![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 33. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 22:14:53
This is my first post, hopefully this info will help some people out or at least give them something to think about. If you have been taking Adderall for a while and are getting discouraged with weaking effets and more side effect/higher dose, this thread may help you. Anyways, I have been taking Adderall for 3 years now (27 y.o. male) with enough positive results for me and my DOC to warrant its continued use. However, as I have gotten older especially in the last year, the positive effects are not as apparent and they dont last as long as before. While the negative effects are increasing more in number and duration. I take it for Depression(dysthymia with significant fatigue)/ADHD. It works better for my depression, actually its the only thing thats worked the best on the most number of symptoms. I take 20 mg in the morning and then 10 in the afternoon. I take the 20 mg about 30 minutes before i have to get out of bed in the morning and I get a great start to the day and have the energy and focus to be productive at work. I have had a physical done and some blood work (thyroid, testosterone, liver, kidney) all came back fine. Im 5'11 180 pounds, in good health.
But as I stated Adderall is starting to shift to predominantly negative effects. At 5 pm at the end of the work day I feel like a zombie. I have no emotions, no excitement, have a dominating BLAH feeling. Its like my brain has shut off, I come home and sit on the couch and stare at TV for 5 hours feeling lifeless. Almost like the symptoms of NEGATIVE schizophrenia. This never happened the first couple years on Adderall, and I started out on 20 mg so I havent increased dose much. Before, I would be feeling great all the way through the night, have tons of energy, be happy and productive. My doctor and I have been working together to find an effective augmentor to bring the adderall back to full swing. I have tried a couple mood stabilizers, a couple anti-psychotics, strattera, provigil, Namenda, a couple SSRI's. Celexa had marginal success but had a bunch of problems of its own.
I have also tried supplements like amino Acids L-tyrosine, B vitamins, fish oil, choline, etc. Not much help there. So during one of my brilliant adderall induced brainstorming episodes I came up with an idea. It seems that my brain is totally zapped by 5 pm, basically turned off. My brain needs to reboot and get a spark and turn back on, Adderall would do this but Im not taking another dose to feel good a couple hours and worse the rest of the night. Intense exercise at this point os out of the question as all motivation has vanished. Then one day I stumbled upon something.
I was reading an article online about a study that was done (in Australia) which showed that individuals that regulary ate chili (hot) peppers as part of their diet had higher quality sleep(more refreshing), fell asleep quicker, and awoke feeling more energized. This got me intrigued, so I started reading more about hot peppers. The chemicals that gives them their heat are called CAPSAICINOIDS, the hottest and most studied capsaicinoid is called "Capsaicin." I became fascinated with the properties and health benefits of Capsaicin. Some peppers have more Capsaicin then others. Pepper heat is measured in a scale called Scoville units. Regular bell peppers are not hot and have no Capsaicin and are a 0 on the Scoville scale. Jalapeno's range from 1,000 to 10,000 Scoville Units. Cayenne range 30,000 to 50,000 Scoville Units. Habaneros(Name comes from Havana, their origin) range from 200,000 to 400,000 Scoville Units. Police Grade pepper spray is 2 million Scoville Units. PURE CAPSAICIN HAS A RATING OF 16 MILLION Scoville Units!!! OUCH.
The more I understood about Capsaicin, the more I realized its potential in helping me. In the beginning, Adderall was alot more pleasure and alot less pain. This is partly because amphetamines (Adderall) release endorphins in the brain. However, with long term amphetamine use, the receptors (opioid) that bind with endorphins are down-regulated by the brain. Your brain is getting enough endorphin actavation while adderall is in your system, but when it wears off your brain is reducing less endorphins and you have less receptors. ALSO, long term amphetamine usage has been shown to increase Substance P, another chemical (neuropeptide) involved in pain and depression. Increased Substance P levels have been found in patients with depression and chronic pain.
OK, so what does this have to do with Capsaicin and its ability to help me. Well, three things. First of all, eating hot peppers releases endorphins in the brain, the hotter the pepper the better the rush. So I determined this is one scientifically proven way to compensate for decreased opioid neurotransmission in my brain. Secondly, eating hot peppers regularly significantly depletes the bodys levels of Substance P and desensitizes neurons to painful stimuli. Finally, the most amazing thing that Capsaicin does is trick the brain into thinking you are being burned. My theory was that if I was to eat a pepper hot enough, my brain would be forced to respond and wake up from its burned out post adderall funk. If pleasure and pain originate in the same area of the brain (nucleus accumbens) then it may be worth a shot. My pleasure neurons have been getting used so much from adderall that they could be overworked who knows. Too much of a good thing can be harmful, so maybe I hd to try and balance it out with some pain, kind of like Ying/Yang. Well, that was my reasoning and so I decided I would give it a try.
