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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 16, 2006, at 2:55:12
In reply to Xanax Problems, posted by jealibeanz on September 15, 2006, at 15:32:13
Jealibeanz,
You might want to consider trying taurine for anxiety, perhaps with a lower dose of Xanax (assuming that it would be ok with your doctor).
I experienced regular panic attacks both while I was taking lithium and for several months after discontinuing the drug (or mineral salt, to be more accurate), and I found taurine to be quite helpful in reducing the severity and duration of these attacks.
I rarely experience panic attacks these days, but I still notice a little bit of low-grade panic-like anxiety on an almost daily basis. Taking taurine (500-2000 mg/day) helps me feel more at ease without causing any fatigue. It also seems to reduce sweating (Wellbutrin, lithium, and some versions of Nardil caused me to sweat excessively, and this has never completely gone away) and the mild hand tremor that I have (another adverse effect of lithium that hasn't gone away). Taurine also seems to counteract the jitteriness and edginess that I sometimes get from drinking caffeinated beverages without reducing caffeine's ability to promote wakefulness. I believe that this is why taurine is an ingredient in most energy drinks.
The only downside to taurine that I can think of (based on my experience) is that it's relatively short-acting. So, I basically need to keep taking it every few hours to get a sustained anti-anxiety effect. But I've found it to be effective in reducing panic-like anxiety without causing any sedation or drowsiness, so I think it would be worth considering.
Of course, it's important to keep in mind that your mileage may vary...
Tomatheus
> I'm order to decrease my anxety to a manageable level, I've had to increase my Xanax dosage. However, it's starting to effect my healthy lifestyle habits! I'm too tired and lack motivation to work out. If I take a high doses due to an extremely anxiety producng event, I almost go into that drunk eating mode where you just ingest large amounts unhealthy foods in effort to counter the weird feeling in your head.
>
> I like working out. It improves my mood. But lately I could care less. And am gaining weight because of this. I'm on Provigil, which allows me to get out of bed, but not countering the Xanax enough.
Posted by willyee on September 16, 2006, at 11:26:33
In reply to Taurine » jealibeanz, posted by Tomatheus on September 16, 2006, at 2:55:12
I agree taurine is a great natural addition.I say addition because alone,and especialy with chronic cases its unlikly to be enough.However i do believe it works very well and has a great synergy with a benzo.
Taurine is inhibitotory,and does play a role with gaba.Also is said to be a nerve moderator making it sort of along the lines of a mood stablizer.
One thing is being a amino be careful as with all aminos not to go overboard,but it is a great and cheap suggestion.
I personaly recomend country life brand,the hard tab form which includes a tiny amount of b6 to aid it to the brain,i find brands play a big role,country life is pharm grade and holds other labelings of purity as gmp which i really dont remeber means now.
However its just a suggestion,but i agree.
Posted by sregan on September 16, 2006, at 17:24:00
In reply to Taurine » jealibeanz, posted by Tomatheus on September 16, 2006, at 2:55:12
> The only downside to taurine that I can think of (based on my experience) is that it's relatively short-acting. So, I basically need to keep taking it every few hours to get a sustained anti-anxiety effect.
Now that's good information. It would be great to compile a "wash-out" time for aminos and such. I do know that aminos are supposed to be most effective when taken alone and on an empty stomach (if they are to cross the Blood-brain barrier anyway).
Posted by sregan on September 16, 2006, at 17:25:50
In reply to Re: Taurine, posted by willyee on September 16, 2006, at 11:26:33
> Taurine is inhibitotory,and does play a role with gaba.Also is said to be a nerve moderator making it sort of along the lines of a mood stablizer.
It's supposed to be a NMDA antagonist according to Dr. Cheney (CFS doc).NMDA and GABA are supposed to be two ends of a see-saw. If you can inhibit NMDA or stimulate GABA you're doing the same thing and vise versa.
Shawn
Posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2006, at 20:04:50
In reply to Re: Taurine, posted by sregan on September 16, 2006, at 17:25:50
Lar told me to take it too for anxiety. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 12:09:48
In reply to Re: Taurine, posted by willyee on September 16, 2006, at 11:26:33
Willyee,
Thanks for your post. I agree with the points that you made, and I appreciate the added info that you provided.
I have personally only tried the GNC brand of taurine, which like the Country Life Brand, also comes in hard tablets. I think it would be interesting to try comparing brands to see if one might be more effective than another.
I should probably also clarify that my previous post on taurine was also just meant to be a suggestion (not that you or anyone else has suggested that my post was anything more than a suggestion, but I just wanted to make this point perfectly clear). I definitely think it's possible that some individuals with anxiety might not find taurine to be as effective as I have, and even though I've found taurine to be modestly effective, I don't think that it's a miracle cure by any means. I guess that the main point that I wanted to make was that anyone looking for a non-sedating anti-anxiety treatment should think about possibly giving taurine a try.
Tomatheus
> I agree taurine is a great natural addition.I say addition because alone,and especialy with chronic cases its unlikly to be enough.However i do believe it works very well and has a great synergy with a benzo.
>
> Taurine is inhibitotory,and does play a role with gaba.Also is said to be a nerve moderator making it sort of along the lines of a mood stablizer.
>
> One thing is being a amino be careful as with all aminos not to go overboard,but it is a great and cheap suggestion.
>
> I personaly recomend country life brand,the hard tab form which includes a tiny amount of b6 to aid it to the brain,i find brands play a big role,country life is pharm grade and holds other labelings of purity as gmp which i really dont remeber means now.
>
> However its just a suggestion,but i agree.
Posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 12:20:33
In reply to Re: Taurine, posted by sregan on September 16, 2006, at 17:24:00
> Now that's good information. It would be great to compile a "wash-out" time for aminos and such. I do know that aminos are supposed to be most effective when taken alone and on an empty stomach (if they are to cross the Blood-brain barrier anyway).
sregan,
I think that your suggestion to compile a list of "wash-out" times for amino acids is an excellent idea. I really have no idea if taurine and other amino acids have official "half lives," but I can say based on my experience that the effects of every amino acid that I've taken seem to last about 2-3 hours. Of course, it is possible that there could be individual differences in the duration of the effects of amino acids, but my guess is that most individuals will probably find that amino acids need to be taken at least a few times a day to produce a sustained effect.
Also, your point about amino acids being most effective when taken alone and on an empty stomach is consistent with everything that I've read. As you mentioned, amino acids must compete with one another to get across the blood-brain barrier, so taking an amino acid with other amino acids or food (especially meats and dairy products that are rich in amino acids) just provides more competition.
Thanks for your post.
Tomatheus
Posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 12:32:42
In reply to Re: Taurine, posted by Phillipa on September 16, 2006, at 20:04:50
> Lar told me to take it too for anxiety. Love Phillipa
Phillipa,
As I've mentioned, I do think that taurine is worth considering for anxiety, and I think that it may be helpful in augmenting other biological treatments for anxiety. I should point out, however, that I have read of some cases on this board of taurine actually making anxiety worse. Like most treatments, I think that taurine's capacity to produce an anti-anxiety response probably varies from one individual to the next (and probably also on the type of anxiety that one's experiencing).
On a positive note, though, taurine is relatively inexpensive, and its effects can usually be felt within 10-15 minutes of taking it. So, even if you try taking taurine and find that you don't respond favorably to it, you'll know that this is the case right away without having wasted hundreds of dollars and/or weeks or months of your time.
Tomatheus
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2006, at 20:38:23
In reply to Re: Taurine » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 12:32:42
I had a powder that you mixed in water. It made no difference so I stopped it. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 22:45:07
In reply to Re: Taurine » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2006, at 20:38:23
Phillipa,
Thanks for your response. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't respond to taurine. As I'm sure you're aware, responses can clearly vary from one individual to the next.
Do you remember what dose of taurine you took? Most taurine tablets and capsules contain 500 mg of the amino acid. I'm just wondering if you might have been taking a sub-therapeutic amount of taurine.
Tomatheus
> I had a powder that you mixed in water. It made no difference so I stopped it. Love Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2006, at 22:51:02
In reply to Re: Taurine » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 22:45:07
I think it was up to a gram. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 22:55:11
In reply to Re: Taurine » Tomatheus, posted by Phillipa on September 18, 2006, at 22:51:02
> I think it was up to a gram. Love Phillipa
Ok. It sounds like you probably gave it a fair trial, then. I'm sorry again to hear that it didn't work out for you.
Tomatheus
Posted by Questionmark on October 2, 2006, at 1:56:13
In reply to Re: Taurine » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 22:55:11
Taurine! I love this amino acid. I mean yeah, no it's no miracle supplement, but for its price, lack of side effects, and lack of apparent harm, it is quite a helpful little supplement. The strange thing is for me, however, that I never noticed anything from it when I took it by itself. From all the positive posts I read on this board about it, and the articles I read about its neuropharmacology, I was expecting some great benzo-like anti-anxiety effects. I was disappointed when no effects were ever felt from it however.
But after some time I began to notice that every time I took it with caffeine, I would feel slightly-but-significantly more positive, sociable, upbeat, and-- actually, I think-- energized. And I think-- as someone else mentioned on this thread-- that it prevented some of the extra anxiety and jitteryness that accompanies caffeine (but i'm not sure about this part). It's strange though. For me it almost feels more like an adaptogenic herb than an anxiolytic. And it only seems to have any noticeable effects when used in conjunction with caffeine. I'm not sure why that is.
Also, i typically take 1 to 2g, usually 1.5g, and it generally seems to last at least 4 or 5 hours for me.A final note-- although taurine *is* a significant NMDA antagonist or inhibitor (can't remember which exactly), I recently read some research articles that makes me pretty sure it is located in several areas of the brain, including one of those major dopamine-concentrated areas (VTA, nucleus accumbens, substantia nigra, or some other [again I can't remember which]). So I believe it has other roles other than just being a straight anxiolytic stemming from NMDA antagonism.
But that really wasn't that helpful cuz it was so non-specific but hopefully issomething.But yeah, I'm grateful to this board and Larry Hoover in particular for showing me this helpful supplement.
Posted by Questionmark on October 2, 2006, at 2:22:30
In reply to Re: Taurine » Phillipa, posted by Tomatheus on September 18, 2006, at 22:55:11
I was under the impression that not ALL the amino acids' absorption (er, was it blood-brain-barrier transport? [dangit my memeory is so bad]) was affected by others. For instance, I knew that tryptophan, phenylalanine, and tyrosine affect each others absorption, and others, but.... yeah.
So yes, or no?
Posted by sregan on October 2, 2006, at 10:08:39
In reply to Re: Taurine (sorry 1 other thing), posted by Questionmark on October 2, 2006, at 2:22:30
I read that amino's COMPETE to cross the blood-brain barrier. There is only so much that can cross at any given pass. The more particles that are permeable to the membrane the more that will compete to cross. If they don't cross they are in danger of being removed by the kidneys or absorbed somewhere else.
Taking an amino by itself, no other aminos or food for at least 15 minutes should ensure maximum absorption.
Shawn
> I was under the impression that not ALL the amino acids' absorption (er, was it blood-brain-barrier transport? [dangit my memeory is so bad]) was affected by others. For instance, I knew that tryptophan, phenylalanine, and tyrosine affect each others absorption, and others, but.... yeah.
This is the end of the thread.
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