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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JLx on October 12, 2003, at 9:54:53
I'be been taking 25mg per day and it helps with depression. I first noticed that by accidentally buying a DHEA-less version of my usual brand of a women's over-40 herbal formula. I'm wondering what experiences/info others have. Some studies I had copied from the biopsychiatry.com site:
Dehydroepiandrosterone
treatment of midlife dysthymia
by
Bloch M, Schmidt PJ, Danaceau MA, Adams LF, Rubinow DR
Behavioral Endocrinology Branch,
National Institute of Mental Health,
Bethesda, MD 20892-1276, USA.
Biol Psychiatry 1999 Jun 15; 45(12):1533-41ABSTRACT
BACKGROUND: This study evaluated the efficacy of the adrenal androgen,
dehydroepiandrosterone, in the treatment of midlife-onset dysthymia. METHODS: A double-blind, randomized crossover treatment study was performed as follows: 3 weeks on 90 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, 3 weeks on 450 mg dehydroepiandrosterone, and 6 weeks on placebo. Outcome measures consisted of the following. Cross-sectional self-ratings included the Beck Depression Inventory, and visual analogue symptom scales. Cross-sectional objective ratings included the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale, the Cornell Dysthymia Scale and a cognitive test battery. Seventeen men and women aged 45 to 63 years with midlife-onset dysthymia participated in this study. Response to dehydroepiandrosterone or placebo was defined as a 50% reduction from baseline in either the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale or the Beck Depression Inventory. RESULTS: In 15 patients who completed the study, a robust effect of dehydroepiandrosterone on mood was observed compared with placebo. Sixty percent of the patients responded to dehydroepiandrosterone at the end of the 6-week treatment period compared with 20% on placebo. A significant response was seen after 3 weeks of treatment on 90 mg per day. The symptoms that improved most significantly were anhedonia, loss of energy, lack of motivation, emotional "numbness," sadness, inability to cope, and worry. Dehydroepiandrosterone showed no specific effects on cognitive function or sleep disturbance, although a type II error could not be ruled out. CONCLUSIONS: This pilot study suggests that dehydroepiandrosterone is an effective treatment for midlife-onset dysthymia.(DHEA)
treatment of depression
by
Wolkowitz OM; Reus VI; Roberts E; Manfredi F;
Chan T; Raum WJ; Ormiston S; Johnson R;
Canick J; Brizendine L; Weingartner H
Department of Psychiatry,
University of California,
San Francisco, School of Medicine 94143-0984, USA
Biol Psychiatry, 1997 Feb, 41:3, 311-8Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and its sulfate, DHEA-S, are plentiful adrenal steroid hormones that decrease with aging and may have significant neuropsychiatric effects. In this study, six middle-aged and elderly patients with major depression and low basal plasma DHEA f1p4or DHEA-S levels were openly administered DHEA (30-90 mg/d x 4 weeks) in doses sufficient to achieve circulating plasma levels observed in younger healthy individuals. Depression ratings, as well as aspects of memory performance significantly improved. One treatment-resistant patient received extended treatment with DHEA for 6 months: her depression ratings improved 48-72% and her semantic memory performance improved 63%. These measures returned to baseline after treatment ended. In both studies, improvements in depression ratings and memory performance were directly related to increases in plasma levels of DHEA and DHEA-S and to increases in their ratios with plasma cortisol levels. These preliminary data suggest DHEA may have antidepressant and promemory effects and should encourage double-blind trials in depressed patients.
