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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by lotus on October 1, 2003, at 14:29:48
In reply to Supplements for OCD + social anxiety, posted by rianny on October 1, 2003, at 4:59:47
Here's a site that has some info on alternative methods for ocd.
www.alternativementalhealth.com/articles/OCD.htm
And also www.omega3.20megsfree.com/
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 18:54:42
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety, posted by lotus on October 1, 2003, at 14:29:48
The omegas you're taking are a good start. There is a ton you can add on to help both social anxiety and OCD. Inositol is (arguably) the best supplement for OCD -- in very large doses, around 12 grams a day, it works wonderfully in some OCD patients. Only problem is that it may be a little expensive to take that much, though even supplementing with half that amount or so should help a bit, I'd say. 5-HTP is another good choice, though I'd personally buy l-tryptophan if I were you -- it seems to work better in most people. Make sure to supplement with P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate; a form of vitamin B6, way better than the usual B6 supplement, pyridoxine HCl) and a very good multinutrient ("Super Earth Formula", manufactured by Bluebonnet, is my favorite) when taking these since they are important to their conversion into serotonin. Take tryptophan with a small amount of carbohydrates (i.e. a piece of fruit, a slice of bread) but on an otherwise empty stomach. Either of these supplements have the potential to help social anxiety as well as OCD.
For the social anxiety, I have many suggestions. First on the list is niacinamide, which binds to benzodiazepine receptors and has a relaxing effect. I find that taking one of the 1.5 gram extended-release tablets each 12 hours works best. Picamilon is a truly great option (although you'll probably have to order it online -- Smart Nutrition's website sells it cheapest). Picamilon is a combination of niacin and GABA, bonded molecularly. GABA is the brain chemical that benzodiazepines cause to act more efficiently, but regular GABA supplements don't pass through the blood-brain barrier in sufficient quantity to help. Bonded to niacin however, it's efficiently absorbed into the brain and is an extremely effective antianxiety/antidepressant supplement.
I know kava has been banned in Canada (which I think is absolutely ridiculous), but the stuff you buy in stores isn't very good quality anyway. I might suggest you order some good quality Mahakea kava from Hawai'i. Nothing beats anxiety like a properly prepared kava concoction (not even benzos, in my opinion). Other options include valerian root (especially combined with passion flower), St. John's Wort, skullcap, ashwagandha, eleuthero root, reishi mushroom, and lemon balm. I also suggest using the homeopathic remedy "Gelsemium sempervirens" in the most potent form you can find. The potency of homeopathic remedies is denoted by a number followed by usually either an X or a C. The X remedies are much more potent, and the lower the number in front of the X, the more potent it is. You just let these sweet-tasting tiny pellets under your tongue to dissolve several times a day and let them work their magic.
That's all I can think of at the moment -- I'll let you know if I come up with anything else!
Posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 19:23:34
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety ?lotus, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 18:54:42
Thank you Ame.
So, how much relief are you getting from these natural supplements? I read that you are also a OCD/anxiety patient.Have you taken or are you taking any medication other than supplements? I'm taking Klonopin .25mg in the morning and .25mg at bedtime, but I become too sleepy in morning...so I guess I'll take .5mg at bedtime. I'm going to see my pdoc next week, but I'm not sure if I have to ask for another SSRI to try or not.
Any suggestions?
> The omegas you're taking are a good start. There is a ton you can add on to help both social anxiety and OCD. Inositol is (arguably) the best supplement for OCD -- in very large doses, around 12 grams a day, it works wonderfully in some OCD patients. Only problem is that it may be a little expensive to take that much, though even supplementing with half that amount or so should help a bit, I'd say. 5-HTP is another good choice, though I'd personally buy l-tryptophan if I were you -- it seems to work better in most people. Make sure to supplement with P5P (pyridoxal-5-phosphate; a form of vitamin B6, way better than the usual B6 supplement, pyridoxine HCl) and a very good multinutrient ("Super Earth Formula", manufactured by Bluebonnet, is my favorite) when taking these since they are important to their conversion into serotonin. Take tryptophan with a small amount of carbohydrates (i.e. a piece of fruit, a slice of bread) but on an otherwise empty stomach. Either of these supplements have the potential to help social anxiety as well as OCD.
