![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 12:19:10
Hi folks,
I've been pursuing a more natural route to health, after going off my bipolar meds in February.
Along with seeing a homeopathic doctor, I am trying to eat well, get sleep, exercise, etc...
I've also started seeing a nutritionist who seems pretty thorough. He has me taking fish oils, 5-HTP, and is starting me on plant sources of Omega 3s, l-tyrosine, evening primrose oil, folic acid, b-complex vitamins...
What is truly unexpected is that he asked me to have a hair analysis done and the results were surprising. The test cost $30, and tests for lots of things, so I did it. My nutritionist gave me my test results today, which show quite a few things, including low calcium levels, low magnesium, low selenium, low zinc. The most concerning were HIGH blood levels of mercury and aluminum, suggesting toxicity.
All of this is a bit overwhelming, but the toxic level of mercury (he doesn't normally do anything about high aluminum levels. !) is something I can do something about, including trying to take selenium (which can help get rid of mercury in the body), and if that doesn't help, do chelation-therapy (sp??).
I realize this last procedure is controversial, but I'm not sure why (I'm also not sure how to spell it!), but I am a tad bit excited to see if lowering my mercury levels could help with my mood instability.
Does anyone have any experience with this stuff??
~Autumn~
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2006, at 15:16:40
In reply to Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury, posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 12:19:10
Oh, goodness. I wonder how on earth you got high levels of murcury.
Do you know the source? Maybe I should get tested for that. I know the fish oil I buy says its tested consistently, but who knows ?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 19, 2006, at 15:19:01
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2006, at 15:16:40
Is there a professional test that could be done? I mean, isn't murcury toxicity a fair issue. Would you believe such a test?
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 16:35:16
In reply to Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury, posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 12:19:10
> What is truly unexpected is that he asked me to have a hair analysis done and the results were surprising. The test cost $30, and tests for lots of things, so I did it. My nutritionist gave me my test results today, which show quite a few things, including low calcium levels, low magnesium, low selenium, low zinc. The most concerning were HIGH blood levels of mercury and aluminum, suggesting toxicity.
I can't answer your questions because you're speaking of two different things. You said you had a hair analysis, yet you mention high blood mercury and aluminum. Did they make your head bleed before they collected the sample?
High compared to what? You can't interpret a test without knowing the methodology, and the standardization. What level are they calling high, and why are they calling it high?
> All of this is a bit overwhelming, but the toxic level of mercury (he doesn't normally do anything about high aluminum levels. !)
Aluminum is not relevant. That's why.
> is something I can do something about, including trying to take selenium (which can help get rid of mercury in the body), and if that doesn't help, do chelation-therapy (sp??).
Your low selenium is likely *caused* by the mercury. I bet you have silver fillings. Tricked you, the dentists did. Silver fillings are approximately 50%, by weight, liquid mercury. The other metals crystallize in the liquid mercury, and you get a self-setting alloy, called amalgam.
You should immediately begin supplementing selenium. You have all the information you need, to prove that.
The low zinc, magnesium, calcium.....doesn't surprise me one bit. Most Americans don't even come close to proper intake of those.
> I realize this last procedure is controversial, but I'm not sure why (I'm also not sure how to spell it!), but I am a tad bit excited to see if lowering my mercury levels could help with my mood instability.
You spelled it right. But I do not endorse it. Not unless you just had an acute mercury exposure. Like, you inhaled mercury vapour from a laboratory accident. Do not do chelation. The yield is almost entirely other minerals. Mercury is darned hard to chelate, and you'll lose what little minerals you do have.
> Does anyone have any experience with this stuff??
>
> ~Autumn~You didn't get all unbalanced in one day. Please, show some patience, as you start to get the balance back. There are adjustments to be made, along the way.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 16:43:21
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2006, at 15:16:40
> Oh, goodness. I wonder how on earth you got high levels of murcury.
>
> Do you know the source? Maybe I should get tested for that. I know the fish oil I buy says its tested consistently, but who knows ?
>
>
> LinkadgeThe fish oil is not an issue. There is no detectable mercury in fish oil, for all intents and purposes. It's all removed during the refining process that makes fish oil palatable to human beings. Crude fish oil is disgusting stuff. Simply disgusting stuff. You don't wanna know.
The most common sources of mercury exposure are: amalgam fillings. Next, amalgam fillings. Oh, I said that already.
The next most likely point source is being down-wind from a coal-fired electrical plant, or similar. Or, downwind from a crematorium.