Dehydroepiandrosterone replacement
in women with adrenal insufficiency by Arlt W, Callies F, van Vlijmen JC, Koehler I, Reincke M, Bidlingmaier M, Huebler D, Oettel M, Ernst M, Schulte HM, Allolio B
Department of Endocrinology, Medical University Hospital, Wuerzburg, Germany. w.arlt@medizin.uni-wuerzburg.de N Engl J Med 1999 Sep 30; 341(14):1013-20ABSTRACT
BACKGROUND: The physiologic role of dehydroepiandrosterone in humans is still unclear. Adrenal insufficiency leads to a deficiency of dehydroepiandrosterone; we therefore, investigated the effects of dehydroepiandrosterone replacement, in patients with adrenal insufficiency. METHODS: In a double-blind study, 24 women with adrenal insufficiency received in random order 50 mg of dehydroepiandrosterone orally each morning for four months and placebo daily for four months, with a one-month washout period. We measured serum steroid hormones, insulin-like growth factor I, lipids, and sex hormone-binding globulin, and we evaluated well-being and sexuality with the use of validated psychological questionnaires and visual-analogue scales, respectively. The women were assessed before treatment, after one and four months of treatment with dehydroepiandrosterone, after one and four months of placebo, and one month after the end of the second treatment period. RESULTS: Treatment with dehydroepiandrosterone raised the initially low serum concentrations of dehydroepiandrosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate, androstenedione, and testosterone into the normal range; serum concentrations of sex hormone-binding globulin, total cholesterol, and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol decreased significantly. Dehydroepiandrosterone significantly improved overall well-being as well as scores for depression and anxiety. For the global severity index, the mean (+/-SD) change from base line was -0.18+/-0.29 after four months of dehydroepiandrosterone therapy, as compared with 0.03+/-0.29 after four months of placebo (P=0.02). As compared with placebo, dehydroepiandrosterone significantly increased the frequency of sexual thoughts (P=0.006), sexual interest (P=0.002), and satisfaction with both mental and physical aspects of sexuality (P=0.009 and P=0.02, respectively). CONCLUSIONS: Dehydroepiandrosterone improves well-being and sexuality in women with adrenal insufficiency.
Posted by JLx on October 12, 2003, at 10:00:04
In reply to DHEA - pros? cons?, posted by JLx on October 12, 2003, at 9:54:53
Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA)
(Dehydroepiandrosterone)
DHEA has been heavily publicized for its potential use as an anti-aging agent. It is a hormone that functions as a precursor for the production of more than 50 other hormones in the body. It is estimated that from 30 to 50 percent of testosterone in men and about 75 percent of estrogen in women is derived from DHEA. Human production of DHEA normally peaks during a person’s mid-20s and then begins a steady, progressive decline.
DHEA is only produced in the bodies of humans and other primates such as monkeys and apes. There are no good dietary sources of DHEA other than supplementation.
Drug/Nutrient InteractionsAntidepressants
Estrogen and estrogen-like medications
Anticoagulant medications
Central nervous system stimulants
Diabetic / Hypoglycemic medications
Much of the press on DHEA has covered its potential use in slowing the aging process. Studies have suggested that DHEA can enhance muscle strength and lean body mass while boosting immunity. Other benefits may include enhanced energy and sex drive, improved mood and sleep patterns, and a greater capacity to deal with stress.(1) Further studies in animals suggest that DHEA may be helpful for such conditions as obesity, cancer and Alzheimer’s disease.More extensive studies on the use of DHEA in the treatment of depression in elderly people have also yielded promising results.(2) DHEA may improve symptoms of diabetes and lupus.(3, 4, 5) DHEA is also being evaluated for its anti-inflammatory and antioxidant behavior,(6, 7) possibly playing a role in the prevention of atherosclerosis.(8) Recent laboratory work indicates that DHEA may play a role in the prevention and growth of cancerous tumors though the reason why is still unclear.(9, 10)
DHEA has exhibited some promise in easing the symptoms of menopause. As women get older and approach menopause, their DHEA levels begin to decrease. One study showed that among the group of women studied, the older women with lower DHEA levels had more symptoms of depression.(11) Other studies have confirmed that overall mental health is not as good in peri- and postmenopausal women when DHEA levels are low.(12)
DHEA supplementation has improved sexual arousal in postmenopausal women.(13) A study involving 120 postmenopausal women between the ages of 51 and 99 has noted that good DHEA-sulfate levels are directly related to good bone mineral density.(14) One study suggests that long-term use of DHEA may decrease certain cardiovascular risks in postmenopausal women.(15) Also, in postmenopausal women, DHEA has shown similar hormonal effects as estrogen-progestin replacement therapy.(16)
AIDS and HIV are also areas of DHEA research. It has been reported that DHEA reduces the replication of the HIV-1 virus.(17) Also, since DHEA levels decline as the HIV progresses,(18) a human trial involving 32 HIV infected individuals was carried out to determine if DHEA supplementation could improve the quality of life for these individuals. Compared to the individuals taking placebo, those taking DHEA experienced a significant increase in DHEA blood levels as well as a significant improvement in the Mental Health and Health Distress part of the Medical Outcomes Study HIV Health (MOS-HIV) Survey.(19)
Commercially available doses range from 5-200mg. However, doctors have been known to request compounding pharmacists to prepare DHEA prescriptions for patients in doses ranging from 5-200mg per capsule. Men usually take higher doses than women. The most common dosage for DHEA is 25mg daily but ideally doses should be individualized to a patient’s individual needs. Capsules, oral and sublingual tablets, liquid and creams.