SO I decided to go to the supermarket on a saturday(this is approx 1 month ago) to buy some habanero peppers. These are the hottest peppers available, with an average rating between 200,00-400,000. Please keep in mind that the hottest thing I have eaten before are Jalapenos and tabasco sauce which are WEAK. Anyways, once I got home I mustered up the courage to begin. I cracked open one of theses peppers (they are small) and began rubbing it all over my tongue and lips and inside of cheeks then finally chewing it and swallowing it. It started off as a minor tingling, but then after about 15-20 seconds WOW. Oh my Gog, my mouth and tongue were BURNING, INCREDIBLE PAIN. My face was flushed and I felt really warm. Saliva, Mucous, and tears started flowing from my face so I placed a large bowl on my lap to collect it all. I closed my eyes, grabbed my IPOD and put on the earphones and started playing loud music to drown out the pain. It just fueled the fire more. I dont think I have felt this much pain ever. My brain started going into a rage, I stood up and started kicking and punching the air and becoming very aggressive. MY BRAIN HAD AWOKEN. This proceeded in intensity for another 15-20 minutes and then slowly but surely I started to relax. After about 45 minutes- an hour I felt incredibly relaxed and calm, very warm and content. I managed to produce approximately 6 ounces of bodily fluids, HA. That night I fell asleep very peacefuly and awoke feeling very peaceful and tranquil. My desire for adderall was less.
So, I have been doing this about three days a week for 4 weeks now. Ill do it when I get home from work and that dreadful burnout that adderall leaves me with Vanishes as soon as the pain kicks in. I have moved on from Habanero peppers, to an extremely hot hot sauce that has pure Capsaician crystals mixed in. It registers 7 million Scoville Units. It is a more direct and concentrated way to accomplish my goal. The heat is significantly worse with the hot sauce than the habaneros, but the endorphin calm is more intense.
Some of you may think Im crazy, who knows maybe I am but I feel alot more balanced and less anxious since starting this. The adderall is working BETTER, not 100 percent like it was when I first started it, but its better. I feel more of the antidepressant/social effects, and much less anxiety which indirectly helps my concentration. I have asthma and this has improved my breathing immensely and clears out alot of congestion.
There are alot more benefits as well: It increases circulation through its natural ability to conduct thermal heat, It stimulates the production of digestive juices, protects against stomach damage caused by alcohol, it protects the heart, increases metabolic activity and burns calories, is effective in topical creams against arthritis, drains congested nasal passages (BIG TIME), It is being studied as a treatment for IBS and also Sensory Nerve Fiber Disorders, Reduces redness, pain and itching from psoriasis, protecting the stomach from ulcers by killing bacteria, anti-inflammatory, shown to prevent certain types of cancer, enhancing the immune system, protect your stomach from damage by aspirin, tylenol, advil, reduce risk of pneumonia. One more thing, I havent found any studies showing permanent damage to taste buds, only that there is temporary desensitization.
I dont sell hot sauce or peppers or anything, I just thought I should describe my experience, as odd as it sounds. This definitely isnt for the faint of heart, you have to be willing to put yourself through hell to get the benefits. Start off easy and work your way up. But, If you are disciplined to do it 3 times a week you will start to see benefits. I definitely feel more resilient, less afraid of pain. I feel like I can tolerate stress more. Oh, and one very important thing: If any other males do this, make sure you wash your hands before you pee, or else you will be hurting pretty bad. I can provide sources/studies referencing any info in this post if you would like.
I will end this post with a paragraph from an article I read, and will link to it also. If you managed to read through this whole post, I applaud you. Take Care
The biological properties of capsaicin are many, ranging from being a pain reducer, to an activator of the reward pathway. Being a desensitizer in the pain pathway infers its potential use as a drug to aid in chronic pain disorder. Though research is well on it's way, more has yet to be learned about the mechanisms of action, and the possible risks involved in taking it as a drug. In the meantime, the hundreds of thousands of people out there can continue to enjoy the pleasurable effects of eating chili peppers. And for those people who don't have a tolerance for chili peppers, my advice for them is to build one, they will find it most rewarding!
http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/ 165_001/papers/manuscripts/_559.html
Posted by Schess81 on October 21, 2005, at 22:14:53
In reply to Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:16
I read your whole post and I have to admit I am intrigued. So I gather that the pain of the peppers must be endured for the positive effects to kick in? Too bad you cant just take a pepper pill or something. I dunno if I'll have the courage to give it a try..
Posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 23:45:29
In reply to very interesting, posted by Schess81 on October 21, 2005, at 21:49:26
> I read your whole post and I have to admit I am intrigued. So I gather that the pain of the peppers must be endured for the positive effects to kick in? Too bad you cant just take a pepper pill or something. I dunno if I'll have the courage to give it a try..