Fish may or may not be an issue in an individual's mercury profile. It depends on how much fish the person eats, and how dirty the fish is. And, it depends on how much selenium is consumed, concurrent to the fish. Or, whatever the source exposure is.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 16:46:40
In reply to Larry what do you think about this?, posted by linkadge on June 19, 2006, at 15:19:01
> Is there a professional test that could be done? I mean, isn't murcury toxicity a fair issue. Would you believe such a test?
>
> LinkadgeA hair mercury analysis is not likely to be cross-contaminated. I'm less likely to believe zinc or selenium, for example, because there are shampoos just full of that stuff. Head and shoulders (zinc), or selsun blue (selenium), for example. Copper in hair is unreliable, because of copper plumbing. You rinse your hair in copper every time you wash it, and copper binds strongly to hair protein. You need to be selective about what part of a hair analysis you believe. Mercury, probably. Because mercury is volatile, a breath test is better. An atomic absorption spectrograph of a breath sample is the most accurate method.
Lar
Posted by Declan on June 19, 2006, at 17:07:48
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » holymama, posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 16:35:16
My nutritional dr did a quick calculation of the amount of mercury in my mouth, the leaching rate, and compared it to the WHO safe level and I was many multiples over. This came up because I had a growth on my thyroid gland in which, he suspected, mercury was implicated.
His suggestion was to have all the amalgam fillings out and then to chelate. (There is argument about the best forms of chelation and I forget them. Is it DMSO, EDTA and cilantro?) I didn't have it done anyway, although I have no doubt that mercury in fillings is bad and I'll never put it in the teeth of my kids.
Declan
Posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 17:29:11
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » holymama, posted by Larry Hoover on June 19, 2006, at 16:35:16
> What is truly unexpected is that he asked me to have a hair analysis done and the results were surprising. The test cost $30, and tests for lots of things, so I did it. My nutritionist gave me my test results today, which show quite a few things, including low calcium levels, low magnesium, low selenium, low zinc. The most concerning were HIGH blood levels of mercury and aluminum, suggesting toxicity.
I can't answer your questions because you're speaking of two different things. You said you had a hair analysis, yet you mention high blood mercury and aluminum. Did they make your head bleed before they collected the sample?
I didn't mean to say 'blood' -- I had a sample of my hair tested. :)
High compared to what? You can't interpret a test without knowing the methodology, and the standardization. What level are they calling high, and why are they calling it high?
Larry, I don't have the levels in front of me -- I have a print out of their 'findings', but the actual levels were in my nutritionsist's copy. I didn't ask for a copy of that, because it doesn't mean much to me. I did see on my nutritionist's copy that my mercury level was not just in the high range of normal; it was outside of normal range.
> All of this is a bit overwhelming, but the toxic level of mercury (he doesn't normally do anything about high aluminum levels. !)Aluminum is not relevant. That's why.
Why is aluminum not relevant?? I thought there may be a correlation between aluminum and alzheimer's, and isn't it at least interesting to note that my levels are outside normal range?> is something I can do something about, including trying to take selenium (which can help get rid of mercury in the body), and if that doesn't help, do chelation-therapy (sp??).
Your low selenium is likely *caused* by the mercury. I bet you have silver fillings. Tricked you, the dentists did. Silver fillings are approximately 50%, by weight, liquid mercury. The other metals crystallize in the liquid mercury, and you get a self-setting alloy, called amalgam.
I used to have quite a few amalgam fillings, but have had all but two removed over the last 4 years.You should immediately begin supplementing selenium. You have all the information you need, to prove that.
The low zinc, magnesium, calcium.....doesn't surprise me one bit. Most Americans don't even come close to proper intake of those.
> I realize this last procedure is controversial, but I'm not sure why (I'm also not sure how to spell it!), but I am a tad bit excited to see if lowering my mercury levels could help with my mood instability.
You spelled it right. But I do not endorse it. Not unless you just had an acute mercury exposure. Like, you inhaled mercury vapour from a laboratory accident. Do not do chelation. The yield is almost entirely other minerals. Mercury is darned hard to chelate, and you'll lose what little minerals you do have.
> Does anyone have any experience with this stuff??
>
> ~Autumn~You didn't get all unbalanced in one day. Please, show some patience, as you start to get the balance back. There are adjustments to be made, along the way.
Lar
Thanks for the info Larry, and I think I will have a second hair analysis done (with another company) to see if the results are the same. But I am concerned...I have been actually pretty conscious of this stuff over the years, having my mercury fillings removed, eating organic foods, no chemicals in the house...etc.. not having the typical american diet or lifestyle in many ways. But we do live downwind of a coal-burning, mercury-producing electrical plant, (now that someone mentioned it)...one that my husband has been concerned about. For good reason, I guess...
