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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 5 of 5. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by maddy4 on September 28, 2005, at 19:55:03
hey guys - and anyone else who cares to chime in - HELP ME!
i feel i must rehash a bit of 'my story' first:
had 3 babies in 4 years - so almost 6 years of continual breastfeeding and pregnancy - now my hormones are whacked and i am suffering from panic and major irritability. have always had a low grade managable anxiety - but as of lately am seeing the neeed to take a real action.am flip flopping between going drug route or vitamin route. tried lexapro for two days - hated it...tried wellbutrin one day - hated it. see a pattern here - firstly -i am impatient. also i hate SEs and feeling out of control. my best managing techniques that dont freak me out are a xanax as needed (usually 1/4 or 1/2 of a .25 - am very sensitive to all drugs) walking and eating healthy + vitamins.
anyway - bought a ton of vitamins this week - alread yahve been supplementing w. calcium (apparently too much at 2,500 mg a day) also take evening primrose, essential fatty acids, flaxseed oil, b complex, iron, kelp, lecithin, garlic oil, etc...i hope i dont OD on vitamins.
wish someone could tell me if my vitamin cocktail was ok.so- this week bought 5htp and SAMe. tried 50mg 5htp one day and felt drugged. tongiht took my first magnesium glysinate and SAMe. i do feel groggy alread yfrom the mag. glys. in minutes i felt this way - maybe im a hypochondriac and feel it from suggestion (reading abt it here) or maybe it is real. dont know abt the SAMe yet. what exactly does the SAMe make you feel? how is the mag gly. supposed to make you feel?
i just want my anxiety to go AWAY - i do not EVER want to have another panic attack or fear another PA. i would love to go the natural route instead of meds and guess i need to make up my mind. am willing to try whatever at this point - just am known for not sticking with the second i feel and unwanted SE.
thanks so much for any input!!
Posted by maddy4 on September 29, 2005, at 10:01:32
In reply to med_empowered, JLx, HELP, posted by maddy4 on September 28, 2005, at 19:55:03
today i took SAMe (200 mg) and feel really groggy this morning already - like stoned feeling - is this a usual SE?
i like that i feel calm but dont like being tired and stoned feeling.
Posted by Mistermindmasta on September 29, 2005, at 11:59:57
In reply to med_empowered, JLx, HELP, posted by maddy4 on September 28, 2005, at 19:55:03
> hey guys - and anyone else who cares to chime in - HELP ME!
>
> i feel i must rehash a bit of 'my story' first:
> had 3 babies in 4 years - so almost 6 years of continual breastfeeding and pregnancy - now my hormones are whacked and i am suffering from panic and major irritability. have always had a low grade managable anxiety - but as of lately am seeing the neeed to take a real action.
>
> am flip flopping between going drug route or vitamin route. tried lexapro for two days - hated it...tried wellbutrin one day - hated it. see a pattern here - firstly -i am impatient. also i hate SEs and feeling out of control. my best managing techniques that dont freak me out are a xanax as needed (usually 1/4 or 1/2 of a .25 - am very sensitive to all drugs) walking and eating healthy + vitamins.
>
> anyway - bought a ton of vitamins this week - alread yahve been supplementing w. calcium (apparently too much at 2,500 mg a day) also take evening primrose, essential fatty acids, flaxseed oil, b complex, iron, kelp, lecithin, garlic oil, etc...i hope i dont OD on vitamins.
> wish someone could tell me if my vitamin cocktail was ok.
>
> so- this week bought 5htp and SAMe. tried 50mg 5htp one day and felt drugged. tongiht took my first magnesium glysinate and SAMe. i do feel groggy alread yfrom the mag. glys. in minutes i felt this way - maybe im a hypochondriac and feel it from suggestion (reading abt it here) or maybe it is real. dont know abt the SAMe yet. what exactly does the SAMe make you feel? how is the mag gly. supposed to make you feel?
>
> i just want my anxiety to go AWAY - i do not EVER want to have another panic attack or fear another PA. i would love to go the natural route instead of meds and guess i need to make up my mind. am willing to try whatever at this point - just am known for not sticking with the second i feel and unwanted SE.
> thanks so much for any input!!Some people feel a lot of anxiety feelings and depression leave when they stop calcium supplements completely. In my opinion, vitamin D and magnesium are equally important as far as bone health goes (is that what you're taking calcium for?), and vit D especially in the winter, since a lot of people get borderline deficient by late winter. One can obtain adequate calcium from leafy greens and green vetetables like southeast asian countries have done for many many years. Taking 2,500 mg of calcium is definitely too much. I'd say 500 mg / day... and even do a trial where you take no calcium for a week to see how you feel.
I don't think you're a hypochondriac, there probably happens to be a coincidence between when your body feels groggy and when you've taken the vitamins... for me this is especially true. For me to truly see how well a supp works, i need to have stability in all other areas - eating, stress, sleep, etc. Then I can see how it works. Often times ive found that i try a supp and feel tired when actually it just so happens that i was tired that day... cuz i find that at a later date, the supplement works. Always do several trials of supplements to see if they work... and in different doses as well (so long as the dose stays within a safe range).
I think that EVERYONE should be doing a combination natural and pharmaceutical route. Anyone who is eating a standard american diet low in folate, B vits, high in trans fats, etc etc etc is really harming themselves and i think the research shows it. To ignore nutrition would be silly. Zinc supplementation helps ritalin work better. Folic acid helps prozac work better. The brain simply works better when nutrition is adequate and ample quantities of quality fats and protein is consumed. Humans have not evolved to eat a diet that has a 40:1 ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fats. The true ratio we've had in our past has been about 4:1, more likely 1:1 or 2:1, from what I understand. We are sabotaging ourselves by eating a normal diet, i think.