Congratulations on reading that whole post. I am a new poster but I have learned of the respect Larry Hoover has on this board, so I am requesting he reads my original post and offer any thoughts. Anyways, you are precisely right, the pain MUST be endured; but I am researching on something that may help reduce the sensation of pain without lessening positive effects (more on that later). Think of what happens when you exercise intensely, you push it to the limit and it hurts but eventually endorphins and you get runners high (if you exercised hard enough). Itts similar to eating the hot peppers. Your brain thinks your are being burned, you feel massive pain for what seeems like forever, then all of a sudden you start feeling great, endorphins kick in. It is the intense pain that makes the brain pump out endorphins. If you want the great feelings without the pain, there is always Morphine or Heroin or Oxycontin. Seriously though, I just got back from going out with some co-workers who have been asking me to go out for a long time. I finally went out and felt great and didnt get all nervous at the bar. I felt confident, I may have been panicing like I usually do but I didnt feel a thing and all I can attribute this to is my results. When you are feeling that intense pain in your mind, you are forced to almost meditate and try to block out the pain, it helps you take control of your mind. If you decide to give it a shot, start out on the less intense peppers before you move up to Habaneros or pure hot sauce. Make sure you know the scoville scale and which peppers rank where. Unlike many other supplements/herbs, there is no placebo effect with this. You will know when your mouth is on fire. One last note, if you wear contact lenses, make sure you wear some latex gloves while handling any peppers/sauce. It doesnt matter how much you wash your hands, if you handle a hot pepper and try to put in a lens in your eye, you will be hurting big time. Take Care.
Posted by FireBreather on October 22, 2005, at 0:41:53
Linkadge-Hi I am a new poster but have read quite a few posts of yours and I respect your knowledge, insight, and experiences. I posted a pretty long post title "Finally Discovered how to augment adderall" on Friday. Check it out and let me know what your thoughts. Thank you
PS. I know there are lots of knowledgable people that post here, I dont mean to be singling one person out over others, so please anyone comment. Cheers
Posted by MM on October 22, 2005, at 3:00:58
In reply to Linkadge-requesting your opinion/thoughts, posted by FireBreather on October 22, 2005, at 0:41:53
I'm still really lost about how the brain works, but if you keep doing this, is there any chance you would burn out your endorphin? receptors? like the way a heroin addict has to keep taking more and more to feel the effects?....Also, I have no problem with jalapenos, or some sauces that are labeled HOT...I'm sure those aren't close to as hot as the peppers you describe, but what were your reactions to them before you tried this? I love eating hot mexican food because I can feel my body "cleansing" or so it seems (with sweating and sinuses getting cleared...lol, kind of graphic, sorry). Anyway, I find this intriguing as well. And I like the name, lol.
Posted by lunesta on October 22, 2005, at 8:06:31
In reply to Re: Linkadge-requesting your opinion/thoughts » FireBreather, posted by MM on October 22, 2005, at 3:00:58
this has more to due with substance P /NK1 receptors than anything. endorphins are invovved but SP/NK1 desensitation occurs. substance P is involved in sleep/anciety/pain/food intake/emesis/depresion etc..
JL
Posted by FireBreather on October 22, 2005, at 9:39:07
In reply to Re: Linkadge-requesting your opinion/thoughts » FireBreather, posted by MM on October 22, 2005, at 3:00:58
> I'm still really lost about how the brain works, but if you keep doing this, is there any chance you would burn out your endorphin? receptors? like the way a heroin addict has to keep taking more and more to feel the effects?....Also, I have no problem with jalapenos, or some sauces that are labeled HOT...I'm sure those aren't close to as hot as the peppers you describe, but what were your reactions to them before you tried this? I love eating hot mexican food because I can feel my body "cleansing" or so it seems (with sweating and sinuses getting cleared...lol, kind of graphic, sorry). Anyway, I find this intriguing as well. And I like the name, lol.
Well, in my opinion I dont think there will be any negative effects on the endorphin system/receptors. I feel that it works on the same level (to an extent) as exercise. Millions of people are addicted to exercise cuz it makes them feel good, it can cause "runners high" which is when your brain releases endorphins, among other things. Drugs like morphine or heroin or even amphetamine have negative effects long term on endorphin simply because they are drugs and our brain knows this, so it compensates. However, responding to pain (or virtual pain caused by peppers) is what the brain is programmed to do, so I feel that the endorphins are only being asked to do what they were meant to do, not something fake like drugs. If I eat a bunch of onions, then pretty soon I will have gas. If I eat onions everyday, I would have gas everyday. My "Gas receptors" LOL are not going to stop working, they are doing there job. As far as needing more, I havent noticed that yet. But if that did happen then that could be considered a good thing. Its showing you are becoming more resilient to pain. Like exercise, start off jogging 1 mile and eventually that becomes easy. You then go to 2 miles. Eventually thats easy. Eventually you will find your threshold where tolerance would not be an option because the effects are so intense, I hope that makes some sense.
My reactions to eating jalapenos/tabasco sauce or mexican food were a tingling in the tongue followed by MINOR pain, and MINOR flushing. The effects from eating a Raw Jalapeno compared to a raw Habanero are laughable. Like being punched by a child vs. being punched by Mike Tyson. On the Scoville Scale (the way to measure heat from peppers) Jalapenos are between One thousand and ten thousand. Habaneros are 200,000 to 400,000. Keep in mind the scale goes from 0 to 16 million Scoville Units, so Habaneros are still actually kind of weak. As I described in my original post, my reaction is fierce. But then again, I am doing it because I believe long term adderall usage has altered my brain circuitry. So, I may be more sensitive than others. It is known that people with depression have a lower pain threshold, so maybe people with depression more intensely.
