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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 14 to 38 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by Chris O on February 8, 2005, at 20:17:36
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands?, posted by carolineh on February 8, 2005, at 19:18:30
Carol:
It looks like there's a clinical trial underway with this type of EPA ending in 2006. I found that under this link:
(http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/show/NCT00096798).
I'm not certain how, exactly, the ethyl EPA differs from the EPA in Omegabrite or other fish oil brands. Dr. Stoll claims to have the most effective type of EPA in his pills, but, like you, even at 2-3 grams per day, I felt nothing. Good luck and more power to ya, if the stuff you ordered works.Chris
> hi all--i have followed your fish story with interest. because i have tried 2g a day of omega 3s with no success, i decided to order some ethyl-epa (what the research is based on.) i ordered from an outfit called vitamin research products off the internet--has anyone tried this?
>
> (i found two listings for companies with ethyl-epa, and the prices were similar--it was more than drug store stuff but won't break the bank if it works.)
Posted by carolineh on February 8, 2005, at 20:39:18
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » carolineh, posted by Chris O on February 8, 2005, at 20:17:36
c hris--
i saw that link for the study, too. i think the e-epa is more pure, more intense--i read something on the net that explained it, but i didn't follow the math.
i was (am) just curious to see if anyone has tried e-epa,what brand, and with what result. i'll let you know if it works--it should be here friday, although i realize it will take a while to see an effect, if any.
Posted by LOOPS on February 9, 2005, at 8:28:32
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands?, posted by banga on February 8, 2005, at 11:29:14
I take 4-5g evening primrose oil a day, spread out. It helps your body produce different prostaglandins to the fish oil, which apparently are involved in hormonal balance (I don't know the exact ins and outs I'm afraid). It seems to help with anxiety and concentration as well. Most people can produce GLA found in EPO from omega-6 fats from food - some can't (like me probably). It is the GLA that is the important part of the oil I think.
Loops
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands?, posted by banga on February 8, 2005, at 11:29:14
> I am taking a NOW formula that I like--
> NOW Omega 3-6-9
> I like it because it has a variety of oils--all but fish oil that I add separately.
> flax seed oil-1400mg
> Evening Primrose Oil 300mg
> Canola Oil 260mg
> Black Currant Oil 20mg
> Pumpkin seed Oil 20mg
>
> I heard not taking omega 9 with the others can cause an imbalance.
>
> For the person on Evening Primrose Oil, how much do you take? How is it supposed to help with hormone imbalances?Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
Just my perspective.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on February 15, 2005, at 15:15:27
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands?, posted by LOOPS on February 7, 2005, at 17:01:12
Hi Loops,
How is the Source Naturals brand working out? I noticed that Natural Factors brand is enteric coated so less likely to produce stomach problems or nausea. That Italian pharmaceutical grade stuff you mentioned is also enteric coated. Wonder if that has made a difference for you.I also meant to ask you if you take breaks from 5-htp. Everything I've read says that you need to take breaks from it or it stops working. Have you found that to be the case? I really need to get on something that I can take consistantly (or else have something else that I can substitute quickly).
Take care,
Kara
Posted by LOOPS on February 16, 2005, at 8:41:44
In reply to Re: 5-htp » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on February 15, 2005, at 15:15:27
> Hi Loops,
> How is the Source Naturals brand working out? I noticed that Natural Factors brand is enteric coated so less likely to produce stomach problems or nausea. That Italian pharmaceutical grade stuff you mentioned is also enteric coated. Wonder if that has made a difference for you.
>
> I also meant to ask you if you take breaks from 5-htp. Everything I've read says that you need to take breaks from it or it stops working. Have you found that to be the case? I really need to get on something that I can take consistantly (or else have something else that I can substitute quickly).
>
> Take care,
> KaraHi Kara -
yep the Source Naturals stuff seems to be working. I took 200mg before bed last night, and another 100mg at 6am (my usual early morning wakening and not getting back to sleep is a problem right now).
Sounds like a lot, but these pills are less strong than the biosynergy ones. Take 200mg of those and I'd get nightmares/waking hallucinations which isn't very conducive to restful sleep.