I find 5-htp does not acutely resolve any physical feelings (shakyness, etc) feelings of anxiety. In fact, one time I took rhodiola, 5-HTP and a decent quantity of caffeine and came very near to a panic attack, which I've never had. I had a constant feeling of overstimulation... but of course, that was from the rhodiola and caffeine as well. Well anyway, 5htp definitely resolves emotional feelings of anxiety - for example, i become more confident, feel more mentally relaxed, don't feel restless, things like that. Some people say that the effects of 5-HTP come out more as time passes - i dont know about that one. However, as far as your observations go, 5-HTP can definitely make one feel kinda spaced out and slow, since serotonin receptors can inhibit dopamine activity in various spots throughout the brain. But the upside is that it usually induces positive feelings of some variety. I'd give in a few more tries if i were you... try taking it for a few days, spread out thru the day. One 50mg dose isn't likely to be all that effective in my experience, but for some people the effect is noticable. I used to be the kind of person who'd try a supplement and 30 mins later I'd feel off and think it was the supplement, when in fact it wasn't. Just keep that in mind. Always give your supplements a good chance to see what works and what doesn't.
Posted by maddy4 on September 29, 2005, at 15:20:45
In reply to Re: med_empowered, JLx, HELP, posted by Mistermindmasta on September 29, 2005, at 11:59:57
....for all of the good info. i am amazed still that this calcium could be one of the banes of my existance.
the calcium tabs i have are as follows:
2 tabs =
vit d3 - 200IU
calcium (carbonate) - 1000mg
magnesium (mag. oxide, chelate) 500mg
zinc (zinc oxide chelate) 25mg
betaine HCI 100mg
glutamic acid HCI 100mgso should i cut down and not even take the recommended 2? i've been taking 5 a day. if i cut down to 1 of those calcium tabs - should i add the magnesium glycinate i just bought? it is 2 tabs = 400mg of mag glys. or is that a wrong calcium magnesium ratio?? i couldn't take two of the mag glys anyway - since it made me so tired.
do you think i am taking too many supplements w. all of the other stuff i take?
i have decided - for today - to bag the SSRI route and try to cut out calcium - and excercise more to manage anxiety/panic. i do feel calm today - maybe it was the SAMe - i dont feel as stoned as when i first took it. any other thoughts? THANKS a ton!
Posted by JLx on September 30, 2005, at 20:40:42
In reply to med_empowered, JLx, HELP, posted by maddy4 on September 28, 2005, at 19:55:03
Hi Maddy,
Did you see my reply on the other thread?
> anyway - bought a ton of vitamins this week - alread yahve been supplementing w. calcium (apparently too much at 2,500 mg a day) also take evening primrose, essential fatty acids, flaxseed oil, b complex, iron, kelp, lecithin, garlic oil, etc...i hope i dont OD on vitamins.
You already know how I feel about the calcium combo -- stop taking it entirely.
How much of the other things do you take? Tell us exactly, and how long you've been taking them, please.
That zinc in the calcium combo, for instance, is pretty high to be taking for more than a short term which is like a week or two. The upper limit set by the Nat'l Academy of Science for zinc is 40 mg/day. You're taking about 62 mg. http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/cc/zinc.html
I see from the other post that you're also taking glutamic acid HCI in that calcium combo. I don't really know what the "HCI" means in this instance, but glutamic acid in general in supplemental form can be problematical. Glutamic acid is an excitatory amino acid. As part of food it's usually not a problem, as an additive it can be. Like the calcium in excess, it's an excitotoxin. I would recommend that you also stop taking kelp as it is very high in glutamate. http://www.nutrition4health.org/NOHAnews/NNSp00_MSG.htm http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html
Did I already say to STOP TAKING these calcium supplements?? ;) Really, they could be making you crazy.
Since the magnesium glycinate is sedating, I'd suggest that while you stop taking the calcium supplements, you only take 200-400 mg of mag glycinate at night before bed.
I know you said you're impatient, and I understand, but for the best idea of what these things are doing to you, I'd advise changing one thing at a time. At least for one day.
> so- this week bought 5htp and SAMe. tried 50mg 5htp one day and felt drugged. tongiht took my first magnesium glysinate and SAMe. i do feel groggy alread yfrom the mag. glys. in minutes i felt this way - maybe im a hypochondriac and feel it from suggestion (reading abt it here) or maybe it is real. dont know abt the SAMe yet. what exactly does the SAMe make you feel? how is the mag gly. supposed to make you feel?
SAMe gave me more energy and a brighter mood. I didn't notice it right away and it was not that profound.
Mag glycinate is generally calming, it takes away irritability, for me, for instance. But some people find it stimulating.
You may want to experiment with other forms of magnesium, such as magnesium taurate (which would be good to counteract that glutamic acid) or magnesium malate.
> i just want my anxiety to go AWAY - i do not EVER want to have another panic attack or fear another PA. i would love to go the natural route instead of meds and guess i need to make up my mind. am willing to try whatever at this point - just am known for not sticking with the second i feel and unwanted SE.
> thanks so much for any input!!Some vitamins and minerals have quick "results" but not usually. Niacinamide, 500mg, is one that I find to be quick acting - calming - if taken on an empty stomach. Amino acids are quicker acting, but can be tricky. What seems to make some people feel good is awful for others.
To sum up, I recommend that you stop taking the calcium combo, stop taking kelp, take 1-2 magnesium glycinates at bedtime, and see how that feels before you do anything else.
Also, let us know your total vitamin/supplement regimen and also how do you eat? Vegetarian or not, how much or how little junk food, etc.
JL
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