Sweat, Tears, Mucous, and saliva literally flow from my face. The pain is excruciating, its not a sharp pain. It starts off tingling and then keeps building until it is very intense. It also causes me to get angry and aggressive, but its really a good release, lets out alot of stress. I started with Habaneros which was a bit extreme to start with in my opinion. Now I am using a hot sauce that has a Scoville Rating of 7 million. It has pure capsaicin crystals in it. Its like the Habaneros, but another level of suffering. I may start alternating between Habaneros and the sauce cuz the Habaneros have other heat inducing chemicals besides Capsaicin, but capsaicin is the hottest of all of them and is the most studied. Im definitely interested in hearing if you or anyone may experiment with this. I dont have a hangover or feel like crap this morning which is pretty interesting, I went out last night for the first time in a while. Take Care
Posted by FireBreather on October 22, 2005, at 9:50:09
In reply to Re: Linkadge-requesting your opinion/thoughts, posted by lunesta on October 22, 2005, at 8:06:31
> this has more to due with substance P /NK1 receptors than anything. endorphins are invovved but SP/NK1 desensitation occurs. substance P is involved in sleep/anciety/pain/food intake/emesis/depresion etc..
>
> JLThe immediate effects you get the first time are endorphins, this is what keeps you coming back again. However, lunesta is correct in that over time the substance P/NK1 system comes into play, although I am still getting a great endorphin rush after the pain wears off. My ability to tolerate pain and stress is better, thanks to Substance P/NK1.
Heres a paragraph from an article I can link to stating that Capsaicin causes release of beta-endorphins.
How do Beta-endorphin, heat, and protons relate to CapsaicinÕs potential as a therapeutic? Beta-endorphin obviously relieves pain, a good feature for any analgesic agent. The fact that heat activates Substance P release demonstrates what types of pain Capsaicin would be most effective in treating. Capsaicin is most useful for treating chronic, burning pains, the best known example of which is Arthritis. This comes back to the fact that Substance P has a wide array of functions in addition to its role as a neurotransmitter. Substance P stimulates the inflammatory response in most leukocytes, and also activates keratinocytes, endothelial and epithelial cells, and fibroblasts (Lotz, 1994). Much of these interactions depend on Substance PÕs cellular environment, and are mediated by various neuropeptides, growth factors, and cytokines. The inflammatory response produces a burning sensation, which is a direct what types of stimuli activate the VR1 receptor, mediating the release of Substance P. Receptor function, the type of pain sensed as a result, and the potential therapeutic treatment become logically interrelated. Incidentally, these observations explain why we perceive chili peppers as ÒhotÓ inside our mouths. There is also reportedly a pepper ÒhighÓ associated with large amounts of pepper consumption. This refers to a short, fleeting, sense of euphoria and analgesia people sometimes may experience after eating a lot of hot peppers. Considering that Capsaicin causes the release of Beta-endorphin, which is many times more potent than Morphine inside of the CNS, this phenomena makes a great deal of sense.
Posted by blueberry on October 22, 2005, at 17:39:19
In reply to Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:16
I wonder, is there a supplement available to take high concentrations without burning the mouth? I mean, it would still burn in the stomach and the body would know something was on fire. I wonder if burning the mouth is crucial for it to work? Or could it be taken in a supplement form and swallowed as a capsule? What do you think? Just curious.
Posted by linkadge on October 23, 2005, at 10:58:19
In reply to Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:16
There are a number of reasons why hot peppers could improve your overall condition.
In the same class (I believe) are ginger root, and turmeric are also considered "hot spices". I have had a lot of sucess with ginger root.
There is the aspect of inflammation too. Hot spices are powerfull anti-inflamitory agents.
Too much inflamation supresses neurogenesis. A stimulant may be creating an overall inflamitory situation.
I would say that if your intuition tells you that it is making a difference, then go with it.Many years ago I told my doctor that my depression actually improved with folic acid. He said that was nonsence. Later there came out the study that folic acid actually imrpoved certain individuals responce to antidepressants.
So I think the bottom line with alternatives is try lots of things, and go with your gut :)
Linkadge
Posted by Tom Twilight on October 23, 2005, at 17:27:55
In reply to Re: Finally discovered how to augment Adderall » FireBreather, posted by blueberry on October 22, 2005, at 17:39:19
Its great to have a discussion on such an interesting subject!
I love hot food, but I don't get to eat it that often because I live with my pairents, so I don't cook for myself much.
I also live in the UK, land of the bland!
With the notable exception of Indian food
As well as effecting endorphins I remeber reading somewere that capsicum causes monamine releaseI wonder whether one does have to experience the pain to get the benefits from chilli?
Are all those Capsicum supplements a waste of time?
