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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2004, at 23:36:38
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate, posted by mordewis on March 18, 2004, at 5:08:40
> Lithium orotate is a fairly new formulation, which takes a relatively small amount of lithium and, according to the formulary, delivers all of it past the blood-brain barrier rather than flushing it to the rest of your body the way lithium carbonate does. It appears to be safe and non-toxic; I've used it for over 5 months myself. A couple sites make the statement that pregnant women or lactating mothers should not take it, but I wonder why if all the lithium is being used in the brain. There are no controlled studies I am aware of.
>
> You can find yourself paying as little as $12.20 for 200 pills and as much as $49.95 for 90. I would say don't pay the extra for the Serenity brand-name, it's all the same stuff.
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 26, 2004, at 3:30:33
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate « mordewis, posted by Dr. Bob on March 18, 2004, at 23:36:38
Link to lots of lithium orotate info
Posted by Rob25 on April 24, 2004, at 10:13:19
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » bruce_w6, posted by Rob25 on April 24, 2004, at 10:07:15
http://mysite.verizon.net/res003jh/lithium-orotate/
I hope this link works. I found more info about lithium orotate at that site than anywhere else. Hope it helps.
Rob
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Re: Link to lots of lithium orotate info
Posted by Michael Motter on April 25, 2004, at 20:06:49
In reply to Link to lots of lithium orotate info, posted by Rob25 on April 24, 2004, at 10:13:19
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res003jh/lithium-orotate/
>
> I hope this link works. I found more info about lithium orotate at that site than anywhere else. Hope it helps.
>
> RobThis website is a little misleading. Lithium Orotate is a drug and it is a mineral. The orotate is just a carrier like carbonate or citrate. All lithium, no matter what carrier it is placed on, is a natural mineral salt. The study that they are citing was done by Hans Nieper. He is an interesting individual. His drugs were banned by the FDA until they were able to bring them into this country under the 1994 nutritional substance policy I would reccomend that you find this article and read it and consult a physician before taking lithium orotate. It can usually be found by typing his nmae and Lithium orotate on google.
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Re: Link to lots of lithium orotate info » Michael Motter
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 0:42:29
In reply to Re: Link to lots of lithium orotate info, posted by Michael Motter on April 25, 2004, at 20:06:49
Hi, Michael --
Actually, I've previously read YOUR article about Hans Nieper and lithium orotate. : ) And I had formerly read info about Dr. Nieper's products not being let into the US. One of the articles had the exact paperwork describing the reason, which was because the labels were in German.
And despite what the reasons may or may not have been, I've had a long and ugly history with this illness. I've been all over the place and never had those nice periods of stability that other bipolars seem to get. I've been taking lithium orotate with the blessing of my pdoc, mainly because nothing else has worked well for me. Some things probably would have except I'm apparently ultra-sensitive to side effects.
I've now been completely stable for the many months now for the first time in my life. The only time during this period I wasn't doing well is when I went off the lithium orotate for two weeks because I couldn't believe something so cheap and easy to take could be doing all this--maybe I had just hit one of those great stable periods of the cosmic bipolar cycle. But two weeks off was enough for me--and everyone around me--to realize what was making the difference.
Yeah, I know that as far as some people are concerned, my case is just anectodal. S'ok with me. I'm just glad this stuff works for me. And it has worked for lots of people I've told about it, too. So people can try to dredge up anything negative they can find about lithium orotate. All I know is that the stuff works for me and lots of other people too.
Rob
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Also, I believe the 'kidney' info is flawed » Michael Motter
Posted by Rob25 on April 26, 2004, at 1:25:17
In reply to Re: Link to lots of lithium orotate info, posted by Michael Motter on April 25, 2004, at 20:06:49
My understanding of the test that was done regarding the kidney fuction comparison between lithium orotate and lithium carbonate is this: (btw, I have studied both the abstract and the full text of the article of the research done in 1979 by Smith and Schou.)
They injected rats with both lithium carbonate and lithium orotate (and a neutral injection of sodium chloride) and then measured kidney functioning, urine flow, etc. The results were that the lithium orotate seemed to cause lower kidney functioning.
However, the HUGE and apparently completely overlooked point here is this--they injected the rats with the SAME amounts of lithum orotate and lithium carbonate. Anyone see a problem here?? The point is, people DON'T TAKE the same enormous amounts of lithium orotate as they have to take with lithium carbonate and lithium citrate!! An effective dose is typically like 15 mg of elemental lithium from lithium orotate compared to 126 mg of elemental lithium from lithium carbonate, which is more than 800% more lithium!
So when I see people quote that study, I wonder why nobody's comparing apples to apples. Instead the study compares grapes to watermelons and the results end up skewed and completely indifferent to the way lithium orotate is administered in actual use.