Side-effects: well, I'm pretty monged this morning, but I don't care much about that - I don't have to get up for an early start job luckily. Sometimes it's actually nice to feel a bit monged instead of hyper anxious as well.
The point about taking the larger dose is to avoid taking my Somno (zolpidem), or, worse still, I have a stash of Midazolam, which is a pretty heavy-duty benzo which was first prescribed to me a couple of years ago, ironically due to the acute insomnia brought on by starting the Wort. I don't take this very often - I am scared of benzos as I have a very addictive personality, and feel relying on this stuff will only make the problem worse in the long run.
However, compromise is the key with many things, so the 5htp I will continue.
A few things I have learnt with 5htp, as it is tricky to use for me is to vary dose and timing according to how I 'feel' my serotonin is. In other words, sometimes I may take 50mg (I have the Nature's Way brand for this) in the morning if I'm feeling anxious. That seems to be enough for the rest of the day. Then, early in the evening I try to assess how 'sleepy relaxed' I am. If I am feeling very awake and driven, I will take another 50-100mg with some carbohydrate. Then before bed I take a varied dose again, depending on how sleepy I am. I also take some other herb like valerian to help initiate sleep, although I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about this stuff's effects and whether I actually need it all the time.
The point is with the 5htp, the dose is never the same, but it does always have an effect. What doesn't last for me with 5htp, is the antidepressant effect. This seems to wear off with continued use. I would say that for sleep and anxiety, 5htp always works. However, the trick is not to take so much I am plunged into deeper depression or apathy. I am assuming this is not due to tolerance and therefore less of an effect on serotonin, but that levels of dopamine go down.
I couldn't do without the 5htp for sleep. I mean I could, and I have come off it a few times, but I just revert back to difficult sleeping patterns and insomnia, even when depression isn't present (I am very sensitive to light and noise). The only time I sleep well without extra help is when I am truly knackered - but then I feel awful all day being tired all the time - so sleep deprivation is not an answer.
As my doc says, I am just one of those people who doesn't sleep well. Personally I have had this problem on and off since about the age of 10 when I started having panic attacks at night. So it's probably just an anxiety-related disorder.
Hope that helps. I haven't gotten round to trying the Italian brand 5htp - I'm sure it's very good. I have some success with diet issues as well - no large protein meals before bed and I make sure to eat some carbs with the 5htp seems to double its effectiveness.
Loops
Posted by KaraS on February 16, 2005, at 12:24:22
In reply to Re: 5-htp, posted by LOOPS on February 16, 2005, at 8:41:44
> > Hi Loops,
> > How is the Source Naturals brand working out? I noticed that Natural Factors brand is enteric coated so less likely to produce stomach problems or nausea. That Italian pharmaceutical grade stuff you mentioned is also enteric coated. Wonder if that has made a difference for you.
> >
> > I also meant to ask you if you take breaks from 5-htp. Everything I've read says that you need to take breaks from it or it stops working. Have you found that to be the case? I really need to get on something that I can take consistantly (or else have something else that I can substitute quickly).
> >
> > Take care,
> > Kara
>
> Hi Kara -
>
> yep the Source Naturals stuff seems to be working. I took 200mg before bed last night, and another 100mg at 6am (my usual early morning wakening and not getting back to sleep is a problem right now).
>
> Sounds like a lot, but these pills are less strong than the biosynergy ones. Take 200mg of those and I'd get nightmares/waking hallucinations which isn't very conducive to restful sleep.
>
> Side-effects: well, I'm pretty monged this morning, but I don't care much about that - I don't have to get up for an early start job luckily. Sometimes it's actually nice to feel a bit monged instead of hyper anxious as well.
>
> The point about taking the larger dose is to avoid taking my Somno (zolpidem), or, worse still, I have a stash of Midazolam, which is a pretty heavy-duty benzo which was first prescribed to me a couple of years ago, ironically due to the acute insomnia brought on by starting the Wort. I don't take this very often - I am scared of benzos as I have a very addictive personality, and feel relying on this stuff will only make the problem worse in the long run.
>
> However, compromise is the key with many things, so the 5htp I will continue.
