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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Simus on August 12, 2004, at 2:09:50
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 11, 2004, at 0:31:41
> > Oh, another side effect of Lexapro... Hormones all over the map... I thought it was making me menopausal at 43. My periods are just now straightening out, and I have been off of it for 7 months.
>
> That's horrible. I've never heard of anyone having such a terrible time on any antidepressant.The hormonal upset seems to be fairly common on Lexapro. Kinda strange, huh?
> Do you think your adrenal problems surfaced because of the drug or because your doctor took you off of it immediately without slowly tapering you?
I had been so sick from the drug changes for about 4 months that I spent a lot of time sleeping or at least in bed. So I went from vegetable to "ZING" overnight on the Wellbutrin, and I just think my body wasn't ready for it.
> > How are you doing after stopping the Perika?
>
> I'm feeling better but still a bit headachey and out of it. I also tried to decrease on the Effexor the other night which ended up giving me some surprising symptoms.I was on Effexor but went straight to Lexapro so I didn't have the full withdrawal symptoms. I
understand that people get... what do they call them... like electrical shocks in the brain... Sorry I can't remember the term.> Combine these two things with the fact that I had to get up this morning around the time that I usually go to bed and you have one very un-sharp employee (to say the least). I felt so slow and dumb today. It's so frustrating when you try to make the machinery do something it's not willing or able to do. As soon as I get this depression under control, I'm going to get my energy and my mind back. (Remind me to tell you about two good books on this subject and an interesting web site to check out.)
It is so hard to do the drug adjustment thing while working...
> > Can't lose hope, or all will be lost...
>
> Which really isn't all that much to lose in my case. Oh, I know, it's the depression talking.Yes, it is the depression talking. A brighter day will come, and you will be so grateful that you hung on during the dark times.
Take care,
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 13, 2004, at 16:21:13
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 12, 2004, at 2:09:50
> The hormonal upset seems to be fairly common on Lexapro. Kinda strange, huh?
Yes, very strange. I had never heard of that before. Did your doctor warn you about it? They should take that stuff off of the market if you ask me (but who's asking me).
> > Do you think your adrenal problems surfaced because of the drug or because your doctor took you off of it immediately without slowly tapering you?
> I had been so sick from the drug changes for about 4 months that I spent a lot of time sleeping or at least in bed. So I went from vegetable to "ZING" overnight on the Wellbutrin, and I just think my body wasn't ready for it.I can imagine your body wouldn't be ready for that - especially since your adrenal hormones were probably already screwed up from the Lexapro.
> >
> I was on Effexor but went straight to Lexapro so I didn't have the full withdrawal symptoms. I
> understand that people get... what do they call them... like electrical shocks in the brain... Sorry I can't remember the term.I believe the highly "technical" term you are looking for is "brain zaps". Whoever coined that did a good job.
The main book that I wanted to mention to you that's look really good for reclaiming your mental abilities is "Brain Longevity" by Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD. Hope I've spelled it correctly. Don't be put off by his look. He converted to the Sikh religion and grew his hair and beard out and wears a turban etc. He is a well respected doctor in the holistic field though. I'm not sure it's in print anymore but you can get used copies or find it in some libraries. It's very comprehensive in terms of diet, meditation, exercises, supplements (lots of those). It does sound like you'd need to devote your entire life to it but I bet that if anything could bring our minds back, it's the advice in this book.
>
> It is so hard to do the drug adjustment thing while working...It sure is. You can't come to work and say "I'm sorry I'm not terribly productive today because I'm having brain zaps and other withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing my current antidepressant medication. If I could just hang on long enough to get through this, and not jump out the window before then, I'm certain I'll eventually become a model employee. Of course I'd have to find something else that works for me first and solves all of my mental and emotional problems but I'm sure that when that day comes, you'll be glad I'm on your staff."
> > > Can't lose hope, or all will be lost...
> Take care,
>
> Simus
Hopefully I didn't offend you with my last round of Larry on vacation jokes. You didn't carry the conversation any further so I wanted to make sure. (It's not like we haven't beaten that thing to death already though...) BTW, I LOVED your James Bond comparison. Too funny esp. the line about you thinking he was just being temperamental when he threw his drink at you. Anyway, I think he's back today so we'll have to find some other topic of amusement.Have a good weekend.
