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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 12:59:11
Every morning I gulp down a passel of pills: Fish Oil; Vit-B Complex; SAM-e; Rhodiola; MCMH Calcium/Mag/VitD/other minerals formula; my eight pellets of Sheng Mai San. Mostly, I've figured out the dosing on my own, through researching on the internet and in various databases that I can get my hands on. Then, I repeat the process (with variations) at lunch. And then, again, when I go to dinner.
Three questions.
One: How does one figure out what the appropriate dosing time is for your vitamins and supplements?
Two: How do you figure out when you can take another herb and/or drop it? Having inhabited the world of prescription medication for so long, I'm wary of just stopping and starting medicines on a whim, but my pdoc and my regular doc don't seem very helpful.
Three: How much is too much? I had phased out Evening Primrose Oil (which I'd taken for years because of PMS fibrocystic stuff) but I apparently need to fold it back into my routine again. I'm worried about all these different meds interfering with one another, but I wonder if I'm being too paranoid, and I need to think of them as more like food and less like drugs. Or vice versa???
I know that everything we put in our bodies is important.
Thanks to whomever might have something to add--even if it's not related.
Thanks, everyone.
hb
Posted by James K on February 17, 2006, at 16:32:20
In reply to How Much Is Too Much?, posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 12:59:11
This is a great question. I'm new to really learning the results of what I put in my body, but I take huge amounts of supplements and medicines. I started to hurt my stomach, so I began to take less. I don't eat as regular as I should.
I think, just me thinking, that the closer the supplement is to a regular food, that you might just happen to eat, the safer you can feel about it.
I've read some here about the specific times to take things, like fish oil with a fatty meal, Protein powder on empty stomach?. Someone said take a break from things regular. I've currently stopped DHEA, so I don't stop my own production, such as it is. (I'm flying blind here, but when I came down with the virus that caused cfids, i got orchitis, and things were different too much info).
I take on a daily basis, script- Welbutrin 150, Lamictal 100, Clonazepam 2, Asacol 6 pills (ulcerative colitis), Ambien Cr
non-script - claritan d,
supplement. Nitroplex protein shake (in water, don't like milk) for cfs, Gnc Maximum greens shake, DHEA, centrum silver (don't want the iron), Magnesium, selenium, flax seed pill, fish oil pills 2, zinc piccolinate, ATP sublingual (cfs), ribose (cfs), Calcium mag zinc, vit e (for peyronies)2, Vit c, b12 subingual, coq10. probably more, or less, because I run out because of money or mail order delay.
Some of this is fancy specialty stuff, and some is grocery store. I've begun just leaving some in the pill trays, on whims, to keep my system guessing, and to ease the stomach load. they are spread carefully throughout the day, but it still seems ridiculous and dangerous when I write it all down.
Well I got all over honeybee's question, but I have some of the same questions, and you asked for any input
James k
Posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 17:04:45
In reply to Re: How Much Is Too Much? » honeybee, posted by James K on February 17, 2006, at 16:32:20
I *love* this, though. My husband--a committed non-medicine/pill taking kind of person (I don't understand this brand of machismo either!)--just gets wide-eyed when he comes into the bathroom to see a phalanx of concoctions, botttles, and tinctures on the countertop. (This, aside from a neti pot, which was another adventure. You can never get TMI with me, James.) People often post their supplement trials here--which I find useful, even though I know everyone's bodies are different. I suppose that's something I can add to the mix.
James, do you get a B-complex plus the B12? I just went out and bought the sublingual, assuming that I probably wasn't getting it from the multi. Is that your sense as well?
Yours in too many multi-colored spheres, ovals, and lozanges to keep track of...
hb
Posted by blueberry on February 17, 2006, at 18:07:00
In reply to How Much Is Too Much?, posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 12:59:11
Good questions. I'm no expert, but I can share my thoughts.
As for dosing times, I think the more it is spread out the better. But if side effects such as insomnia interfere, then whatever one is doing that would have to be taken earlier in the day. Basically, a steady stream I think is best. The vitamins and minerals are best taken with food.