>
> A few things I have learnt with 5htp, as it is tricky to use for me is to vary dose and timing according to how I 'feel' my serotonin is. In other words, sometimes I may take 50mg (I have the Nature's Way brand for this) in the morning if I'm feeling anxious. That seems to be enough for the rest of the day. Then, early in the evening I try to assess how 'sleepy relaxed' I am. If I am feeling very awake and driven, I will take another 50-100mg with some carbohydrate. Then before bed I take a varied dose again, depending on how sleepy I am. I also take some other herb like valerian to help initiate sleep, although I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about this stuff's effects and whether I actually need it all the time.
>
> The point is with the 5htp, the dose is never the same, but it does always have an effect. What doesn't last for me with 5htp, is the antidepressant effect. This seems to wear off with continued use. I would say that for sleep and anxiety, 5htp always works. However, the trick is not to take so much I am plunged into deeper depression or apathy. I am assuming this is not due to tolerance and therefore less of an effect on serotonin, but that levels of dopamine go down.
>
> I couldn't do without the 5htp for sleep. I mean I could, and I have come off it a few times, but I just revert back to difficult sleeping patterns and insomnia, even when depression isn't present (I am very sensitive to light and noise). The only time I sleep well without extra help is when I am truly knackered - but then I feel awful all day being tired all the time - so sleep deprivation is not an answer.
>
> As my doc says, I am just one of those people who doesn't sleep well. Personally I have had this problem on and off since about the age of 10 when I started having panic attacks at night. So it's probably just an anxiety-related disorder.
>
> Hope that helps. I haven't gotten round to trying the Italian brand 5htp - I'm sure it's very good. I have some success with diet issues as well - no large protein meals before bed and I make sure to eat some carbs with the 5htp seems to double its effectiveness.
>
> Loops
Thanks for all of the info. Just one more question: if the 5-htp loses its antidepressant effect for you then do you take breaks from it? It sounds like you can't without losing sleep. Therefore, I would assume that you don't take breaks and that the 5-htp is no longer an antidepressant for you (only helps you with sleep and anxiety at this point).K
Posted by LOOPS on February 16, 2005, at 16:58:38
In reply to Re: 5-htp » LOOPS, posted by KaraS on February 16, 2005, at 12:24:22
Hi -
yeah that's right. I don't take it for depression - although taking the fish oil seems to make the 5htp work even better (I had the same experience with fish oil + sjw - made it work better). I take the fish oil for depression.
No I haven't taken a break recently from the 5htp. I'm still finding it useful, but if it stops working I will take a short break. Today I haven't taken any 5htp as my dose was big last night and early morning and didn't want any more. Tonight I will take some, but I am quite tired already so hopefully I won't need very much (mind you that can be misleading sometimes).
Good luck with it.
Loops
Posted by KaraS on February 16, 2005, at 17:09:21
In reply to Re: 5-htp, posted by LOOPS on February 16, 2005, at 16:58:38
Posted by tealady on February 18, 2005, at 21:17:03
In reply to fsih oil - other brands?, posted by LOOPS on February 5, 2005, at 7:35:44
I finally found some non smelly and non tasting fish oil caps in Oz!!(7th brand I've tried!) My Dad bought this no reflux brand. it's Nature's Own Omega3, odourless fish oil, 1000mg with "no fishy reflux" http://www.naturalcity.com.au/product.aspx?id=3276
Info for any Aussie's still looking for a tasteless fish oil. I have no idea what they do to the fish oil to prevent any smell or taste though.The girl in the shop told me the only difference was the capsules are harder so it is designed to dissolve in intestine and not stomach, but when I break open the capsules there is NO smell or taste...
The cod liver oil(melrose bottle) still stunk and tastes fishy. We've got different brands over here.
Posted by sabre on February 18, 2005, at 22:24:47
In reply to Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done, posted by tealady on February 18, 2005, at 21:17:03
Hi Tealady
That's the brand I use in the largish 200 capsules per bottle. I've never had any problems with the smell or taste of them.Do you notice any difference when you are taking them or not? I stopped taking them a couple of weeks ago and I can't tell the difference.