-K
Posted by Simus on August 13, 2004, at 16:46:46
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 13, 2004, at 16:21:13
> > The hormonal upset seems to be fairly common on Lexapro. Kinda strange, huh?
>
> Yes, very strange. I had never heard of that before. Did your doctor warn you about it? They should take that stuff off of the market if you ask me (but who's asking me).No, no warning from the Doc. Just comments from lots of women taking it on this site (who have never experienced this reaction from other SSRIs).
> > I was on Effexor but went straight to Lexapro so I didn't have the full withdrawal symptoms. I
> > understand that people get... what do they call them... like electrical shocks in the brain... Sorry I can't remember the term.
>
> I believe the highly "technical" term you are looking for is "brain zaps". Whoever coined that did a good job.Something that everyone who is profitting financially from this drug should experience at least once...
> The main book that I wanted to mention to you that's look really good for reclaiming your mental abilities is "Brain Longevity" by Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD. Hope I've spelled it correctly. Don't be put off by his look. He converted to the Sikh religion and grew his hair and beard out and wears a turban etc. He is a well respected doctor in the holistic field though. I'm not sure it's in print anymore but you can get used copies or find it in some libraries. It's very comprehensive in terms of diet, meditation, exercises, supplements (lots of those). It does sound like you'd need to devote your entire life to it but I bet that if anything could bring our minds back, it's the advice in this book.
I am about to go see a holistic doctor. I haven't made the appointment yet though. I will tell you how it goes...
> > It is so hard to do the drug adjustment thing while working...
>
> It sure is. You can't come to work and say "I'm sorry I'm not terribly productive today because I'm having brain zaps and other withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing my current antidepressant medication. If I could just hang on long enough to get through this, and not jump out the window before then, I'm certain I'll eventually become a model employee. Of course I'd have to find something else that works for me first and solves all of my mental and emotional problems but I'm sure that when that day comes, you'll be glad I'm on your staff."LOL Don't you just wish we could be that honest just once?
> Hopefully I didn't offend you with my last round of Larry on vacation jokes. You didn't carry the conversation any further so I wanted to make sure. (It's not like we haven't beaten that thing to death already though...) BTW, I LOVED your James Bond comparison. Too funny esp. the line about you thinking he was just being temperamental when he threw his drink at you. Anyway, I think he's back today so we'll have to find some other topic of amusement.No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
Simus
Posted by KaraS on August 13, 2004, at 18:26:52
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 13, 2004, at 16:46:46
> > > The hormonal upset seems to be fairly common on Lexapro. Kinda strange, huh?
> >
> > Yes, very strange. I had never heard of that before. Did your doctor warn you about it? They should take that stuff off of the market if you ask me (but who's asking me).
>
> No, no warning from the Doc. Just comments from lots of women taking it on this site (who have never experienced this reaction from other SSRIs).
What would we all do without a site like this?
> > > I was on Effexor but went straight to Lexapro so I didn't have the full withdrawal symptoms. I
> > > understand that people get... what do they call them... like electrical shocks in the brain... Sorry I can't remember the term.
> >
> > I believe the highly "technical" term you are looking for is "brain zaps". Whoever coined that did a good job.
>
> Something that everyone who is profitting financially from this drug should experience at least once...
I'd like to give them some zaps in at least one other place as well.
> > The main book that I wanted to mention to you that's look really good for reclaiming your mental abilities is "Brain Longevity" by Dharma Singh Khalsa, MD. Hope I've spelled it correctly. Don't be put off by his look. He converted to the Sikh religion and grew his hair and beard out and wears a turban etc. He is a well respected doctor in the holistic field though. I'm not sure it's in print anymore but you can get used copies or find it in some libraries. It's very comprehensive in terms of diet, meditation, exercises, supplements (lots of those). It does sound like you'd need to devote your entire life to it but I bet that if anything could bring our minds back, it's the advice in this book.
>
> I am about to go see a holistic doctor. I haven't made the appointment yet though. I will tell you how it goes...
Thanks. I'd be very interested in how it goes. How did you find him or her?