Posted by baclofen on October 24, 2005, at 0:26:09
In reply to Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:16
i know what you mean about the chilli peppers, it dies help. here are a few other tricks.
naphazoline eye drops
picamilon
vinpocetine
adrafinil
these all work for me
Posted by lunesta on October 24, 2005, at 0:26:10
In reply to Re: Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by baclofen on October 22, 2005, at 15:27:03
most of those items dialate blood vessels of some sort increasing blood flow.
Posted by JLx on October 24, 2005, at 13:23:46
In reply to Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by FireBreather on October 21, 2005, at 19:31:16
I don't like hot food and know there is no way I'm putting even an habanero in my mouth.
I see that Nature's Way makes some cayenne capsules, in different degress of "hotness":
http://www.iherb.com/cayenne.html .25% Capsaicin • 40,000 H.U.
http://www.iherb.com/capsicool.html CapsiCool® provides the benefits of Cayenne (40,000 Heat Units) without causing burning or stomach discomfort. The CapsiCool® System uses Ginger and Glucomannan to gently control the heat of Cayenne.
http://www.iherb.com/cayennegngr.html Cayenne (Capiscum annuum) is a blood-red warming herb that has an invigorating effect on several body systems. Ginger is an aromatic bitter herb that stimulates digestion. Special blending maintains a consistent potency of 40,000 HU (Heat Units) by weight.
http://www.iherb.com/cayenne2.html Extra Hot Formula: Our 100,000 hu "certi-fiery" cayenne is the strength most sought after by experienced cayenne consumers.
Might capsules like this have any affect on depression via reducing substance P, inflammation or whatever? They're not very expensive.
JL
Posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 15:34:11
In reply to Re: Cayenne capsules?, posted by JLx on October 24, 2005, at 13:23:46
> I don't like hot food and know there is no way I'm putting even an habanero in my mouth.
>
> I see that Nature's Way makes some cayenne capsules, in different degress of "hotness":
>
> http://www.iherb.com/cayenne.html .25% Capsaicin • 40,000 H.U.
>
> http://www.iherb.com/capsicool.html CapsiCool® provides the benefits of Cayenne (40,000 Heat Units) without causing burning or stomach discomfort. The CapsiCool® System uses Ginger and Glucomannan to gently control the heat of Cayenne.
>
> http://www.iherb.com/cayennegngr.html Cayenne (Capiscum annuum) is a blood-red warming herb that has an invigorating effect on several body systems. Ginger is an aromatic bitter herb that stimulates digestion. Special blending maintains a consistent potency of 40,000 HU (Heat Units) by weight.
>
> http://www.iherb.com/cayenne2.html Extra Hot Formula: Our 100,000 hu "certi-fiery" cayenne is the strength most sought after by experienced cayenne consumers.
>
> Might capsules like this have any affect on depression via reducing substance P, inflammation or whatever? They're not very expensive.
>
> JL
>First of all, let me reiterate that the reason why I started this crazy trial of hot peppers was to augment adderall. Its not the only thing I take. Im not sure If it would be working as well without me also taking adderall. And adderall keeps me motivated and focused so I am able to be patient and keep doing this and not giving up after the first time. Now then, that being said, actually I picked up some cayenne capsules about a month ago when i first started my hot pepper trial. It is called Cool Cayenne, It does not burn the stomach cuz there is ginger and a couple other things in the cap to soothe the burn. On the days I use the hot sauce instead of eating the hot peppers I will also take a cayenne to get some capsaicin in the gut. The caps are only rated 40,000 S.U. on the heat scale which is pretty weak considering the scale goes up to 16 million. But like I said, they put ginger and other stuff in it and you dont feel pain. No pain means no Enorphin release and no decreasing Substance P levels, which Im actually gonna talk about more in my other post as well as a couple other possible ways Capsaicin could be helping and the capsules could produce theses effects Im talkin about.
Tonight, Im gonna try somethin a bit different. Im gonna empty out a capsule so theres nothing at all in it, and fill it with my hot sauce, prob about halfway. The hot sauce I use is rated 7 million S.U. on the scale. Eating the peppers gives a bit of a burn in the stomach but not much cuz alot of the capsaicin binds to the receptors in your mouth. So now my gut will get an experience. I have a feeling its gonna be like napalm.
Posted by JLx on October 24, 2005, at 17:38:55
In reply to Re: Cayenne capsules?, posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 15:34:11
Yes, I read your whole first post and all others and understand you are augmenting Adderall. I'm just interested in the whole idea and what else capaiscin might do, such as improve circulation in general.
JL
> > I don't like hot food and know there is no way I'm putting even an habanero in my mouth.
> >
> > I see that Nature's Way makes some cayenne capsules, in different degress of "hotness":
> >
> > http://www.iherb.com/cayenne.html .25% Capsaicin • 40,000 H.U.
> >
> > http://www.iherb.com/capsicool.html CapsiCool® provides the benefits of Cayenne (40,000 Heat Units) without causing burning or stomach discomfort. The CapsiCool® System uses Ginger and Glucomannan to gently control the heat of Cayenne.
