![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by honeybee on June 14, 2006, at 16:21:29
I seem to be having a tough time cogitating and remembering these days. (And I'm young; well, in my early thirties.) I've been chalking it up to the depression and am going back on ADs (prozac). I swear I used to be smart-- valedictorian and the lot, almost 5.0 in college (on a 5.0 scale), graduate school--and now my brain grinds to a halt on the simplest of tasks. Attention is difficult, etc. First question, are these cognitive effects common to other folks' depressions? I really feel like my brain is running on about 40% capacity.
The reason I'm posting, of course, is to ask if there are any supplements that may help to kick start the AD and restart my brain? I seem to (barely) remember a string some months back asking the same question. Can't find it through.
Thanks, everyone.
(Choline? Phosphatidyl? Gingko?)
Any interactions I should watch out for if I'm on prozac?
honeybee
Posted by dessbee on June 15, 2006, at 9:01:08
In reply to Supplements for Cognition and Memory, posted by honeybee on June 14, 2006, at 16:21:29
Are you overweight?
Do you eat frequent snacks/meals with high sugar/carbohydrate content?
Do you exercize?
Do you sleep well?
Posted by Jakeman on June 16, 2006, at 23:26:07
In reply to Supplements for Cognition and Memory, posted by honeybee on June 14, 2006, at 16:21:29
> I seem to be having a tough time cogitating and remembering these days. (And I'm young; well, in my early thirties.) I've been chalking it up to the depression and am going back on ADs (prozac). I swear I used to be smart-- valedictorian and the lot, almost 5.0 in college (on a 5.0 scale), graduate school--and now my brain grinds to a halt on the simplest of tasks. Attention is difficult, etc. First question, are these cognitive effects common to other folks' depressions? I really feel like my brain is running on about 40% capacity.
>
> The reason I'm posting, of course, is to ask if there are any supplements that may help to kick start the AD and restart my brain? I seem to (barely) remember a string some months back asking the same question. Can't find it through.
>
> Thanks, everyone.
>
> (Choline? Phosphatidyl? Gingko?)
>
> Any interactions I should watch out for if I'm on prozac?
>
> honeybeeI've had some good results from Phosphatidylserine. It's also supposed to mediate cortisol.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by honeybee on June 27, 2006, at 10:45:02
In reply to Re: Supplements for Cognition and Memory?, posted by dessbee on June 15, 2006, at 9:01:08
> Are you overweight?
Nope, in fact, I'm rather underweight, if you ask me. I'm 5'4 and weigh a measly 106-108 pounds. I'd like to gain.> Do you eat frequent snacks/meals with high sugar/carbohydrate content?
Nope, I try to eat healthy. Lately, I've been trying to eat more protein and gave up my 14-year-long streak of vegetarianism to try to help me gain weight. Right now, I try to make it an even mix of protein, carbs, and veggies. I don't have a sweet tooth.
> Do you exercize?
Lately, no. I was having this tachycardia issue that made me avoid it. And I didn't want to lose any more weight, so I stopped exercising. (I've since decided I'm going to have to go back to it.)
> Do you sleep well?
When I get a chance to, yes!
But my memory still seems to be shot. And my attention, too.
Suggestions?
I am going to a TCM herbalist doc tomorrow. Fingers crossed.
>
>
>
Posted by dessbee on July 4, 2006, at 13:39:55
In reply to Re: Supplements for Cognition and Memory? » dessbee, posted by honeybee on June 27, 2006, at 10:45:02
Sounds like you don't get as much sleep as you want.
Are you overstressed?
What did your herbalist say?
Posted by JLx on July 4, 2006, at 15:47:50
In reply to Supplements for Cognition and Memory, posted by honeybee on June 14, 2006, at 16:21:29
> I seem to be having a tough time cogitating and remembering these days. (And I'm young; well, in my early thirties.) I've been chalking it up to the depression and am going back on ADs (prozac). I swear I used to be smart-- valedictorian and the lot, almost 5.0 in college (on a 5.0 scale), graduate school--and now my brain grinds to a halt on the simplest of tasks. Attention is difficult, etc. First question, are these cognitive effects common to other folks' depressions? I really feel like my brain is running on about 40% capacity.
>
> The reason I'm posting, of course, is to ask if there are any supplements that may help to kick start the AD and restart my brain? I seem to (barely) remember a string some months back asking the same question. Can't find it through.
>
> Thanks, everyone.
>
> (Choline? Phosphatidyl? Gingko?)
>
> Any interactions I should watch out for if I'm on prozac?
>
> honeybeeFolic acid may help the Prozac be more effective.
JL
Posted by dessbee on July 25, 2006, at 7:04:03
In reply to Re: Supplements for Cognition and Memory » honeybee, posted by JLx on July 4, 2006, at 15:47:50
Folic acid can aggrevate depression if you have high histamine levels.
Posted by circusboy on July 29, 2006, at 22:48:04
In reply to Supplements for Cognition and Memory, posted by honeybee on June 14, 2006, at 16:21:29
Cognitive effects are absolutely part of my depressions! In fact, I think they're primary. Social withdrawal and self-loathing follow the awful realization that I can't write anymore, I can't think fast enough to have an interesting conversation, etc... I used to feel like there was a sort of ceiling on my intelligence, made all the more painful because it was transparent.
First, I'm curious about what other AD's you've tried? I have this mildly-informed hypothesis that I kept going back to Prozac because -- at first, anyway -- its anxiety-inducing 5HT2C agonism is *motivating*, and, more importantly, fluoxetine is the most noradrenergic SSRI. (Effexor is an even more noradrenergic SRI, of course, but it also has fogginess-inducing side-effects).
Second, I've noticed that, over time (months), Prozac at 20mg has a significant detrimental impact on my concentration and working memory. I think this probably has to do with increased 5-HT signaling reducing dopaminergic tone in the prefrontal cortex. So after a few months of flx I'm as -- or more -- creative than ever, but my head is constantly buzzing and I can't keep anything straight. This is less of a problem at 20mg every other day.
Third, (why am I counting again?) to get back to my first point: I think I liked Prozac better than e.g. Celexa, and sort of liked Effexor, is because it is something of a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. I say this because, when I finally tried desipramine, it was a revelation. My head quieted, I could think rationally, I felt the furthest from depression I had in years. (Unfortunately it caused terrible insomnia, and I had to quit).
Anyway. To half-answer your question (I'll actually answer it soon, I promise!): what has mostly relieved this cognitive awfulness, on and off of Prozac, is methylphenidate. I'm not sure you'll find an adequate supplemental substitute.
That said, I think the following are worth trying:
- L-tyrosine, 500 - 2000mg. Half an hour before breakfast. I take 1000mg. It helps a bit with energy and concentration (and smooths out the Ritalin). Phenylalanine gives me headaches. Idea, of course, is to increase brain dopamine and norepinephrine, two neurotransmitters much more important to cognitive stuff than serotonin.
- Try Ginkgo; it might help reduce Prozac's sexual side-effects as well. It would keep me up if I took it at dinner, so I took 240mg split between breakfast and lunch. After about a month of Ginkgo therapy I was thinking more clearly, but I'm not sure it deserves the credit..? I quit when I switched from Prozac to desipramine. It's worth a try, anyway.
Hope I've been coherent enough to be of help. :)
-cb
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.