What do you think?
sabre
Posted by tealady on February 19, 2005, at 19:36:12
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done, posted by sabre on February 18, 2005, at 22:24:47
Fish oil , just one capsule a day usually gives me acne..severe enough for doc to comment on when I visit him for other things, as well as flatulence!
Also I suspect I get that increase in anxiety that Loops commented on. I tried it for many months then gave up. I finally tolerated one capsule but had some effects when I tried increasing to 2 caps a day.
Recently I've tried flaxseed ground on my brekkie oats and flaxseed oil and that feels much better.
I've always loved EPO (just one a day), and just bought some more again.
I'm trying now fish oil + EPo + flaxseed...
I think that helps but I'm adding in B5 to see if I can tolerate better. B5 helps one's body break down the oils and use them supposedly.(posted on b4)
Still experimenting.
Personally I won't go above 2 caps a day of fish oil probably with one cap a day of EPO and a tablespoon of linseed meal(flaxseed). I'm just using up some flaxseed oil on my skin as well.Loops seems to be saying she has found a similar combo best for her as well.
I suspect this is more of a 'female" combo, with males doing better on plain fish oil or a fish oil /cod iver oil combo in colder climates/winter?
I do know flaxseed is not great for males(prostrate cancer), and EPO does help with estrogen I think..not sure on that one..poor memory.I got those odourless fish oil caps for Dad. I've started him on cod liver oil, then added in 2 caps of fish oil a day and 1 cap of EPO for GLA. Seems to maybe be helping.
He noticed a softening of motions on the cod liver oil, which has remained on the fish oil caps.
I notice this softening as well... both not constipated before though.
Other than that, I think the flaxseed seems to help with eye moisture, and perhaps moisture levels of whole body(but that could be something else I'm taking too like estrogen). But I suspect that fish oil may take away from the other omega 3 oils in our body creating a slight imbalance that is helped by a little flaxseed. I think this idea is backed by some research I've read on omega balances when adding in fish oil it seems to "replace" the other long chain fatty acids first from memory. ..Lar probably knows this stuff. Anyway I figure that is why I need the lot for a better balance.
So just trying this at present with the B5 to help break down and utilize all this extra fatty acids.
I really hated fish oil by itself though, increased anxiety and "edginess" I think as well as just not feeling right and other physical symptoms mentioned above.
iT took a long time after stopping to start feeling as before again.(months, but I guess that makes sense.
IMO 3 caps of fish oil is enough for most(unless you are a big build, as intake should be proportional to weight). I've spoken to researchers(average size males) in omega3 etc. and that's what they take, and I figure they probably know as much as anyone .
Jan
Posted by sabre on February 21, 2005, at 0:15:44
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done » sabre, posted by tealady on February 19, 2005, at 19:36:12
Thankyou Jan.
I can't say I have noticed anything from taking the fish oil....on it or off it. I think I might try the flaxseed oil instead of the fish oil after reading your post.
I wish there was an easier way of determining what will work and at what dosage.
sabre
Posted by banga on February 22, 2005, at 8:30:42
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
Hi Larry,
Sorry I haven't visited this board in a while. I studied supplements feverishly a year ago and got researched out. It is especially depressing because I am faced with the fact that I can research all I want, but a month later I will have forgotten 60% of what I read.So: The thing is when I am depressed I eat very little, so I really am missing just about everything in terms of nutrition.
But I agree, I have heard conflicting research. I have too read that if anything we have too much omega 6 proportionally. Then you hav Joan Larsen (was the book Depression free naturally?) saying omega 6 deficiency has been linked to depression and alcoholism. Evidence in both directions.
I admittedly have not studied up on omega 9 as much.
Flax oil----not always can ALA be converted to DHA and EPA so you need fish oil as a source of omega 3, however it has other benefits.But thus I take still extra fish oil for its benefits--so I do take more omega 3 than this formula.I am sure we can match oil formulas with ease and less expensive, that is definitely true and they rip us off. I however do not want to drink oil daily, so I will spend the money and take the sofgels thank you!
Posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 3:33:48
In reply to Re: Fish oil-Aussie brands, how is no smell/taste done, posted by sabre on February 21, 2005, at 0:15:44
reading a bit more on this stuff...I think adding in some omega9's as well as the omega3's is important in the mix too.