> >
> > http://www.iherb.com/cayennegngr.html Cayenne (Capiscum annuum) is a blood-red warming herb that has an invigorating effect on several body systems. Ginger is an aromatic bitter herb that stimulates digestion. Special blending maintains a consistent potency of 40,000 HU (Heat Units) by weight.
> >
> > http://www.iherb.com/cayenne2.html Extra Hot Formula: Our 100,000 hu "certi-fiery" cayenne is the strength most sought after by experienced cayenne consumers.
> >
> > Might capsules like this have any affect on depression via reducing substance P, inflammation or whatever? They're not very expensive.
> >
> > JL
> >
>
> First of all, let me reiterate that the reason why I started this crazy trial of hot peppers was to augment adderall. Its not the only thing I take. Im not sure If it would be working as well without me also taking adderall. And adderall keeps me motivated and focused so I am able to be patient and keep doing this and not giving up after the first time. Now then, that being said, actually I picked up some cayenne capsules about a month ago when i first started my hot pepper trial. It is called Cool Cayenne, It does not burn the stomach cuz there is ginger and a couple other things in the cap to soothe the burn. On the days I use the hot sauce instead of eating the hot peppers I will also take a cayenne to get some capsaicin in the gut. The caps are only rated 40,000 S.U. on the heat scale which is pretty weak considering the scale goes up to 16 million. But like I said, they put ginger and other stuff in it and you dont feel pain. No pain means no Enorphin release and no decreasing Substance P levels, which Im actually gonna talk about more in my other post as well as a couple other possible ways Capsaicin could be helping and the capsules could produce theses effects Im talkin about.
>
> Tonight, Im gonna try somethin a bit different. Im gonna empty out a capsule so theres nothing at all in it, and fill it with my hot sauce, prob about halfway. The hot sauce I use is rated 7 million S.U. on the scale. Eating the peppers gives a bit of a burn in the stomach but not much cuz alot of the capsaicin binds to the receptors in your mouth. So now my gut will get an experience. I have a feeling its gonna be like napalm.
Posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 18:11:55
In reply to Re: Finally discovered how to augment Adderall, posted by baclofen on October 22, 2005, at 15:27:03
Ok so first of all, just an update on my status. Its been approx 4.5 weeks since I first started, and I definitely feel better overall. I started in the first place hoping to augment adderall but I feel good in general. The hot peppers have definitely reduced the nervousness and elevated blood pressure during the day that is caused from Adderall.
As a result I can breathe easier and feel more calm which allows adderall's mental effects to become more evident. My stress reaction to interacting with my boss is decreased. I dont go into fight or flight mode everytime I see him.
Ok, this one might seem like a minorthing but yesterday, I went to my parents house to do laundry. I had a large load so I decided to put it all in a suitcase that has wheels so i can pull it instead of carrying from my apt to my car which is a bit of a walk. Anyways, when I was walking down the sidewalk my suitcase was making alot of noise cuz its actually made of bricks so the wheels kept making really loud knocking noises. Usually, Id get anxious and nervous in that situation cuz there were alot of people and they were lookin back, malkin around, etc.. Anyways, I didnt even realize it till later last night after I got home that I walked that whole way without a single nervous thought or any kind of self-consciousness or any anxiety, or maybe I was but I couldnt feel it.
And like I mentioned in a post I mentioned a couple days ago. This girl at my work has asked me to go out with her and her friends a few times but whenever she would call to make plans Id find some excuse not to go. I am in the process of getting back together with my girlfriend, but shes about 2000 miles away and will be for the near future. So anyways, friday night Im sittin on my couch playing playstation 2 and my cell phone rings. I look at the ID and its her. But something weird happened, I answered it. Ithought for sure Id just let it ring, but I answered it very calmly. She tells me shell be at this Irish bar in my city with her friend, I say back ok Ill meet you there at 9. I couldnt belive it, I didnt get all nervous and make up excuse, I just said yes like it was nothing. I got off the phone and thought to myself "who the hell is callin the shots up in the brain, the usual me is nowhere to be found. So, I dressed up well, and ended up having a great night, with little to no hangover in the morning.
So those are a few examples of the positive effects Im feeling mentally. Now about a few physical benefits. The enormous amount of mucous that gets drained from my nose as a result of the effects of the peppers greatly clears out my lungs and sinus' and probably collecting alot of bacteria and toxins along the way.
I have less dry mouth in the morning as a result of the massive pools of saliva that spew from my mouth. Saliva is public enemy number 1 to the oral bacteria that can cause gum disease. I am using my asthma inhaler less often as it feels like i can breathe better, but I am coughing more sometimes very deep.
The thing Im the most pleased with so far in terms of effects on physical health is the effect its having on my scalp. I never received an official diagnosis but I have bouts of alot of itching and pain and tingling which are brought on by stress which my dermatologist knew the cause before I even told her. As a result, I would get pimples on my scalp.