Figuring out when to stop something depends on whether it is helping noticeably or not. Figuring out when to start a new one is, for me, a result of my doctor's suggestion or my own research. Even though I don't live in a big city, there are several naturopath doctors. You might consider that. They are well schooled in conventional medicine, licensed, medical board exams just like doctors, as well as natural medicine and in healing the entire body versus just suppressing symptoms. If they are in my sparse area, they must be somewhere near you too.
It's hard to take too much, with a few exceptions such as licorice root. A few to be careful with such as valerian or kava kava. Even though many herbs behave sort of like drugs, they are also eaten as food in other parts of the world. In addition to whatever mechanism they offer, they are packed with all kinds of good stuff. Unlike drugs, most herbs are more harmonious with the body. Some very basic herbs you might consider adding would be the ginsengs, both siberian and panax. Another good base staple herb is ginkgo. Pycnogenol is like 50 times more powerful than vitamin C at mopping up messes, but also boosts mood and replaces ritalin for some people. The periwinkle extract vinpocetine is like viagra for the brain. Ashwaganda. Schizandra. Many more. So many good choices, safe, and can be mixed however you want. Just study each one to know what any dangers of excessive doses are, and go from there. In Chinese medicine they mix unlimited amounts of herbs.
The tricky part is sampling them one at a time so you know which is doing what.
> Every morning I gulp down a passel of pills: Fish Oil; Vit-B Complex; SAM-e; Rhodiola; MCMH Calcium/Mag/VitD/other minerals formula; my eight pellets of Sheng Mai San. Mostly, I've figured out the dosing on my own, through researching on the internet and in various databases that I can get my hands on. Then, I repeat the process (with variations) at lunch. And then, again, when I go to dinner.
>
> Three questions.
>
> One: How does one figure out what the appropriate dosing time is for your vitamins and supplements?
>
> Two: How do you figure out when you can take another herb and/or drop it? Having inhabited the world of prescription medication for so long, I'm wary of just stopping and starting medicines on a whim, but my pdoc and my regular doc don't seem very helpful.
>
> Three: How much is too much? I had phased out Evening Primrose Oil (which I'd taken for years because of PMS fibrocystic stuff) but I apparently need to fold it back into my routine again. I'm worried about all these different meds interfering with one another, but I wonder if I'm being too paranoid, and I need to think of them as more like food and less like drugs. Or vice versa???
>
> I know that everything we put in our bodies is important.
>
> Thanks to whomever might have something to add--even if it's not related.
>
> Thanks, everyone.
>
> hb
Posted by blueberry on February 18, 2006, at 6:08:29
In reply to How Much Is Too Much?, posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 12:59:11
In follow up to my previous post, I wanted to play devil's advocate and play the other side.
All herbs and supplements do have the potential, just like all meds do and even some foods do, to do harm. As with anything, modest consumption is probably a good rule.
There are websites out there that claim vitamin and mineral and herbal supplementation is quackery, that a well balanced diet is all you need. They also say organic food is no better than regular. On and on. Of course, just as they claim there is no scientific evidence to support supplementation (which is false), they also fail to show any scientific evidence backing up their own claims. I have eaten an excellent well balanced diet for a long time, but it did not cure, alleviate, or prevent my problems.
No matter where you read about St Johns Wort, it will always say that there are no withdrawals when you stop. Probably the worst withdrawals of anything I've ever tried, meds or herbs, was from SJW. It was classic benzo withdrawal. Body trembling, shaking hands and knees, insomnia, panic attacks, anxiety, intense free floating fear. Serotonin and dopamine withdrawal were involved as well I'm sure. SJW is also a GABA reuptake inhibitor. Not to mention what weird things can happen when its glutamate reuptake inhibition is stopped upon withdrawal. And how it changes sodium ion current flow.
Herbs can affect through live enzymes the blood levels of other herbs.
Just some things to think about. Personally I favor supplementation. But as with all things, I think careful research and modest dosing with a sense of respect for the unknown are important. Basically I believe the potential for good is higher than the potential for bad, with a few exceptions.