>
> For the social anxiety, I have many suggestions. First on the list is niacinamide, which binds to benzodiazepine receptors and has a relaxing effect. I find that taking one of the 1.5 gram extended-release tablets each 12 hours works best. Picamilon is a truly great option (although you'll probably have to order it online -- Smart Nutrition's website sells it cheapest). Picamilon is a combination of niacin and GABA, bonded molecularly. GABA is the brain chemical that benzodiazepines cause to act more efficiently, but regular GABA supplements don't pass through the blood-brain barrier in sufficient quantity to help. Bonded to niacin however, it's efficiently absorbed into the brain and is an extremely effective antianxiety/antidepressant supplement.
>
> I know kava has been banned in Canada (which I think is absolutely ridiculous), but the stuff you buy in stores isn't very good quality anyway. I might suggest you order some good quality Mahakea kava from Hawai'i. Nothing beats anxiety like a properly prepared kava concoction (not even benzos, in my opinion). Other options include valerian root (especially combined with passion flower), St. John's Wort, skullcap, ashwagandha, eleuthero root, reishi mushroom, and lemon balm. I also suggest using the homeopathic remedy "Gelsemium sempervirens" in the most potent form you can find. The potency of homeopathic remedies is denoted by a number followed by usually either an X or a C. The X remedies are much more potent, and the lower the number in front of the X, the more potent it is. You just let these sweet-tasting tiny pellets under your tongue to dissolve several times a day and let them work their magic.
>
> That's all I can think of at the moment -- I'll let you know if I come up with anything else!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:19:53
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans , posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 19:23:34
> Thank you Ame.
> So, how much relief are you getting from these natural supplements? I read that you are also a OCD/anxiety patient.The supplements are helpful, but I still require a lot of strong prescription meds.
> Have you taken or are you taking any medication other than supplements?
I've taken probably 85% of the psychiatric drugs available in the U.S. Here are the supplements and medications I'm taking now:
~Klonopin (clonazepam), for social anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia -- 3mg @ 8:00, 2mg @ 2:00, & 3mg @ 8:00
~Xanax (alprazolam), same purpose as Klonopin, but only used for unusually stressful situations -- 2-8mg as needed
~Wellbutrin SR (bupropion extended-release), for motivation/confidence -- 150mg daily
~DextroStat (dextroamphetamine), for motivation/confidence/energy/ADD -- 10mg three times daily
~Desyrel (trazodone), for sleep -- 50-100mg as needed
~Ultram (tramadol), for depression/OCD -- 50mg four times daily
~Duragesic-50 (fentanyl patch), for depression/OCD/chronic fibromyalgia pain -- one patch delivering 50µg per hour, changed every two or three days
~Nicotrol Inhaler, for smoking cessation -- two cartridges daily (8mg nicotine)
~Super Earth Formula (multinutrient + herbs, antioxidants, carotenoids, enzymes, acidophilus) -- one caplet three times daily
~Picamilon -- 100mg three times daily
~Niacinamide (vitamin B3) -- 1.5 gram extended-release caplet twice daily
~Liquid B-Complex -- 1ml three times daily
~Vitamin C with Rose Hips -- 1,000mg twice daily
~Vitamin E -- 1,200 IU's daily
~Thiamine (vitamin B1) -- 500mg twice daily
~Fish oil -- 1,080mg DHA & 720mg EPA daily
~Selenium -- 100µg daily
~Calcium lactate -- 350mg three times daily
~Valerian Poppy Supreme (an herbal tincture containing valerian root, skullcap herb, California poppy herb, kava kava rhizome and root, passionflower vine, German chamomile flowers, and mugwort herb) -- 1ml three times daily
~Mahakea kava -- one ounce brewed into my special alcoholic chai, as needed ;-)>I'm going to see my pdoc next week, but I'm not sure if I have to ask for another SSRI to try or not.
>
> Any suggestions?Prozac is often very different in effect than the other SSRIs, often with fewer sexual side effects, less weight gain (usually causes weight loss, actually), etc. I'd try it if I were you. Oh, and opioid painkillers are extremely effective for OCD -- maybe you could talk to your doctor about Ultram?
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:35:09
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans » rianny, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:19:53
Ame, read that you're taking calcium lactate.