So the dermatologist prescribed an antibiotic. First a topical one which didnt work, but an oral one does. So when I break out, I pop a few and the symptoms reduce over a period of a few days. It comes and goes, but when its active I can feel my scalp actually tingle almost like pins and needles. I can remember times when I was in a stressul situation like traffic or worryin about a test and actually the tingling in my scalp would appear at the same time as panic symptoms like nervousness. Well, I do have some pimples on my head but I havent had any bouts of itching or tingling for 2 weeks now. Those are some of the physical positive effects I have noted.
My next post Ill talk about other pathways which Peppers may contribute to mental and physical improvements that i havent discussed yet. Ill also discuss some of my new research about Substance P in terms of how the peppers are affecting it and also what I belive is happening in my brain.
In a nutshell, I think my amygdala is being stimulated by this treatment. Ill go into detail in my next post. Finally Ill discuss my plans for my next Burn session, its gonna be the hottest yet, and finally Ill talk about my experiment Im planning, anyone know where I can get some rats???
Posted by blueberry on October 24, 2005, at 19:48:29
In reply to My Hot Pepper Trial-Update on effects and more!, posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 18:11:55
It burns both ways doesn't it? Not just going in, but coming out while sitting on the potty? Ouch! Just a thought. :-)
Posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 20:38:07
In reply to My Hot Pepper Trial-Update on effects and more!, posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 18:11:55
One thing I wanted to mention about researching Capsaicin and hot peppers is that many scientific articles and studies involve the effects of injecting capsaicin into neurons or applying capsaicin to brain areas, etc. I am focusing only on what is known about the effects of eating hot peppers and the benefits.
There a other effects from the peppers that are a result of their effects on the gastrointestinal system. When I use the hot sauce, I use tiny amounts applied to the tongue and as such the capsaicin does not reach the stomach. However, eating the peppers and cayenne capsules brings capsaicin to the stomach so you would need to eat a whole pepper or take a form of Hot pepper capsule for these.Firstly,were you aware that there are as many neurons in the gastrointestinal system as there are in the spinal cord, wow! Capsaicin stimulates the production and activity of "digestive juices" such as enhanced intestinal lipase activity, increased acid secretion by gastric mucosa, and also the disaccharidases sucrase and maltase.
Secondly, Capsaicin increases blood flow to gastric mucosa and also stimulates perfusion of gastric mucosa. What does this mean you ask? Well, it can mean a couple things. Basically it improves the ability of oxygen and nutrients to be transported to organs. Secondly, it has a beneficial effect on the gut-wall function. If gut-wall permeability is not properly maintained then you can have all kinds of bacteria and other disgusting gases and microbes escaping and wreaking havoc.
All of the positive effects that capsaicin has on the digestive system means that the food you eat will be properly digested, nutrients can be absorbed and delivered more efficiently and any vitamins or supplements you may take have a better chance of being absorbed instead of clogging up the intestines. I believe the effects on the digestive system can improve energy levels and have nothing but positive effects on mental health as well.
I want to conclude this post by at least mentioning some the benefits hot peppers have been mentioned to have but are not mentioned in some sources. Ill list them instead of summarizing them individually.
-Capsicum may interfere with the activity of monoamine oxidase inhibitors by increasing catecholamine secretion.
-Reduces liver and serum cholesterol and triglycerides
-Capsaicin incites catecholamine (epinephrine) production from the adrenal medulla
-capsaicin increases DNA synthesis and the production of collagenase and prostaglandin, which can reduce both pain and inflammation
-Hot pepper eaters are less likely to develop chronic bronchitis and emphysema, even if they smoke. (This I believe definitely)
For my last post Im going discuss Substance P and how its affected by Capsaicin and also in depression and anxiety. Also, which brain regions are involved with acute and chronic consumption of hot peppers. If you think that eating hot peppers goes no deeper than your tongue burning, you are saddly mistaken.Check this out, Substance P is present in the amygdala and hypothalamus. Scientists are able to induce defensive RAGE in cats by stimulating their amygdala with electrodes. The amygdala then signals the hypothalamus and the rage is produced. Capsaicin stimulates Vanilloid receptors VR1 on the tongue.
The signal is transmitted to brain via spinal cord. Well guess what, there are Vanilloid receptors in the amygdala. And believe me, when the heat from capsaicin is in full effect, my anger and rage goes through the roof. So this may be a way how Substance P is being used up so when I encounter stree during the day Im not reacting as severely cuz substance p is decreased.
Its not all good in the hood though, I have come across some negative findings which are harder to validate at this point in my research than positive ones.I would like to stress something: I am not some spammer pepper farmer or Hot pepper capsule seller. If people want to respond to posts and include links for sites selling something thats fine; but I have nothing to do with it. Im just a 27 year old male that has a bit of a mad scientist streak and think up some crazy ideas. Alot of my info I gathered and continue to gather is from the National Library of Medicine, also known as "PubMed" I want good info in order to make a rational, informed hypothesis. I also get some good facts from google, but I use discretion what info I feel is from a reputable site.