Posted by honeybee on February 19, 2006, at 12:49:54
In reply to Re: How Much Is Too Much? Disclaimer., posted by blueberry on February 18, 2006, at 6:08:29
Blueberry,
This is very helpful, and thoughtful. I've been reading your posts for a long time now, and admire the amount of research and caution that you seem to be putting into your own regimen. Your thoroughness--and that of other posters on this site--is part of what inspired me to give it a go. The people with whom I've discussed going this route have all wanted to warn me to be careful, even while they seem to have a mountain of skepticism suggesting that herbs don't work. (Then why worry that they'll do anything, is my follow up.) You're right about the naturopaths. The rub is that I live in New York City, the land of plenty when it comes to alternative medicine practitioners--but also the land of jacked up price tags. Thus far, I'm finding Naturopaths costing about 250 bucks for a consulation. Since I'm supporting my husband and me on a meagre salary while he's in graduate school, it's been tough for me to justify the expense (so far). But I am going to the local herbal clinic at Pacific College and will talk to my intern and the clinic supervisor about ramping up our efforts. My current blend, Sheng Mai San, includes Schisandra in it, and I can remember the first few days on it I breathed better (I have asthma, too, and their idea is that the depression and heart/lung qi and yin deficiency are ... comorbid, so use a western term) and felt optimistic. The acupuncture seems to work wonders, too, I just wish its effects would "stick" longer...
In the meantime, I'm also going to go the library and pick up a few books to add to my growing pile and educate me in things before I try them. (Thank you University library!) The Psychopharmacology of Herbal Medicine and The Handbook of Psychotropic Herbs are top of my list. Here's to high school bio serving me while I pour through these volumes.
Thank you, again, Blueberry.
hb
Posted by tealady on March 3, 2006, at 3:28:10
In reply to How Much Is Too Much?, posted by honeybee on February 17, 2006, at 12:59:11
> Every morning I gulp down a passel of pills: Fish Oil; Vit-B Complex; SAM-e; Rhodiola; MCMH Calcium/Mag/VitD/other minerals formula; my eight pellets of Sheng Mai San. Mostly, I've figured out the dosing on my own, through researching on the internet and in various databases that I can get my hands on. Then, I repeat the process (with variations) at lunch. And then, again, when I go to dinner.
>
> Three questions.
>
> One: How does one figure out what the appropriate dosing time is for your vitamins and supplements?
>
> Two: How do you figure out when you can take another herb and/or drop it? Having inhabited the world of prescription medication for so long, I'm wary of just stopping and starting medicines on a whim, but my pdoc and my regular doc don't seem very helpful.
>
> Three: How much is too much? I had phased out Evening Primrose Oil (which I'd taken for years because of PMS fibrocystic stuff) but I apparently need to fold it back into my routine again. I'm worried about all these different meds interfering with one another, but I wonder if I'm being too paranoid, and I need to think of them as more like food and less like drugs. Or vice versa???
>
> I know that everything we put in our bodies is important.
>
> Thanks to whomever might have something to add--even if it's not related.
OK something to add .. but not how u meant:-)
Have u considered or ever tried adding selenium say, 50mcg a day to the above ?
If that doesn't work.. what kind of salt do you use.. if low iodine (and you don't have any autoimmune issues like antibodies).. maybe also consider some kelp(for a natural source of iodine) or even sea salt?
I got rid of my asthma and fibro stuff with thryoid meds.. but you can naturally increase your thyroid output(if it's too low and causing depression, fatigue, maybe asthma and fibro symptoms) with sufficient iodine or selenium or even zinc.. but only if you tend to be short on those things?
I'm interested in herbs too.. but I don't know much about them. I've just started to look at them.
I was looking at Crateva today for help with muscle tone. If you ever look at or try out this one let me know!I went back to uni to try to figure it out a bit too. I'd never done high school biology or chemistry..I've now done 1st yr uni Biology and Chem:-).
I did OK, but I still don't understand it all enough, LOL. Still access to the full text of research papers and the library is useful, as you say :-)Jan
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