Toxicities & PrecautionsBe sure to tell your pharmacist, doctor or other health care providers about any dietary supplements you are taking. There may be a potential for interactions or side effects.
General
This dietary supplement is considered safe when used in accordance with proper dosing guidelines.
Health Conditions
If you have a risk of hormone-related cancer, such as prostate, ovarian, endometrial and breast cancer, talk to your doctor before taking this dietary supplement.
Side Effects
Occasional side effects reported with the use of large doses of this dietary supplement include acne, excessive hair growth, mood changes such as irritability and aggressiveness(20), insomnia, fatigue and low energy. It may be necessary to reduce the dose of this dietary supplement. Tell your doctor if these side effects become severe or do not go away.
Less common side effects include headaches, nervousness, a deepening of the voice, and menstrual cycle irregularities.(21) Tell your doctor if these side effects become severe or do not go away.
Pregnancy/Breast-FeedingTo date, the medical literature has not reported any adverse effects related to fetal development during pregnancy or to infants who are breast-fed. Yet little is known about the use of this dietary supplement while pregnant or breast-feeding. Therefore, it is recommended that you inform your healthcare practitioner of any dietary supplements you are using while pregnant or breast-feeding.
Age Limitations
This supplement should not be used with children unless as recommended by a physician.
Footnotes
1 Yen SS, et al. Replacement of DHEA in Aging Men and Women. Potential Remedial Effects. Ann N Y Acad Sci. Dec1995;774:128-42.2 Goodyer IM, et al. Adrenal Secretion during Major Depression in 8- to 16-year-olds, I. Altered Diurnal Rhythms in Salivary Cortisol and Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) at Presentation. Psychol Med. Mar1996;26(2):245-56.
3 Casson P, et al. Replacement of DHEA Enhances T-lymphocyte Insulin Binding in Postmenopausal Women. Fertil Steril. 1995;63(5):1027-31.
4 Bates GW, et al. Dehydroepiandrosterone Attenuates Study-induced Declines in Insulin Sensitivity in Postmenopausal Women. Ann NY Acad Sci. Dec1995;774:291-93.
5 Suzuki T, et al. Low Serum Levels of DHEA May Cause Deficient IL-2 Production by Lymphocytes in Patients with SLE. Clin Exp Immunol. 1995;99(2):251-55.6 Shen S, Cooley DM, Glickman LT, et al. Reduction in DNA damage in brain and peripheral blood lymphocytes of elderly dogs after treatment with dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA). Mutat Res. Sep2001;480-481(1-2):153-62.
7 Araghiniknam M, Chung S, Nelson-White T, et al. Antioxidant activity of dioscorea and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in older humans. Life Sci. 1996;59(11):PL147-57.
8 Khalil A, Fortin JP, LeHoux JG, Fulop T. Age-related decrease of dehydroepiandrosterone concentrations in low density lipoproteins and its role in the susceptibility of low density lipoproteins to lipid peroxidation. J Lipid Res. Oct2000;41(10):1552-61.