Olive oil contains omega9's (oleic acid)..there are other types too, but perhaps this is one of the best ones...google on omega9
I've , well for a no of years anyway used olive oil in cooking..and eaten almonds etc.
Flax apparently has a little omega9 too.
Taking both omega9 + omega3's really helps reduce the omega6's and bring them into balance...a lttle saturated fat added in helps too(like I use unrefined coconut oil on my skin sometimes as a moisturizer and use butter and avocados in place of margarine).http://fst.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/9/5/329
I've always bought "sardines in olive oil" in tins, I'm not going to fry them though...maybe they are already cooked this way?Just trying to balance the ratios..and I guess this means reducing omega 6's and eliminating trans fats wherever possible, kinda what I've been doing for years anyway. Gee I should be healthy!
http://www.mercola.com/2003/jul/19/trans_fat.htm
Jan
Posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 4:43:02
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
> > I am taking a NOW formula that I like--
> > NOW Omega 3-6-9
> > I like it because it has a variety of oils--all but fish oil that I add separately.
> > flax seed oil-1400mg
> > Evening Primrose Oil 300mg
> > Canola Oil 260mg
> > Black Currant Oil 20mg
> > Pumpkin seed Oil 20mg
> >
> > I heard not taking omega 9 with the others can cause an imbalance.
> >
> > For the person on Evening Primrose Oil, how much do you take? How is it supposed to help with hormone imbalances?
>
> Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
>
> With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
>
> I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
>
> Just my perspective.
>
> Lar
>
Hi Lar(or anyone else with an interest),
I used to have somewhere a table of oils (n3,n6 and maybe n9's) in various foods, but I can't find it. Just wondering if you have one somewhere you can easily lay your hands on..or a ref.
Also re n9's ..what is a typical percentage in human membranes..or diet? I can't seem to find that out for humans either...and how has it changed in recent (last 100 ys) consumption. I've heard a lot about omega6/omega3 ratios but nothing on omega9's.Jan
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:33:19
In reply to Balance of oils/fats n3,n6,n9 , saturated, trans » sabre, posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 3:33:48
> reading a bit more on this stuff...I think adding in some omega9's as well as the omega3's is important in the mix too.
> Olive oil contains omega9's (oleic acid)..there are other types too, but perhaps this is one of the best ones...google on omega9Human beings can synthesize oleic acid from carbohydrate, or from the saturated fat stearic acid (via delta-9 desaturase). Cooking with olive oil is good for you, if you must use oil, but you don't need to purposely take some as a supplement, IMHO.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 2, 2005, at 16:36:59
In reply to oil mixtures » Larry Hoover, posted by tealady on February 25, 2005, at 4:43:02
> Hi Lar(or anyone else with an interest),
> I used to have somewhere a table of oils (n3,n6 and maybe n9's) in various foods, but I can't find it. Just wondering if you have one somewhere you can easily lay your hands on..or a ref.I hope this isn't too detailed:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031119104251/http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~ah/food/You can cross-reference the names with the structures here:
http://hec.osu.edu/people/shertzler/Lipid%20metabolism%20part%201.pdf> Also re n9's ..what is a typical percentage in human membranes..or diet? I can't seem to find that out for humans either...and how has it changed in recent (last 100 ys) consumption. I've heard a lot about omega6/omega3 ratios but nothing on omega9's.
>
> JanOmega-9 is not generally found in membranes. It's stored in adipose tissue for energy production.
Lar
Posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
In reply to Re: fsih oil - other brands? » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on February 14, 2005, at 17:09:34
>
> Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
>
> With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
>
> I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
>
> Just my perspective.
>
> Lar
>Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 11:12:38
In reply to Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
> Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
>
> I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
>
> I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.
SO GLA is only one of several types of omega-6? That might explain a contradition in my mind...I had read a deficiency of GLA can lead to derpession, yet our diets are supposedly replete with omega 6...
So do we help by adding GLA, or do we upset the balance still further? What is the solution---add both GLA, and even more omega 3s (fish oil, I did know flax oil is different...)