Posted by blueberry on June 19, 2006, at 18:50:07
In reply to Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury, posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 12:19:10
There is a lot of debate in the scientific community about measuring mercury levels. Different labs have different methods, and different labs have different normal/abnormal ranges that they go by. Hair analysis in particular is not very accurate, but is very popular anyway. It becomes more reliable when you do a challenge urine test (using a chelation agent) to confirm the hair test.
The only one I know of that is reliable is called Doctor's Data, Inc. Your naturopath can have you do a urine test from them. You will swallow 19 capsules before bed, which are chelation agents to draw out the metals, and then in the morning you collect the urine.
I did this test and have high lead and high mercury. My doctor wants me to have my teeth fillings replaced with non-mercury ones and then do chelation therapy, which can be uncomfortable and nasty she says. Until then, taking high doses of Vitamin C (3000mg a day) can begin the process of leaching out the mercury. There are other vitamins, minerals, and supplements you can use also if you do a google search and study up on it.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 9:16:56
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » Larry Hoover, posted by holymama on June 19, 2006, at 17:29:11
> > I can't answer your questions because you're speaking of two different things. You said you had a hair analysis, yet you mention high blood mercury and aluminum. Did they make your head bleed before they collected the sample?
>
>
>
> I didn't mean to say 'blood' -- I had a sample of my hair tested. :)In this case, the mercury most likely does not represent whole body exposure.
> > High compared to what? You can't interpret a test without knowing the methodology, and the standardization. What level are they calling high, and why are they calling it high?
>
>
> Larry, I don't have the levels in front of me -- I have a print out of their 'findings', but the actual levels were in my nutritionsist's copy. I didn't ask for a copy of that, because it doesn't mean much to me. I did see on my nutritionist's copy that my mercury level was not just in the high range of normal; it was outside of normal range.You're living in a hot zone.
> > All of this is a bit overwhelming, but the toxic level of mercury (he doesn't normally do anything about high aluminum levels. !)
>
> > Aluminum is not relevant. That's why.
>
>
> Why is aluminum not relevant?? I thought there may be a correlation between aluminum and alzheimer's, and isn't it at least interesting to note that my levels are outside normal range?That correlation was a spurious finding. Meaningless. It happens.
> > Your low selenium is likely *caused* by the mercury. I bet you have silver fillings. Tricked you, the dentists did. Silver fillings are approximately 50%, by weight, liquid mercury. The other metals crystallize in the liquid mercury, and you get a self-setting alloy, called amalgam.
>
>
> I used to have quite a few amalgam fillings, but have had all but two removed over the last 4 years.Get those last two out.
> > You should immediately begin supplementing selenium. You have all the information you need, to prove that.
>
> > The low zinc, magnesium, calcium.....doesn't surprise me one bit. Most Americans don't even come close to proper intake of those.
> > You didn't get all unbalanced in one day. Please, show some patience, as you start to get the balance back. There are adjustments to be made, along the way.
>
> Lar
>
>
> Thanks for the info Larry, and I think I will have a second hair analysis done (with another company) to see if the results are the same. But I am concerned...Of course. Your concern is justified. Hair analysis must be carefully interpreted, though. And few people have that skill.
> I have been actually pretty conscious of this stuff over the years, having my mercury fillings removed, eating organic foods, no chemicals in the house...etc.. not having the typical american diet or lifestyle in many ways. But we do live downwind of a coal-burning, mercury-producing electrical plant, (now that someone mentioned it)...one that my husband has been concerned about. For good reason, I guess...
That's why I mentioned it, in my list. Most people do not live right downwind of huge coal plants. All the dust that comes off of that stinkin' thing is contaminated with mercury. It actually makes your hair test less reliable.
Your car sits out there, collecting dust, sometimes for long stretches of time. You hop in there, and crank up the air conditioning, and all that mercury (and other metals) dust get thrown up into the air in your car. It settles on your hair. On your clothes. As if your clothes weren't already dusty.
You live in a hot zone.
Take 400 mcg/day selenium for one month. Make sure it is from selenium yeast. It contains a much higher percentage than usually found of the seleno-amino acids seleno-cysteine and seleno-methionine. In those already highly protective aminos, the usual sulphur atom has been substituted with a selenium atom. Instead of a sulfhydryl group, you've got a seleno-hydryl group. It's ready to meet its maker. If it bumps into a mercury atom, bazaam! It's all over for that mercury atom. The selenium-mercury dimer that forms is the most insoluble molecule ever known (as far as I know.....maybe there's some other freaky weird stuff). It is so insoluble, that the solubility can't be measured. That particular mercury atom is cancelled.
So, selenium yeast, at 400 mcg/day, for a month.
Then, 200 mcg/day, for the rest of your life, or until adverse effects occur. We don't know your sensitivity to selenium, and we're still at about a half of the level at which the most sensitive people begin to show symptoms.