> > > It is so hard to do the drug adjustment thing while working...
> >
> > It sure is. You can't come to work and say "I'm sorry I'm not terribly productive today because I'm having brain zaps and other withdrawal symptoms from discontinuing my current antidepressant medication. If I could just hang on long enough to get through this, and not jump out the window before then, I'm certain I'll eventually become a model employee. Of course I'd have to find something else that works for me first and solves all of my mental and emotional problems but I'm sure that when that day comes, you'll be glad I'm on your staff."
>
> LOL Don't you just wish we could be that honest just once?
>YES!!!
> > Hopefully I didn't offend you with my last round of Larry on vacation jokes. You didn't carry the conversation any further so I wanted to make sure. (It's not like we haven't beaten that thing to death already though...) BTW, I LOVED your James Bond comparison. Too funny esp. the line about you thinking he was just being temperamental when he threw his drink at you. Anyway, I think he's back today so we'll have to find some other topic of amusement.
>
> No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
>
> Simus
It's a little late for embarrassment now, don't you think?-K
Posted by Simus on August 13, 2004, at 22:24:10
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying, posted by KaraS on August 13, 2004, at 18:26:52
> What would we all do without a site like this?
I don't know...
> > I am about to go see a holistic doctor. I haven't made the appointment yet though. I will tell you how it goes...
>
> Thanks. I'd be very interested in how it goes. How did you find him or her?My sister just took her daughter there and was very pleased with the first appointment. She is 100 miles from me, but if she can help me, it would certainly be worth the drive.
> > Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
> It's a little late for embarrassment now, don't you think?
Gee, you don't suppose we scared him away do you???
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 13, 2004, at 22:28:40
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying, posted by KaraS on August 13, 2004, at 18:26:52
> > > Hopefully I didn't offend you with my last round of Larry on vacation jokes. You didn't carry the conversation any further so I wanted to make sure. (It's not like we haven't beaten that thing to death already though...) BTW, I LOVED your James Bond comparison. Too funny esp. the line about you thinking he was just being temperamental when he threw his drink at you. Anyway, I think he's back today so we'll have to find some other topic of amusement.
> >
> > No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
> >
> > Simus
>
>
> It's a little late for embarrassment now, don't you think?
>
> -KOh, please don't be embarassed....I've only read a few, and they were quite funny and imaginative.
I suppose the topics were sufficiently alternative that they also were permitted to drift slightly off on Alpine tangents.... I wish I had one of those Hoover, Larry Hoover moments....
Talk more on the morrow.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:15:08
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 3, 2004, at 10:14:59
> I am currently on Wellbutrin and Xanax. The Wellbutrin has helped the depression and I feel (relatively) quite well with the exception of insomnia, but I am wondering if the Wellbutrin has contributed to the overtaxing of my adrenal system. Not sure... But if it works for the depression/anxiety, I don't dare touch it!
One simple test of adrenal stress is to try some licorice. Do not use DGL, though. That is De-Glycyrrhizinated Licorice. Glycyrrhizin is the compound that blocks the enzyme that activates cortisol. I'll snip from an unreferenced source...."Glycyrrhetinic acid, a metabolite of glycyrrhizin, inhibits the renal conversion of cortisol to cortisone by inhibiting the enzyme 11 beta-hydroxysteroiddehydrogenase in the kidney." Cortisol is "potential cortisone", in the sense that circulating cortisol levels tell the hypothalamus that the adrenal glands are functioning up to par. By inhibiting conversion to cortisone, you not only reduce stress response, you also trick the hypothalamus into giving the adrenals a little holiday, by inhibiting the CRH cascade. Don't take licorice for more than four weeks. It can lead to other disturbances.
> P.S. Or you could save the response for when we are chatting with Larry and his better half in the hot-tub. LOL
Maybe Bob's little get-together next year might be a chance to do just that?
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:24:34
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » Simus, posted by KaraS on August 3, 2004, at 14:09:55
> You definitely sound better and on the road to recovery. Have you ever considered taking probiotics or triphala?
What can you tell me about triphala?
