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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by saturn on April 30, 2006, at 0:30:17
Any science to back this up? I heard somewhere that somehow lowers serotonin. Anything to this?
Posted by pseudoname on April 30, 2006, at 17:47:05
In reply to can aspartame really cause depression?, posted by saturn on April 30, 2006, at 0:30:17
Ivan Goldberg thinks so. He cites this:
• Ralph G. Walton, Robert Hudak, and Ruth J. Green-Waite (1993) “Adverse Reactions to Aspartame: Double-Blind Challenge in Patients from a Vulnerable Population” Biological Psychiatry 34:13-17. Full text: http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Aspartame-Adverse-Reactions-1993.htm
“In a crossover design, subjects received aspartame 30 mg/kg/day or placebo for 7 days. … There was a significant difference between aspartame and placebo in number and severity of symptoms for patients with a history of depression, whereas for individuals without such a history there was not. We conclude that individuals with mood disorders are particularly sensitive to this artificial sweetener and its use in this population should be discouraged.”
“The project was halted by the Institutional Review Board after a total of 13 individuals had completed the study because of the severity of reactions within the group of patients with a history of depression.”
But an article in the British Medical Journal in 2004 said, “Evidence does not support links between aspartame and cancer, hair loss, depression…,” but it didn't actually cite the Walton study or rebut the depression claim. (BMJ 2004;329:755-756)
An article last year said, “Symptoms of hair loss, depression, [etc] … have all been attributed to its use, although these are unsubstantiated by published research”, but THAT article cited the one above, which despite superficially dismissing the depression claim, didn't actually look at the published research or address the topic directly. (Nutrition Bulletin, Dec 2005; 30:309 http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-3010.2005.00521.x)
Thus does conventional wisdom get passed around until it looks convincing, despite the only evidence available being contrary. I thought Ivan used to claim there were 2 studies, but I only find the one just now.
So, I don't know. I haven't noticed a difference myself in going without it for several weeks, but the effect might've gotten lost in other factors.
Are you thinking of going without aspartame, Saturn?
Posted by saturn on April 30, 2006, at 17:56:56
In reply to aspartame and depression » saturn, posted by pseudoname on April 30, 2006, at 17:47:05
Thanks for sharing that...very interesting.
> So, I don't know. I haven't noticed a difference myself in going without it for several weeks, but the effect might've gotten lost in other factors. Are you thinking of going without aspartame, Saturn?I know what you mean. I quit it for about 10 days and didn't really notice much, but after reading how it may effectively decrease serotonin in the brain I'm thinking of cutting it out (or significantly down) again for a bit longer.
-sat
Posted by nolvas on May 2, 2006, at 16:15:34
In reply to Re: aspartame and depression » pseudoname, posted by saturn on April 30, 2006, at 17:56:56
Walton, R. G., et al. Adverse reactions to aspartame: double-blind challenge in patients from a vulnerable population. Biol Psychiatry. 34(1-2):13-17, 1993.
This study was designed to ascertain whether individuals with mood disorders are particularly vulnerable to adverse effects of aspartame. Although the protocol required the recruitment of 40 patients with unipolar depression and a similar number of individuals without a psychiatric history, the project was halted by the Institutional Review Board after a total of 13 individuals had completed the study because of the severity of reactions within the group of patients with a history of depression. In a crossover design, subjects received aspartame 30 mg/kg/day or placebo for 7 days. Despite the small n, there was a significant difference between aspartame and placebo in number and severity of symptoms for patients with a history of depression, whereas for individuals without such a history there was not. Individuals with mood disorders are particularly sensitive to this artificial sweetener and its use in this population should be discouraged.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 12:30:05
In reply to aspartame and depression » saturn, posted by pseudoname on April 30, 2006, at 17:47:05
> Ivan Goldberg thinks so. He cites this:
>
> • Ralph G. Walton, Robert Hudak, and Ruth J. Green-Waite (1993) “Adverse Reactions to Aspartame: Double-Blind Challenge in Patients from a Vulnerable Population” Biological Psychiatry 34:13-17. Full text: http://www.mindfully.org/Health/Aspartame-Adverse-Reactions-1993.htmI corresponded with Professor Walton for a while. Here's what happened. After the preliminary study showed such dramatic adverse effects, he applied for funding to do a much larger and more sensitive study. Not only did it not receive any funding, all his established sources of funding dried up. Usually, he received renewable grants to fund graduate students and their research. He was stone-walled. Not a penny came his way. No grants were ever renewed. He was, effectively, forced into retirement.
I think it is absolutely telling that the company that makes aspartame was spun off onto its own. Just like Corning spun off the breast implant division. Legal protection against broad liability, limited to the assets of the smaller company.
I think that says it all.
Lar
Posted by pseudoname on May 24, 2006, at 12:57:36
In reply to Re: aspartame and depression YES! » pseudoname, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 12:30:05
Very interesting history. Thanks for posting about it.
> I corresponded with Professor Walton for a while.
Larry, your willingness to attempt and make personal contacts, widely and variously, is inspiring to me. Seriously.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 16:58:12
In reply to interesting » Larry Hoover, posted by pseudoname on May 24, 2006, at 12:57:36
> Very interesting history. Thanks for posting about it.
>
> > I corresponded with Professor Walton for a while.
