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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 10, 2005, at 16:24:58
Why do some chemical supply companies say that uridine is dangerous if ingested. It is being tested for depression, I was thinking of obtaining it but I dont want anything poisonous, what is the deal?
Posted by nolvas on November 11, 2005, at 6:55:25
In reply to Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 10, 2005, at 16:24:58
This is the study you are referring to? (see below) It doesn't mention dosage, and was used in conjunction with Omega 3 Fatty acids. I haven't seen any safety issues raised, maybe uridine is unsafe at a certain dosage or a different form of uridine is unsafe? Since the study doesn't give any information of dosage I would find it hard to supplement with Uridine until I knew the dosage levels. It's also not available as a supplement yet so maybe you have an alternative source?
Carlezon, W. A., Jr., et al. Antidepressant-like effects of uridine and omega-3 fatty acids are potentiated by combined treatment in rats. Biol Psychiatry. 57(4):343-350, 2005.Department of Psychiatry, Harvard Medical School, McLean Hospital, Belmont, Massachusetts, USA.
Brain phospholipid metabolism and membrane fluidity may be involved in the pathophysiology of mood disorders. The authors demonstrated previously that cytidine, which increases phospholipid synthesis, has antidepressant-
like effects in the forced swim test (FST) in rats, a model used in depression research. Because cytidine and uridine both stimulate synthesis of cytidine 5'-diphosphocholine (CDP-choline, a critical substrate for phospholipid synthesis), the authors examined whether uridine would also produce antidepressant-like effects in rats. They also examined the effects of omega-3 fatty acids (OMG), which increase membrane fluidity and reportedly have antidepressant effects in humans, alone and in combination with uridine. The authors first examined the effects of uridine injections alone and dietary supplementation with OMG alone in the FST. They then combined sub-
effective treatment regimens of uridine and OMG to determine whether these agents would be more effective if administered together. Uridine dose-dependently reduced immobility in the FST, an antidepressant-like effect. Dietary supplementation with omega-3 fatty acids reduced immobility when given for 30 days, but not for 3 or 10 days. A sub-effective dose of uridine reduced immobility in rats given sub-effective dietary supplementation with Uridine and OMG each have antidepressant-like effects in rats. Less of each agent is required for effectiveness when the treatments are administered together.http://www.nvo.com/shildtfinancial/sv003data/view.nhtml?profile=sv003data&UID=12547
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 8:44:06
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by nolvas on November 11, 2005, at 6:55:25
Check out the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for uridine, it looks dangerous. You can get Uridine from chemical supply stores. Sciencelab.com is one source, but Im not sure its the same one being used in the studies. The uridine on sciencelab.com says its a reagent. Other sites Ive seen uridine sold as URIDINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE. Anyways here is the link for the MSDS of uridine.
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925394
Posted by nolvas on November 11, 2005, at 11:07:07
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 8:44:06
Well reagent just means it's used in chemical reactions, used to detect or measure another substance or to convert one substance into another by chemical reaction.
I can't see anything that makes me think it's really dangerous. The problem is you don't know the dosage and only a very small amount might have been used in the study.
Dietary Sources of Uridine
Herbs: Caterpillar Fungus
Vegetables: Garlic
Sugar BeetsDescription
Uridine is a type of Nucleoside present in all living cells.
Doesn't seem dangerous to me, try and find out the dosage, also it's more effective with Omega 3.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 13:34:49
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by nolvas on November 11, 2005, at 11:07:07
> Well reagent just means it's used in chemical reactions, used to detect or measure another substance or to convert one substance into another by chemical reaction.
>
> I can't see anything that makes me think it's really dangerous. The problem is you don't know the dosage and only a very small amount might have been used in the study.
>
> Dietary Sources of Uridine
>
> Herbs: Caterpillar Fungus
> Vegetables: Garlic
> Sugar Beets
>
> Description
>
> Uridine is a type of Nucleoside present in all living cells.
>
> Doesn't seem dangerous to me, try and find out the dosage, also it's more effective with Omega 3.How about this, does this seem dangerous??
Uridine Ingestion:
Do not induce vomiting. Loosen tight clothing such as a collar, tie, belt or waistband. If the victim is not breathing, perform mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. Seek immediate medical attention.
Posted by JLx on November 11, 2005, at 14:02:09
In reply to Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 10, 2005, at 16:24:58
If you haven't already seen it, you might find this previous thread on uridine of interest: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050323/msgs/481903.html
I've been taking magnesium orotate (1 gm/day) and CDP choline recently. I can't tell if it's helped because I've had a lot of stuff going on. And I see in reviewing that thread again that I don't think I've been taking enough CDP choline.
In theory though, the combo should produce more uridine.
JL
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 16:34:41
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe? » RedSoxFan79, posted by JLx on November 11, 2005, at 14:02:09
> If you haven't already seen it, you might find this previous thread on uridine of interest: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050323/msgs/481903.html
>
> In theory though, the combo should produce more uridine.
>
> JL
How about cytidine, Im sure uridine and cytidine are related?
Antidepressant-like effects of cytidine in the forced swim test in rats
by
Carlezon WA, Pliakas AM, Parow AM,
Detke MJ, Cohen BM, Renshaw PF.