9 Schwartz AG, Pashko LL. Cancer prevention with dehydroepiandrosterone and non-androgenic structural analogs. J Cell Biochem Suppl. 1995;22:210-7.
10 Williams JR. The effects of dehydroepiandrosterone on carcinogenesis, obesity, the immune system, and aging. Lipids. Mar2000;35(3):325-31.
11 Morrison MF, et al. DHEA-S levels and depressive symptoms in a cohort of African American and Caucasian women in the late reproductive years. Biol Psychiatry. Nov2001;50(9):705-11.
12 Nagata C, et al. Serum concentrations of estradiol and dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate and soy product intake in relation to psychologic well-being in peri- and postmenopausal Japanese women. Metabolism. Dec2000;49(12):1561-4.
13 Hackbert L, Heiman JR. Acute dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) effects on sexual arousal in postmenopausal women. J Womens Health Gend Based Med. Mar2002;11(2):155-62.
14 Takayanagi R, et al. Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) as a possible source for estrogen formation in bone cells: correlation between bone mineral density and serum DHEA-sulfate concentration in postmenopausal women, and the presence of aromatase to be enhanced by 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3 in human osteoblasts. Mech Ageing Dev. Apr2002;123(8):1107-14.
15 Lasco A, Frisina N, Morabito N, et al. Metabolic effects of dehydroepiandrosterone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women. Eur J Endocrinol. Oct2001;145(4):457-61.
16 Genazzani AD, et al. Oral dehydroepiandrosterone supplementation modulates spontaneous and growth hormone-releasing hormone-induced growth hormone and insulin-like growth factor-1 secretion in early and late postmenopausal women. Fertil Steril. Aug2001;76(2):241-8.
17 Henderson E, Yang JY, Schwartz A. Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) and synthetic DHEA analogs are modest inhibitors of HIV-1 IIIB replication. AIDS Res Hum Retroviruses. May1992;8(5):625-31.
18 Mulder JW, Frissen PH, Krijnen P, et al. Dehydroepiandrosterone as predictor for progression to AIDS in asymptomatic human immunodeficiency virus-infected men. J Infect Dis. Mar1992;165(3):413-8.
19 Piketty C, Jayle D, Leplege A, Castiel P, Ecosse E, Gonzalez-Canali G, et al. Double-blind placebo-controlled trial of oral dehydroepiandrosterone in patients with advanced HIV disease. Clinical Endocrinology. 2001;55(3):325-330).
20 Dean CE. Prasterone (DHEA) and mania. Ann Pharmacother. Dec2000;34(12):1419-22.
21 Cizza G, et al. Circulating plasma leptin and IGF-1 levels in girls with premature adrenarche: potential implications of a preliminary study. Horm Metab Res. Mar2001;33(3):138-43.
Interaction Type: Drug/Nutrient Interactions
Interaction Rating: Potential/Theoretical
Studies report that DHEA may act in the body like some of these medications, which may alter the effects of these medications and possibly the dose needed for treatment. Use with caution.These drugs include fluoxetine, fluvoxamine, paroxetine, sertraline, amitriptyline, amoxapine, clomipramine, desipramine, doxepin, imipramine, nortriptyline, trimipramine, maprotiline, mirtazapine, trazodone, bupropion, venlafaxine, nefazodone, citalopram, protriptyline, phenelzine, tranylcypromine, isocarboxazid .
Important! If you are using any of these medications or are unsure about which medications you are using, check with your pharmacist or other healthcare professional before using any dietary supplements.