Rob
Posted by Rachelp on August 31, 2004, at 7:08:09
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate » bruce_w6, posted by Sooshi on March 2, 2004, at 10:38:18
I am the mother of a 5 year old who is bipolar. My son does very well with the situation considering the circumstances of it. He was able to at 4 years old identify and communicate to me what was going on in his mind when he has swings. He very often will look at me in the middle of a BP swing and tell me that he is aware that he is experiencing a mood he can't control and he doesn't like it and it makes him sad. He tries very hard to control the swings himself. As you all know, that isn't possible regardless of how much he wants to be able to control it himself. His father had a very rough childhood because of the bp. At that time, they didn't understand what was wrong and it was easier for them to pass it off as a behavioral problem than to deal with it. I don't want my son to have to suffer through this. However, he is only 5 and I am reluctant to start the meds already. He is not at a point where meds would be absolutely neccessary. The bp isn't "controlling" his life. But, I feel like his quality of life would be better if he had some type of something to help regulate these swings and take some of the pressure off of him where he doesn't feel like it is his responsibility to "control" himself. He seems to understand well that he can't help what is happening, but I don't want him to get to a point where he feels the burden is on him to "fix" it when he can't and that will lead to even more depressing and helpless emotions for him to contend with. Do any of you have experience with children this age with bp? Or, could you share any insights from your childhoods if you were experiencing the bp at that stage? I just want to be able to help my son the best that I can and make this disorder bearable for him. If it does require the meds, that is something I will do. Just like most people in this situation I think, I am reluctant of the lithium and have heard so many horror stories of kids being put on anti deprssants that weren't suited for them. Will early maintenance of bp help in terms of long term care?
Posted by sac on August 31, 2004, at 7:08:09
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate, posted by Rachelp on August 30, 2004, at 11:52:22
Hi, I wanted to respond to your post because I suffer from Bipolar II and have a son who is 6 years old (not bipolar) but I sympathize with how much you want to help your son. First, I would say that earlier treatment/intervention is considered best in the long term. Does your son have a doctor presently? I can understand your concern regarding medications. If you are looking for alternative solutions first, try posting on the alternative board. As for me, I have used lithium orotate and it was helpful.
> I am the mother of a 5 year old who is bipolar. My son does very well with the situation considering the circumstances of it. He was able to at 4 years old identify and communicate to me what was going on in his mind when he has swings. He very often will look at me in the middle of a BP swing and tell me that he is aware that he is experiencing a mood he can't control and he doesn't like it and it makes him sad. He tries very hard to control the swings himself. As you all know, that isn't possible regardless of how much he wants to be able to control it himself. His father had a very rough childhood because of the bp. At that time, they didn't understand what was wrong and it was easier for them to pass it off as a behavioral problem than to deal with it. I don't want my son to have to suffer through this. However, he is only 5 and I am reluctant to start the meds already. He is not at a point where meds would be absolutely neccessary. The bp isn't "controlling" his life. But, I feel like his quality of life would be better if he had some type of something to help regulate these swings and take some of the pressure off of him where he doesn't feel like it is his responsibility to "control" himself. He seems to understand well that he can't help what is happening, but I don't want him to get to a point where he feels the burden is on him to "fix" it when he can't and that will lead to even more depressing and helpless emotions for him to contend with. Do any of you have experience with children this age with bp? Or, could you share any insights from your childhoods if you were experiencing the bp at that stage? I just want to be able to help my son the best that I can and make this disorder bearable for him. If it does require the meds, that is something I will do. Just like most people in this situation I think, I am reluctant of the lithium and have heard so many horror stories of kids being put on anti deprssants that weren't suited for them. Will early maintenance of bp help in terms of long term care?
Posted by joebob on September 2, 2004, at 22:55:44
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate, posted by Rachelp on August 30, 2004, at 11:52:22
for bipolar......i prefer the higher ratio ones, that is epa to dha of 3 to 1 or greater but i am not sure he agrees with me
try searching 'epa and bipolar' on googleread this:
http://www.bipolarchild.com/newsletters/0501print.htmland be sure to go to the homepage for bipolar child:
http://www.bipolarchild.com/
Posted by Larry Hoover on September 5, 2004, at 9:35:50
In reply to Re: Lithium Orotate, posted by Rachelp on August 30, 2004, at 11:52:22
> Will early maintenance of bp help in terms of long term care?
Absolutely, but there are many forms of maintenance to consider. As joebob suggested, one of the most important angles to consider is nutritional support. During these early years of neurodevelopment, supplementing his growing brain with the raw materials needed to form healthy brain connections may reduce the likelihood that he will ever need medication.
Absolutely essential is a supply of long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, as found in fish oil. There may be mineral problems, too, so there should be some assurance that he gets closer to the upper safe limits of those minerals. The problem is, of course, adjusting the dose to his body weight. After looking at the ingredients of adult "one-a-day" type multivitamins, I think that would be acceptable to give to your child. Try those interventions, and see where you stand. His ability to describe his struggle should be encouraged, and will guide any further nutritional interventions, after starting these two. Fish oil might be hard on his stomach, so make sure it is given with food. 3-5 grams per day would be a good target for his age.
Lar
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