Posted by teejay on October 24, 2005, at 20:53:08
In reply to Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits, posted by FireBreather on October 24, 2005, at 20:38:07
"I am not some spammer pepper farmer or Hot pepper capsule seller".......Never doubted it for a second ;-)
We do think you are this boards answer to Evil Knievel though!!!
Joking aside, great posts firebreather, keep up the good work and great to hear you have found something which really works for you.
TJ
Posted by Jakeman on October 24, 2005, at 23:51:41
In reply to Re: Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits, posted by teejay on October 24, 2005, at 20:53:08
> "I am not some spammer pepper farmer or Hot pepper capsule seller".......Never doubted it for a second ;-)
>
> We do think you are this boards answer to Evil Knievel though!!!
>
> Joking aside, great posts firebreather, keep up the good work and great to hear you have found something which really works for you.
>
> TJI just ate some peppers from my yard. Tepin, hotter that than haberneros. They grow wild here.
To put out the fire in my mouth I drank a beer and ate two pieces of bread. In a minute I will run around the block.~j
Posted by FireBreather on October 25, 2005, at 15:17:28
In reply to Re: Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits, posted by Jakeman on October 24, 2005, at 23:51:41
> > "I am not some spammer pepper farmer or Hot pepper capsule seller".......Never doubted it for a second ;-)
> >
> > We do think you are this boards answer to Evil Knievel though!!!
> >
> > Joking aside, great posts firebreather, keep up the good work and great to hear you have found something which really works for you.
> >
> > TJ
>
> I just ate some peppers from my yard. Tepin, hotter that than haberneros. They grow wild here.
> To put out the fire in my mouth I drank a beer and ate two pieces of bread. In a minute I will run around the block.
>
> ~j
>Your not supposed to put the fire out, your supposed to take it, feel the burn. Thats how all the fun starts, endorphins man...
Posted by Jakeman on October 26, 2005, at 21:05:42
In reply to Re: Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits, posted by FireBreather on October 25, 2005, at 15:17:28
>
> Your not supposed to put the fire out, your supposed to take it, feel the burn. Thats how all the fun starts, endorphins man...How do you know you are not doing damage? Can these peppers burn out taste buds? Any research on this? Since I moved to the southwest I find myself wanting to spice up everything I eat. I've heard of people eating hot chile peppers first thing in the morning (maybe akin to caffeine).
warm regards ~Jake
Posted by teejay on October 26, 2005, at 21:16:36
In reply to Re: Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits » FireBreather, posted by Jakeman on October 26, 2005, at 21:05:42
If burning out a few taste buds or developing an early morning fetish for jalapenos are the worst of the side effects then I reckon hes on to a winner ;-)))
Fire starter, twisted fire starter!!! LOL
(its a song by the way just in case you didnt know)
TJ
Posted by FireBreather on October 28, 2005, at 17:28:10
In reply to Re: Hot Peppers-digestive and other benefits » Jakeman, posted by teejay on October 26, 2005, at 21:16:36
Ok you all. Lets discuss the effects on the boy short-term and long term of hot peppers (capsaicin) and exercise. Please keep in mind where talking about exercise (aerobic or anaerobic) intense enough for mood enhancing effects, and Hot peppers hot enough for intense heat.
Both raise body temperature. Both Cause Persperation. Both increase Basal Metabolic Rate. Both Cause the release of endorphins. Both cause adrenals to release epinephrine. Both increase circulation. Both have positive effects on the heart. Both improve sleep. Both reduce blood pressure (long term). Both cause short term increases AND long term decreases in Substance P.
Ok now, heres a few more similarities which I will explain in my own words. Intense aerobic exercise for long periods of time, In tense anaerobic exercise (like squating alot of weight) and the pain induced by very hot peppers seem to activate a similar emotion in my brain. For example, the squat is by far the most strenuous and intense weightlifting exercise. When I do 10 squats of 225 pounds, that at about 6 my brain starts entering a rage like state where anger and aggression and hostility in general are greatly increased until I finish the set. When the hot peppers are burning my mouth, it seems that this same part of my brain gets activated cuz I get very similar feelings, I believe this area is the amygdala, but thats my opinion.
Long term exercise causes your body to adapt and get stronger. Your body is reacting to the stress your are causing through exercise by strengthening itself. Muscles get stronger, metabolism increases, your body produces more red blood cells. Pretty soon running 2 miles or lifting 100 pounds is simple so you have to move up in intensity. I think hot peppers are causing my body to react to the pain by increasing my tolerance to pain which indirectly is making me less susceptible to pain, through decreased substance P levels.
Exercise is known to have mood enhancing and anxiety reducing effects through long term effects. I feel hot peppers have the same potential if they are consumed long enough. My brain and body are stronger, resilient and more equipped to handle stress. Could exercise and hot peppers both be increasing the threshold of the neurons in the amygdala. I belive its a possibility. Im definitely not getting stressed physiologically by things that normally would. The amygdala is where it all begins. If you want to learn more about the brain and the stress response, do a google or pub med search on the amygdala. Have a good weekend. Dont drink and drive.
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