonise or upset you, it's just another point of view.
Posted by willyee on November 30, 2006, at 18:00:07
In reply to Re: Accidentally disovered something, posted by nolvas on November 30, 2006, at 14:16:43
> I see it from this point of view.. I've taken supplements based on good studies and double blind trials and it hasn't worked for me. So I can understand you might feel upset buying something that some one recommended and they seem to maybe change their mind or change the formula they are using. However I didn't write to the scientists/publishers of the study and complain that I had taken the same supplements and dosages in their study and it didn't work for me. If you take this attitude then where does it end? Do you try and find all the people in the study and complain to them etc etc.
>
> Anyway this post isn't trying to antagonise or upset you, it's just another point of view.
>
>No im glad we have someone posting things they try,its great !!Its just the confirmation in the tone of the post i found to be a little strong.Either way im a adult and the final decision to do anything is on myself,i wasnt upset with anyone,just as i stated was curious why if he was doing so well on the first mentioned combination why did he find himself trying new stuff.
Not sure what you meant about a study,i thought it was just his combo he came up with.Either way id rather have ideas shared then nothing at all.
All aside i went "natural" for a year and find i do better on my maoi drug and unlike natural,im not spending POUNDS of money on jars of supplements.
I wish one of the methods i tried did end up working.
Posted by nolvas on November 30, 2006, at 20:05:09
In reply to Re: Accidentally disovered something, posted by willyee on November 30, 2006, at 18:00:07
Yeah whatever works for you at the end of the day. I'm not a particular fan of suppressive orthodox medicine, but if something works for you, then don't change it :)
Posted by blueberry on December 2, 2006, at 6:20:57
In reply to Accidentally disovered something, posted by aeon on November 29, 2006, at 18:22:46
Aeon you were supposedly doing great on your previous recipe a week ago. So I am confused why you went for a new recipe. And while this new recipe sounds so good, it makes me wonder if it will be abandoned and replaced by yet something else next week. If the recipes work as good as you say they do, why do you keep changing them? I am just confused. I would like to try some of your recipes, but the whole thing seems very instable and unreliable when you keep changing them. ??? Any help clarifying this is much appreciated.
Posted by sregan on January 16, 2007, at 21:38:48
In reply to Re: Accidentally disovered something » aeon, posted by blueberry on December 2, 2006, at 6:20:57
>I would like to try some of your recipes, but the whole thing seems very instable and unreliable when you keep changing them. ??? Any help clarifying this is much appreciated.
Aeon is a little wreckless but I admire his willingness to experiment. I have found myself in his shoes. The last year has been an experiment and I find myself getting excited about a new supplement and they might work for a week or so then fade.
Now if something is working after two or more weeks I take it as the real deal but not till then. I've had some success and mostly failures but am still hopeful.
I would like to discuss the NMDA/Glutamate thing. Perhaps in a separate thread.
Posted by sregan on January 16, 2007, at 21:49:50
In reply to Accidentally disovered something, posted by aeon on November 29, 2006, at 18:22:46
> Turns out Cysteine is a neurotoxin, and is an NMDA agonist, which means it increasese NMDA caused neurotoxicity. The reaction I had was similar to when I consume msg.
>
> Anyway I started researching for NMDA antagonists... guess what? Magnesium is a great antagonist of NMDA. Also carnitine as it turns out.
>
> So I took 500mg acetyl-l-carntine and 800mg mag orotate.
>
> The effects were rapid. It reversed all the cysteine induced problems and gave me a great sensation of energised relaxation in its place. An absolutely wonderful amelioration.Aeon,
You might try Theanine and/or Klonopin. You might look into Chronic Fatigue if you believe you have an NMDA issue. Search for "CFS" and "Paul Cheney". Cheney's theory is CFS being a NMDA overload and prescribes a regiment for it.
Shawn
This is the end of the thread.
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