And while on this subject, I know some theorize that people may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....or was it the other way around? Do you know about this?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:15:20
In reply to Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by itsme2003 on March 23, 2005, at 2:17:51
> >
> > Omega-9 fatty acids are not deficient in most people's diets, and there is no imbalance associated with their lack.
> >
> > With the advent of modern food processing over the last century, and the novel availability and amount of vegetable oils in our diets (from an evolutionary perspective), I cannot conceive that anyone is deficient in omega-6 or omega-9 fatty acids. We currently get about 60 times as much as our ancestors had in their diets. Simultaneous to that increase, we've lost half our omega-3 intake.
> >
> > I was able to exactly match a commercial (Udo's) 3-6-9 oil blend by simply proportioning canola, olive and flax oils appropriately. Hocus-pocus oil, IMHO.
> >
> > Just my perspective.
> >
> > Lar
> >
>
> Keep in mind that there are two important items about a particular fatty acid. The position of the first double bond (the omega) and the chain length. The body can shorten the chains fairly easily, but has a lot of difficulty making the chain longer. Thus you can't really take flax oil (a shorter chain omega-3) and expect to get the benefits that you would get from fish oil (a longer chain omega-3).
>
> I have read that the standard American diet is deficient in Gamma Linolenic Aid (GLA) which is an omega-6 fatty acid. Thus a person could be in a position of ingesting way too much omega-6 fatty acid, yet not get enough of one particular omega-6 fatty acid.
>
> I agree that the average person has no deficiency of omega-9 fatty acids. These come along naturally in all of the named ingredients in this oil. Besides from a marketing perspective, omega 3-6-9 oil probably sounds better than omega 3-6 oil.All absolutely correct. There is no substitute for ingestion of preformed EPA and DHA. Moreover, ingesting the combination of omega-3 fats (which bind to desaturase enzymes with higher affinity than do omega-6) with GLA shunts the GLA into an alternative pathway (not towards arichidonic acid) that produces anti-inflammatory prostaglandins.
The commercial 3-6-9 blends are nothing more than snake oil products, IMHO. Udo is a quack.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 12:14:16
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » itsme2003, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 11:15:20
How quickly could one expect benefit for mood stabilization with EFAs (fish oil)?
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:42:16
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal, posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 11:12:38
> SO GLA is only one of several types of omega-6? That might explain a contradition in my mind...I had read a deficiency of GLA can lead to derpession, yet our diets are supposedly replete with omega 6...
> So do we help by adding GLA, or do we upset the balance still further? What is the solution---add both GLA, and even more omega 3s (fish oil, I did know flax oil is different...)
> And while on this subject, I know some theorize that people may have difficulty converting EPA to DHA....or was it the other way around? Do you know about this?Gamma-linolenic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid with 3 double bonds, compared to linoleic acid, the main source of omega-6, which has only two double bonds.
Gamma-linolenic acid can go on to be converted into dihomgammalinolenic acid, which then becomes arichidonic acid. However, GLA can be shunted into a different pathway to become anti-inflammatory prostaglandins. That shunting occurs when there are sufficient other molecules competing for the enzymes that go to make dihomogammalinolenic acid.....those competitors are omega-3 fatty acids. So, high intake of omega-3 with GLA goes to anti-inflammatory effects.
Lar
P.S. Don't you love the name dihomogammalinolenic acid? Only a geek could come up with that one.
Posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:44:43
In reply to Re: HOw fast do EFA work?, posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 12:14:16
> How quickly could one expect benefit for mood stabilization with EFAs (fish oil)?
Some people notice immediate effects. I've seen reports of activation and insomnia, occurring immediately.
Generally, the calming and resilient effects tend to come on gradually, over weeks. The fatty acids become incomporated into cell membranes over time, as normal turnover occurs. The half-life of a membrane phospholipid (where the fish fatty acids end up) is measured in weeks, so it takes time for the fish oils to get where they need to go. Some estimates are eight months for the effect to become complete.
Lar
Posted by banga on March 26, 2005, at 17:45:59
In reply to Re: Not all Omega-3s are created equal » banga, posted by Larry Hoover on March 26, 2005, at 12:42:16
dihomogammalinolenic acid
Only Germans could compete in terms of word length I think!
Thank you for your response!
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