References
1 Hunt PJ, Gurnell EM, Huppert FA, Richards C, Prevost AT, Wass JA, et al. Improvement in mood and fatigue after dehydroepiandrosterone replacement in Addison's disease in a randomized, double blind trial. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. Dec2000;85(12):4650-6.View Abstract2 Wolkowitz OM, Reus VI, Keebler A, et al. Double-blind Treatment of Major Depression with Dehydroepiandrosterone. Am J Psychiatry. Apr1999;156(4):646-9.View Abstract
Journal: Am J Psychiatry
OBJECTIVE: This study was designed to assess possible antidepressant effects of dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA), an abundant adrenocortical hormone in humans. METHOD: Twenty-two patients with major depression, either medication-free or on stabilized antidepressant regimens, received either DHEA (maximum dose = 90 mg/day) or placebo for 6 weeks in a double-blind manner and were rated at baseline and at the end of the 6 weeks with the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale. Patients previously stabilized with antidepressants had the study medication added to that regimen; others received DHEA or placebo alone. RESULTS: DHEA was associated with a significantly greater decrease in Hamilton depression scale ratings than was placebo. Five of the 11 patients treated with DHEA, compared with none of the 11 given placebo, showed a 50% decrease or greater in depressive symptoms. CONCLUSIONS: These results suggest that DHEA treatment may have significant antidepressant effects in some patients with major depression. Further, larger-scale trials are warranted. Author: Wolkowitz OM, Reus VI, Keebler A, Nelson N, Friedland M, Brizendine L, Roberts E.Date: 4/1999
How Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) interacts with Central nervous system stimulants
Interaction Type: Drug/Nutrient Interactions Close Window
Interaction Rating: Potential/Theoretical--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Studies report that DHEA may act in the body like some of these medications, which may alter the effects of these medications and possibly the dose needed for treatment. Use with caution.These drugs include caffeine, amphetamine, ephedra, methylphenidate, phentermine, pemoline, guarana, methamphetamine, dextroamphetamine, dexmethylphenidate, diethylpropion, benzphetamine, doxapram, modafinil, phendimetrazine, sibutramine .
Important! If you are using any of these medications or are unsure about which medications you are using, check with your pharmacist or other healthcare professional before using any dietary supplements.
References
1 Pirnay F. Le dopage e et sport. Rev Med Liege. Apr2001;56(4):265-8.
View Abstract--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author: Labrie F, Diamond P, Cusan L, Gomez JL, Belanger A, Candas B
Date: 10/1997
Journal: J Clin Endocrinol Metab
The effect of 12-month dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) replacement therapy has been evaluated in 14 60- to 70-yr-old women who received daily applications of a 10% DHEA cream. Vaginal epithelium maturation was stimulated by DHEA administration in 8 of 10 women who had a maturation value of zero at the onset of therapy, whereas a stimulatory effect was also seen in all three women who had an intermediate vaginal maturation index before therapy. The estrogenic effect of DHEA observed in the vagina was not observed in the endometrium, which remained atrophic in all women. Most interesting, the bone mineral density significantly increased at the hip from 0.744 +/- 0.021 to 0.759 +/- 0.025 g/cm2 after 12 months of treatment (P < 0.05). These changes in bone mineral density were associated with a significant 20.0% decrease (P < 0.01) in plasma bone alkaline phosphatase and a 28% decrease in the urinary hydroxyproline/creatinine ratio. A 2.1-fold increase over the control value (P < 0.01) in plasma osteocalcin was concomitantly observed. The present data describe for the first time a series of medically important beneficial effects of DHEA therapy in postmenopausal women through transformation of the precursor steroid DHEA into androgens and/or estrogens in specific peripheral intracrine tissues without significant adverse effects. The stimulatory effect on the vaginal epithelium in the absence of stimulation of the endometrium is of particular interest because it eliminates the need for progestin replacement therapy. On the other hand, the stimulatory effect on bone mineral density accompanied by an increase in serum osteocalcin, a marker of bone formation, suggests stimulation of bone formation by the androgenic action of DHEA, a finding of particular interest for both the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis.
Posted by tealady on October 13, 2003, at 5:06:35
In reply to Re: DHEA - more info, posted by JLx on October 12, 2003, at 10:00:04
In the last study you quoted...