>
> Larry, your willingness to attempt and make personal contacts, widely and variously, is inspiring to me. Seriously.And I, I am seriously honoured, kind sir.
Lar
Posted by cecilia on May 26, 2006, at 3:44:49
In reply to Re: interesting » pseudoname, posted by Larry Hoover on May 24, 2006, at 16:58:12
I avoid aspartame and most other artificial sweeteners, but do use a whey protein powder sweetened with stevia. What have you read about the safety of stevia? Cecilia
Posted by ravenstorm on May 30, 2006, at 9:22:04
In reply to Larry-what about stevia?, posted by cecilia on May 26, 2006, at 3:44:49
Aspartame kills me. But so does MSG. Is MSG linked to worsening mood? It also makes me sick to my stomach.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 9:58:51
In reply to interesting » Larry Hoover, posted by pseudoname on May 24, 2006, at 12:57:36
> Very interesting history. Thanks for posting about it.
>
> > I corresponded with Professor Walton for a while.
>
> Larry, your willingness to attempt and make personal contacts, widely and variously, is inspiring to me. Seriously.I am very glad for you. For your inspiration.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 10:02:21
In reply to Larry-what about stevia?, posted by cecilia on May 26, 2006, at 3:44:49
> I avoid aspartame and most other artificial sweeteners, but do use a whey protein powder sweetened with stevia. What have you read about the safety of stevia? Cecilia
I can't say it better than the wiki article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stevia
Bottom line, the FDA was told what to say. And they did.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 10:14:27
In reply to Re: Larry-what about stevia?, posted by ravenstorm on May 30, 2006, at 9:22:04
> Aspartame kills me. But so does MSG. Is MSG linked to worsening mood? It also makes me sick to my stomach.
Monosodium glutamate is simply the generic (i.e. sodium) salt of glutamic acid. Glutamic acid is: a) an amino acid, found in many foods; b) a neurotransmitter, with profound excitatory effects.
You have neurons in your gut. What it is doing in your gut, it is doing in your brain.
If you ever find yourself exposed to MSG, you don't have to endure it. I am exquisitely sensitive to the stuff. I used to eat it, plain, back in my youth. For the buzz. I may have broken something.
Now, when I get MSG-ed, I taurine. It quickly abolishes the glutamate effect. I think it is probably a molecule for molecule effect. The more MSG I got, the more taurine I need. But, maybe 15 minutes, and the whole thing is just gone. "Chinese food syndrome" has a cure.
Lar
Posted by ravenstorm on May 30, 2006, at 10:40:16
In reply to Re: Larry-what about stevia? » cecilia, posted by Larry Hoover on May 30, 2006, at 10:02:21
Hey, so my intuition may be starting to work again. I actually wondered if the taurine would help my severe reactions to MSG. It messes with my gut and brain equally and takes a day or two to subside even after mild exposure. Good to know the taurine may help. I am sure I will have to take micro micro doses of this as with anything I try to take these days. I have a sublingual ordered, but have not received it yet.
Yes, excitatory anything and my brain do not mix well!
Thanks Larry!
Posted by verne on May 30, 2006, at 18:58:50
In reply to Larry-what about stevia?, posted by cecilia on May 26, 2006, at 3:44:49
I read somewhere (maybe iherb) that stevia lowers blood pressure.
It's in the magnesium citrate powder, "Natural Calm", which I've been taking for months.
verne
Posted by honeybee on June 1, 2006, at 13:24:43
In reply to Stevia, posted by verne on May 30, 2006, at 18:58:50
And I've read that it can contain unsafe levels of lead.
Of course, nothing is totally safe. And that rumor was probably started by Nutrasweet.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:42:41
In reply to Re: Larry-what about stevia?, posted by ravenstorm on May 30, 2006, at 10:40:16
> I have a sublingual ordered, but have not received it yet.
You're welcome, but.....sublingual what? If taurine, you really don't need that. Taurine dissolves quite readily in warm water, and has a mild sweet taste. Totally without any medicine character.
Just get some bulk taurine, and keep it handy. It will abolish MSG effects in about as long as it took them to arise in the first place.
Really, these guys ought to pay me a commission.
http://www.easycart.net/BeyondACenturyInc./Amino_Acids_Single_M-Z.html
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 6:45:07
In reply to Stevia, posted by verne on May 30, 2006, at 18:58:50
> I read somewhere (maybe iherb) that stevia lowers blood pressure.
So it does. Another detail to store away.... ;-)
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 6, 2006, at 7:00:13
In reply to Re: Stevia, posted by honeybee on June 1, 2006, at 13:24:43
> And I've read that it can contain unsafe levels of lead.
Bollocks. Anything *can* contain unsafe levels of lead. There is no reason to believe stevia contains unsafe levels of lead.
I can surmise how such a scare came about, though. Lead is sweet. That's why kids eat paint chips with lead in them. There were some candies, once upon a time, that came from the Orient, once upon a place. The candies may or may not have had stevia in them, but they may have had lead in them. Chinese patent medicines with lead in them are routinely caught upon import to North America.
http://www.fda.gov/ora/fiars/ora_import_ia4506.html
> Of course, nothing is totally safe. And that rumor was probably started by Nutrasweet.
Ever since I found out that Monsanto spun off Nutrasweet as a stand-alone corporation, nothing would surprise me.
Nor do I think the FDA is working for "we, the people".
Lar
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