Vacuum your house, a lot. Use a paper mask when you're doing it. Anybody else in the house wears a mask, too, while all that vacuuming is going on.
Lar
Posted by blueberry on June 20, 2006, at 19:00:55
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » holymama, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 9:16:56
Larry,
Question for you, since I too have elevated mercury levels...
When you take selenium yeast, and selenium binds up that mercury atom, what happens after that? You say it is insoluble. What does that mean? Does that mean it sits there neutral forever, or does it get flushed out, or what?
I've never heard of selenium yeast. I wonder where you get it. I'll have to google it and see.
Anyway, very curious as to what happens to the selenium/mercury duo after they bond. ???
Posted by holymama on June 20, 2006, at 19:09:10
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » holymama, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 9:16:56
Posted by blueberry on June 20, 2006, at 19:10:11
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » holymama, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 9:16:56
One more question Larry. Your post was so detailed and technical it was a little over my head. I was wondering...
What about selenium supplements from the drug store or selenium in multivitamins. Do those forms of selenium bind to mercury, or is that form of selenium not useful against mercury?
Does the selenium bind to the mercury and neutralize its damaging effects, or does the selenium bind the mercury so that it can be leached out?
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 23:09:44
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » Larry Hoover, posted by blueberry on June 20, 2006, at 19:00:55
> Larry,
>
> Question for you, since I too have elevated mercury levels...
>
> When you take selenium yeast, and selenium binds up that mercury atom, what happens after that? You say it is insoluble. What does that mean? Does that mean it sits there neutral forever, or does it get flushed out, or what?As far as I know, it just sits there, dormant. It's a tiny molecule. It just sits in the corner, like so much cellular dust.
> I've never heard of selenium yeast. I wonder where you get it. I'll have to google it and see.
Yeast cultures are fed a selenium-enriched diet, usually in the form of sodium selenite, or selenic acid. The yeast do the conversion for you, converting some of the cellular cysteine and methionine to their respective selenium forms. Those forms are already active. No further conversion is necessary, although some futher conversion does occur, as in the formation of the selenium dependent form of superoxide dismutase (SOD).
> Anyway, very curious as to what happens to the selenium/mercury duo after they bond. ???As far as I know, the mercury just stops being a toxic heavy metal, and becomes a tissue-bound inert heavy metal.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 23:14:04
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » Larry Hoover, posted by blueberry on June 20, 2006, at 19:10:11
> One more question Larry. Your post was so detailed and technical it was a little over my head. I was wondering...
>
> What about selenium supplements from the drug store or selenium in multivitamins. Do those forms of selenium bind to mercury, or is that form of selenium not useful against mercury?All selenium supps are useful against mercury. I was suggesting the most active form, being seleno-cysteine and seleno-methionine, as opposed to their precursors, the various selenium salts/chelates. Selenium yeast only has a few percent by weight of the seleno-amino acids, but it's just that much readier to go into use in the body.
The time-frame I mentioned, one month at the higher dose of 400 mcg, was in specific response to HM's living in a hot zone. There is some potential for the seleno-aminos to also give greater likelihood of adverse effects, so the briefer course was a balance of the two opposing trends.
> Does the selenium bind to the mercury and neutralize its damaging effects, or does the selenium bind the mercury so that it can be leached out?
I do not believe the mercury is mobilized. It is detoxified, though, without question. It is made inert. Non-reactive mercury is non-toxic mercury.
Lar
Posted by blueberry on June 22, 2006, at 20:10:48
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » blueberry, posted by Larry Hoover on June 20, 2006, at 23:14:04
I got some selenium today at walmart. The ingredient label says it is selenium yeast. It's not even $4. I thought it was going to be some expensive stuff I would have to order.
Since the earliest dentist appointment isn't until September, I am going to neutralize my high mercury with selenium while waiting. The fillings have to come out. Until then, and especially on the day of the fillings being removed, and for a month after, selenium will be my guard, along with high dose vitamin C and E.
I've heard cilantro helps flush mercury out of the brain, the nervous system, and the body.
Posted by Questionmark on July 6, 2006, at 0:21:33
In reply to Re: Hair Analysis, toxic levels of mercury » Larry Hoover, posted by blueberry on June 22, 2006, at 20:10:48
Larry, & others,
From what i've read, it appeared that the jury was still out on whether or not mercury-containing amalgam fillings resulted in higher mercury levels in the body/brain (at least to any meaningful extent). I thought there was still controversy over this subject (although I do know that a lot of people do believe that they are harmful). Is this true, or is the overall consensus that they are harmful & increase brain mercury levels?
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Alternative | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.