> P.S. We should call over and make sure Larry and his girlfriend save us some space. If not, we could always ask them later at night when we're camped out with our sleeping bags in their hotel room!I think that might be pushing the hospitality a tad. ;-)
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:29:21
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 3, 2004, at 21:36:25
> I need serious help with sleep! Isn't tryptophan the amino acid that was banned in this country?
It was quite publicly banned, but quite quietly reinstated. The only new criterion applied to it is that, if sold for human consumption, the distributor/manufacturer is responsible for its purity.
There is so much attention paid to the quality of tryptophan on the market today, I have zero concern that the contaminant responsible for the initial hoohah will ever be found again, in tryptophan. The process responsible for that contaminant is no longer in use, anywhere.
> I have read a lot about 5HTP (I think that is right), but I was a little concerned about serotonin syndrome when I was on Lexapro so I didn't try it. But that probably wouldn't be a problem now that I am on Wellbutrin. I will have to look into it again.
Correct on both counts. Some concern with Lexapro, but little to none with Wellbutrin. Still, tryptophan would be my number one pick.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:45:45
In reply to Re: what I'm taking, posted by KaraS on August 4, 2004, at 1:17:30
> I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
'Twas she who brought them to my attention. :-)
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:55:59
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 8, 2004, at 13:39:35
> By the way, allergies go along with adrenal fatigue, and with the horrible adrenal exhaustion I had last spring, I suffered from the worst allergies of my life.
By way of anecdote, my trial last spring of Enada NADH (along with additional niacinamide) not only provided me with unprecedented energy and resiliency, but my allergies were virtually absent. I typically require double-doses of allergy meds, along with inhaled steroids, just to remain functional. But not during that trial.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:59:18
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying, posted by KaraS on August 8, 2004, at 15:10:57
> I read over on the Administration board that a Psycho-Babble 6th year anniversary party is being planned (for next year I think?) in Chicago. Wouldn't that be interesting? I'd love to meet the people I've been conversing with - esp. you and Larry. Larry would be treated like a rock star. What an ego trip that would be!
Would that be rock star with groupies, or without?
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:05:14
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:59:18
> > I read over on the Administration board that a Psycho-Babble 6th year anniversary party is being planned (for next year I think?) in Chicago. Wouldn't that be interesting? I'd love to meet the people I've been conversing with - esp. you and Larry. Larry would be treated like a rock star. What an ego trip that would be!
>
> Would that be rock star with groupies, or without?
>
> Lar
Well, Simus and I are a little old for that kind of thing but perhaps you have some younger female fans as well...
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:13:30
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 13, 2004, at 22:28:40
> > > > Hopefully I didn't offend you with my last round of Larry on vacation jokes. You didn't carry the conversation any further so I wanted to make sure. (It's not like we haven't beaten that thing to death already though...) BTW, I LOVED your James Bond comparison. Too funny esp. the line about you thinking he was just being temperamental when he threw his drink at you. Anyway, I think he's back today so we'll have to find some other topic of amusement.
> > >
> > > No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
> > >
> > > Simus
> >
> >
> > It's a little late for embarrassment now, don't you think?
> >
> > -K
>
> Oh, please don't be embarassed....I've only read a few, and they were quite funny and imaginative.
>
> I suppose the topics were sufficiently alternative that they also were permitted to drift slightly off on Alpine tangents.... I wish I had one of those Hoover, Larry Hoover moments....
>
> Talk more on the morrow.
>
> Lar
>We were only kidding about being embarrassed. We thought you'd find it amusing.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:15:15
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? Phenylalanine, posted by robot on August 10, 2004, at 21:41:18
> I would like to know your opinions about phenylalanine. My doctor said its not good to take, and Ive read that it promotes nerve cell death (and some say cancer, but that actually worries me less).
Phenylalanine does not promote cancer, nor does it cause nerve cell death.
> I have taken the supplements before, without much result. ONe time, however, I took 500 mg (without having taken it for quite awhile) and I had a weird anxiety that lasted through the next day. I felt very irritable and confused.
There are many reasons to feel irritable and confused. Linking those feelings to a tiny dose (500 mg is very small, with respect to amino acid doses) of phenylalanine is not reasonable, if you didn't rechallenge yourself with some more, another time. I actually prefer a triple challenge, to reduce the likelihood of coincidental occurrences or placebo effect to a minimum. Placebo effect can be positive, or negative.