>Author: Labrie F, Diamond P, Cusan L, Gomez JL, >Belanger A, Candas B
>Date: 10/1997
>Journal: J Clin Endocrinol Metab
>The effect of 12-month dehydroepiandrosterone >>(DHEA) replacement therapy has been evaluated >in >14 60- to 70-yr-old women who received daily >applications of a 10% DHEA cream. VaginalDo you know if they are referring to vaginal application of a DHEA cream here?..I can only get the abstract. It's interesting if so, as I have never heard of it being used this way?
Thanks, Jan
Posted by Kacy on October 14, 2003, at 19:53:22
In reply to Re: DHEA - more info, posted by tealady on October 13, 2003, at 5:06:35
Posted by JLx on October 27, 2003, at 7:14:39
In reply to Re: DHEA - more info, posted by tealady on October 13, 2003, at 5:06:35
> In the last study you quoted...
> >Author: Labrie F, Diamond P, Cusan L, Gomez JL, >Belanger A, Candas B
> >Date: 10/1997
> >Journal: J Clin Endocrinol Metab
> >The effect of 12-month dehydroepiandrosterone >>(DHEA) replacement therapy has been evaluated >in >14 60- to 70-yr-old women who received daily >applications of a 10% DHEA cream. Vaginal
>
> Do you know if they are referring to vaginal application of a DHEA cream here?..I can only get the abstract. It's interesting if so, as I have never heard of it being used this way?
>
> Thanks, JanI don't know, but here's a page of many abstracts re DHEA: http://dreampharm.com/dhea/dhea-research-abstracts.html
Posted by bobbyswitchblade on November 1, 2003, at 17:50:47
In reply to Re: DHEA - more info » tealady, posted by JLx on October 27, 2003, at 7:14:39
For about a month i have been seeing a wholistic doctor who determined, determined though a saliva test that my adrenals are not functioning properly. I was diagnosed with depression many many years ago and anti depressants never helped- the only thing that did help was a stimulant called adderal although it stopped working after 3 months, after just a few nights of drinking seemed to through me completely back out of whack. I stopped drinking of course but the adderall, which before had been at once calming and energizing seemed to make me worse. SInce then I have had ECT through which I also experienced a rise and fall. Nothing has helped since. I have no energy and cannot think straight at all. These recent tests show that I have depressed morning cortisol levels and elevated evening levels. Of course this revelation seems worth persuing however i do not know how to treat as there are just so many options and in my ming so many contradictions. My doc through some adrenal extract and something called Seriphos in my direction, both made me feel feel even more fatigued and gave me a head and stomache ache, now we are trying DHEA and low-dose hydrocortisone. From what I undersatand DHEA works to lower cortisol while Hydrocortisone has the opposite effect. Although I am willing to try anything I don't think I could handle things getting any worse. Any advice reguarding my dilemna would be much appreciated. I am just drowing in a sea of confusion and am desperate for some degree od clarity or positive reinforcement.
Posted by tealady on November 1, 2003, at 18:21:37
In reply to adrenal disfunction/ depression/ HELP, posted by bobbyswitchblade on November 1, 2003, at 17:50:47
Hmm, first that may be a expected pattern if you worked night shift? So what shifts do you work..what hours do you sleep?
Here's a chart of "normal" cortisol circadian rhythm http://www.physiol.arizona.edu/PSIO467/fall01/slideshows/AssayandMeasurementofHormones.pdf pp17
Also from http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/fulltext/stress4-4.html have you tried these ideas.