Department of Psychiatry,
Harvard Medical School,
McLean Hospital, Belmont,
Massachusetts 02478, USA
Biol Psychiatry. 2002 Jun 1;51(11):882-9ABSTRACT
BACKGROUND: Altered brain phospholipid metabolism may be involved in the pathophysiology of cocaine dependence and mood disorders. Evidence suggests that citicoline, a rate-limiting metabolite for phospholipid synthesis, reduces cocaine craving in human addicts. Because antidepressants can reduce cocaine craving, we explored in rats the possibility that citicoline has antidepressant effects. We also tested the primary metabolites of citicoline, cytidine and choline. METHODS: We examined if citicoline or metabolites alter immobility in the forced swim test. We used two scoring methods: latency to become immobile, a simple method that identifies antidepressants, and behavioral sampling, a complex method that differentiates antidepressants according to pharmacological mechanisms. RESULTS: Over a range of doses, citicoline did not affect behavior in the forced swim test. At molar equivalent doses, cytidine dramatically decreased immobility, whereas choline tended to increase immobility. The effects of cytidine resemble those of desipramine, a standard tricyclic antidepressant. None of the treatments affected locomotor activity, and cytidine did not establish conditioned place preferences. CONCLUSIONS: Citicoline does not have effects in the forced swim test, but its primary metabolites have opposing effects: cytidine has antidepressant-like actions, whereas choline has prodepressant-like actions. At antidepressant doses, cytidine lacks stimulant and rewarding properties. This is the first report of potential antidepressant effects of cytidine
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 17:05:09
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 16:34:41
Baby formulas like Nestle's good start have uridine and cytidine, not much but its better than nothing.
Posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 19:32:47
In reply to Baby Formula: Uridine and Cytidine, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 17:05:09
Anyone know the difference between theses two?
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2005, at 17:31:42
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 8:44:06
> Check out the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for uridine, it looks dangerous. You can get Uridine from chemical supply stores. Sciencelab.com is one source, but Im not sure its the same one being used in the studies. The uridine on sciencelab.com says its a reagent. Other sites Ive seen uridine sold as URIDINE 5'-MONOPHOSPHATE. Anyways here is the link for the MSDS of uridine.
>
> http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9925394Check out the MSDS for sodium chloride....
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/S3338.htm
It has a lower LD50 than uridine, and check out this part "Very large doses can cause vomiting, diarrhea, and prostration. Dehydration and congestion occur in most internal organs. Hypertonic salt solutions can produce violent inflammatory reactions in the gastrointestinal tract."
Once you've read a few MSDS's, you start to see that there's a hazard to everything.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2005, at 17:43:58
In reply to Uridine or Uridine 5-monophosphate, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 11, 2005, at 19:32:47
> Anyone know the difference between theses two?
Uridine is a nucleoside. Uridine-5'-monophosphate is a nucleotide.
There, isn't that better? :-p
The phosphated form, the nucleotide, is a constituent of RNA, all ready to go.
Somehow, if one is following the research and where it is leading us, somehow increasing RNA concentrations, particularly cytidine and uridine (so far), seems to be antidepressant. In rats. Based on tail-flicking.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2005, at 17:46:27
In reply to Re: Uridine or Uridine 5-monophosphate » RedSoxFan79, posted by Larry Hoover on December 7, 2005, at 17:43:58
> > Anyone know the difference between theses two?
>
> Uridine is a nucleoside. Uridine-5'-monophosphate is a nucleotide.
>
> There, isn't that better? :-p
>
> The phosphated form, the nucleotide, is a constituent of RNA, all ready to go.
>
> Somehow, if one is following the research and where it is leading us, somehow increasing RNA concentrations, particularly cytidine and uridine (so far), seems to be antidepressant. In rats. Based on tail-flicking.
>
> LarSorry, this was forced swimming, not tail flicking.
L
Posted by aabag on December 8, 2005, at 1:18:33
In reply to Is Uridine safe?, posted by RedSoxFan79 on November 10, 2005, at 16:24:58
Then, all this news about tests with uridine and Omega 3, where is the literature on the dosage?
I'd still like to find out whether this stuff is safe? Particularly the reagent you buy from the science labs (C9H12N2O6). AS you said, sciencelab.com MSDS would lead you to believe this stuff is dangerous. The LD50 on rats as 4300+mg/kg, which is an enormous dose, so it doesn't "sound" dangerous.
Posted by aabag on December 8, 2005, at 14:24:58
In reply to Re: Is Uridine safe?, posted by aabag on December 8, 2005, at 1:18:33
Now, if you consider NucleoMaxx has 36g packets at 17% nucleosides, that right there would indicate a safe dose of uradine between 0 and approximately 6 grams.
Taking 71.7mg/kg (number from the study) on your 75 kg human being (165 pounds) would equate to a 5.3 g dose, which is consistent with the range of 0 to 6.
Now, I'm not saying go ingest 5 grams of this stuff, or perhaps 1.5 grams 2 to 3 times daily, just that this dosage range seems reasonable given the study numbers and the NucleoMaxx numbers.
In looking at the study, which is the Feb. 15, 2005 Biological Psychiatry journal, the dose (on rats, not humans) which became effective for the Forced swim test (animal antidepressant model) was 71.7 mg/kg when co-administered with Omega 3 fatty acids for 10 days.
This is the end of the thread.
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