> Since then I have tried Spirulina powder. It seemed to stimulate me a little, but I discovered that it makes me even more mentally fuzzy than normal. Could this be the phenylalanine content? If not, what could it be? (Ive been on Lexapro 20 mg during this time.)
Some algae products contain alkaloids with psychoactive properties. It's hard to say.
> I would like to try phenyl again sometime but I want to know Im not risking something that could make my problems worse.
> thanks guysI doubt you can hurt yourself with it, if that's what you're worried about.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:21:51
In reply to Re: Supplements for brain fog? Phenylalanine » KaraS, posted by robot on August 11, 2004, at 21:08:12
> http://adc.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/archdischild;78/2/116
>
> Ive seen that word "neurotoxic" associated with it more than once.
>Uhhhh, the article is only relevant to phenylketonurics. It doesn't apply to healthy people, in any respect. Phenylalanine is not neurotoxic. It's one of those myths, often used to explain aspartame toxicity, which is itself not a clear syndrome.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:24:44
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:59:18
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:25:02
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » KaraS, posted by Simus on August 13, 2004, at 16:46:46
> No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
>
> SimusEvery one. ;-)
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:29:20
In reply to Lar, can you comment on Robot's question above? (nm) » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:24:44
Oops, you must have been replying to him as I was typing that...
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:32:07
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:24:34
> > You definitely sound better and on the road to recovery. Have you ever considered taking probiotics or triphala?
>
> What can you tell me about triphala?
Not that much. Just what I've read on iHerb.com's website and the fact that my friend is taking it now and thinks that it's helping her.
One of her traditional doctors (a gastroenterologist) is of Indian descent and he recommended it to her.Here's a blurb from iHerb:
"Planetary Formulas Triphala Internal Cleanser is a potent yet gentle formula, designed to support the body's natural cleansing process. It has been one of the most important formulas of Ayurvedic herbalism for thousands of years. Triphala is a balanced blend of three Indian herbal fruits: harada, amla, and behada. This formula is unique in that the astringent qualities of the fruits serve to tonify the colon, thereby promoting internal cleansing naturally."
>
> > P.S. We should call over and make sure Larry and his girlfriend save us some space. If not, we could always ask them later at night when we're camped out with our sleeping bags in their hotel room!
>
> I think that might be pushing the hospitality a tad. ;-)
>
> Lar
>Oh, some people just don't know the meaning of sharing...
-K
Posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:33:15
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:45:45
> > I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
>
> 'Twas she who brought them to my attention. :-)
For reals? Does she read and post here too?
Posted by gabbix2 on August 14, 2004, at 20:11:47
In reply to Re: what I'm taking » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 12:45:45
> > I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
>
> 'Twas she who brought them to my attention. :-)
Gee she sounds like a real gem.
And word has it she's super-babe of the universe too. : )
Posted by Simus on August 14, 2004, at 23:45:35
In reply to Re: what I'm planning on trying » Simus, posted by Larry Hoover on August 14, 2004, at 13:25:02
> > No problem. Larry's coming back today??? You don't think he will read all those posts, do you? ***blush***
> >
> > Simus
>
> Every one. ;-)Lar,
Thanks for being a good sport. Good to have you back!
Simus
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 15, 2004, at 13:48:42
In reply to Re: what I'm taking, posted by KaraS on August 14, 2004, at 13:33:15
> > > I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
> >
> > 'Twas she who brought them to my attention. :-)
>
>
> For reals? Does she read and post here too?Maybe. :-p
She loves that *I* do, and loves me more for doing it.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 15, 2004, at 16:49:19
In reply to Re: what I'm taking, posted by gabbix2 on August 14, 2004, at 20:11:47
> > > I'm sure Larry would laugh at all of our wise-cracks. (His girlfriend might not find it as funny.)
> >
> > 'Twas she who brought them to my attention. :-)
>
>
> Gee she sounds like a real gem.
> And word has it she's super-babe of the universe too. : )
>
>How do you know? Were you there in the Swiss Alps too? Geez, everyone was there but me!
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