A combo of DHEA and cortisol is a bit of a concern to me , unless other things have been tired first. Also the timing of doses of cortisol etc is important...and I haven't heard it used for this.(not saying it may not be)
"Nutrients and Stress: Resetting the 24-Hour ClockStress results in disruption of the circadian rhythmic secretion of cortisol. There are currently several tools which can reset the 24-hour clock. Exposure to sunshine or a bright light between 6:00 and 8:00 am, regulating the light in the sleeping environment, and schedule restructuring are all possible strategies. Two supplements have also been used to reset this rhythm Ñ the well-known pineal gland hormone, melatonin, and methylcobalamin, a coenzyme form of vitamin B12. While these techniques do not work for everyone, one or a combination of several of the above appear to be successful in at least two-thirds of people with primary circadian rhythm problems.99,100
An effective method to phase-shift the human circadian rhythm is the use of a combination of bright-light exposure and methylcobalamin. Methylcobalamin is thought to assist bright light in resetting the circadian rhythm by enhancing the light sensitivity of the circadian clock.101,102 Methylcobalamin also appears to generate the right quality of sleep activity by both reducing sleep time and improving sleep quality, resulting in feeling refreshed upon waking.103-105
Perhaps the greatest advantage of methylcobalamin as a supplement for people with disrupted circadian rhythms secondary to stress may be its impact on cortisol. Although methylcobalamin does not impact total levels of cortisol, evidence suggests it might help shift the cortisol secretion peak, helping place the cortisol clock back on schedule.106"
Jan
Posted by JLx on November 2, 2003, at 11:03:02
In reply to adrenal disfunction/ depression/ HELP, posted by bobbyswitchblade on November 1, 2003, at 17:50:47
> For about a month i have been seeing a wholistic doctor who determined, determined though a saliva test that my adrenals are not functioning properly.
Your doc recommended no other supplements or dietary changes? I make notes from this board when somebody says something relevant to me:
"Commonly recommended adrenal supports are vitamin C (gram doses, up to three times a day), magnesium, selenium, pantothenate, B-complex (in other words, extra pantothenate on top of that in a B-complex), alphalipoic acid, long-chain omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil).
For some reason pantothenic acid keeps coming up in my research. Just emphasizing it again." http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20031003/msgs/271971.html
>These recent tests show that I have depressed morning cortisol levels and elevated evening levels.
There's a book I've read called "The Cortisol Connection" that talks about that very thing, including recommendations. Here's his website: http://www.cortisolconnection.com/index.php
One of his recommendations was to get to bed before 10 pm to help normalize the cortisol rise and fall. If I remember correctly, I think he also says he himself takes theanine in the evenings for this purpose too. (Theanine is an over-the-counter amino acid).
>I was diagnosed with depression many many years ago and anti depressants never helped- the only thing that did help was a stimulant called adderal although it stopped working after 3 months, ... SInce then I have had ECT through which I also experienced a rise and fall. Nothing has helped since. I have no energy and cannot think straight at all.
I hear ya. I, too, have had long time depression not relieved for long with any anti-depressant I tried. I think the key is figuring out what kind of depression, and then trial and error to what works -- and it will probably turn out to be a very interwoven combination of things. For me and from what I've seen many others here, the problem is achieving balance as I believe we have some sensitive brain chemistry (and other biology) going on here, so a correction one way throws off something else another way. And it takes time for these nondrug regimens to work too. But they can help. Magnesium was a big key for me, despite thinking I had it covered by taking a multi-vitamin/mineral. Here's a lengthy site about one man's experience and research: http://www.coldcure.com/html/dep.html
He says,
"Electroconvulsive shock treatment (ECT) lowers calcium concentrations thus promoting a more healthful calcium/magnesium ratio."
This suggests to me that if ECT works this way and it helped you, albeit for a short time, magnesium supplementation may also help. If you try it, make sure you use a form of magnesium that will be effective (magnesium oxide is not very absorbable) and not contraindicated for depression (magnesium glutamate and aspartate are not advised). On that site Eby recommends magnesium taurinate, which I haven't tried. I like magnesium glycinate, and mg malate. Mg citrate is less tolerable to me, meaning more conducive to diarrhea so I have to take less at a time. I've also diluted magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts). Epsom salt baths, btw, are a good way to get some magnesium in your bod and are relaxing too.
This is something else I found helpful in directing me to what I should try:
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/checklist/Another was the e-book of Patricial Slagle which you can read free here: http://www.thewayup.com/
Stick around and talk with folks here, some are very knowledgeable and have really "been around the block" and may have just the comparable experience/advice that will help you. :) (I, for one, feel better these days on my natural regimen -- which include dietary changes -- than I ever did on any drug or nothing at all.)
This is the end of the thread.
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