What do you make of this....was reading about anxiety on the 'net....saw this:"In people with chronic anxiety unrelated to life events, an injection of sodium lactate will trigger a panic attack. Eating a lot of foods high in refined sugar increases blood lactate levels and can induce panic in susceptible persons."
I just bought a lot of liquid calc/magn. (6 bottles), containing calcium lactate, magnesium lactate, also contains potassium lactate, some zinc lactate...lots of lactate! Is this really a problem for anxious folks?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:38:13
In reply to Ame, for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:35:09
No, I wouldn't think so... but anything's possible.
Posted by lotus on October 2, 2003, at 20:39:08
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans » rianny, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:19:53
Ame,
I recently started Lexapro,about 4 days ago,and noticed that you said Prozac had fewer sexual side effects and less weight gain compared to other ssri's.This is one of the reasons I decided to go with Lex.I was on Paxil about 2 years ago,and went off due to weight gain and sexual side effects,although it worked wonderfully for my social anxiety and obsessive thinking.Anyway, I was wondering if you've tried Lex and could offer a comparison to Prozac,as I never tried Prozac.
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:42:30
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety » lotus, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 18:54:42
One other question for you Ame.....what would be your ULTIMATE liquid anxiety killer---a liquid concoction of the ultimate, most potent ingredients that would most knock out anxiety? You must know of a product (I like sublinguals, so I'm asking for a sublingual KILLER-CONCOCTION, lol, that would be the closest thing to taking a few xanax)? Do you have a link?
Thanks Ame...hope you feel better soon Amester!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:43:17
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by lotus on October 2, 2003, at 20:39:08
I found Lexapro helpful at 40mg/day, but the sexual side effects forced me to discontinue it. I was on Prozac once at 20mg/day -- I noticed some positive effect on that dose with no side effects whatsoever. It is said that Prozac is less likely to cause sexual side effects in men -- in women, it's often just as bad as the others.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:55:21
In reply to Ame, Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:42:30
The Valerian Poppy Supreme tincture I mentioned I was taking is definitely the most potent I've come across... truly great product. For some reason my browser isn't working properly so I can't find the link for it, but you can Google it -- just look for "Gaia Herbs", that's the manufacturer.
I'm already starting to feel even better... and that oh-so-beautiful opioid euphoria is kicking in, but it's going to become wayyyyy stronger in a few hours... heh heh heh. ;-)
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:55:56
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety » lotus, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 18:54:42
"Take tryptophan with a small amount of carbohydrates (i.e. a piece of fruit, a slice of bread) but on an otherwise empty stomach"
>>>>>>> What if the tryptophan is in powder form---what is the best thing to mix w/ it? (Should you still eat some low carbs w/ it?) Would eating a teeny amount of protein with it (like a tiny amount found in a cracker) matter? Lastly, did you ever buy and start using that tryptophan from Larry's link (made for Secretariat and Trigger, lol)? I bought some but haven't used it yet.
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:00:20
In reply to Re: Ame, Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:55:21
"it's going to become wayyyyy stronger in a few hours... heh heh heh"
LOL!
Ame, I already DID buy the Valerian Supreme Poppy....it didn't do that much to me, lol! Nowhere near like a xanax or low-dose Remeron.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:01:29
In reply to Ame, Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 20:55:56
The powdered form will also work more efficiently taken with carbohydrates, but any amount of protein will inhibit its absorption into the brain because all the other amino acids in protein are competing to get into the brain as well.
I've decided it's better not to try it, since I'm taking Ultram and trazodone -- risk of serotonin syndrome. No reason anyway -- I feel just fine.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:04:08
In reply to Ame, Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:00:20
Wow, that's odd. I'd suggest buying a pure California poppy extract then, or ordering Mahakea kava from Hawai'i. If you decide to go the kava way (which is way more potent) I'll tell you how to best prepare it to ensure you're getting all of the kavalactones you need.
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:06:10
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans » rianny, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:19:53
Ame, I was wondering, if you would ever go to the hospital for something...or a dentist or wherever...and they always ask, "Are you taking any medications?"....do you get a really 'odd' look when you tell them all the meds you're taking?
I hate answering that question...sometimes I just say, "No, I don't take any", lol.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:10:31
In reply to Ame, Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:06:10
Actually, I've never been questioned about my meds or even gotten a funny look about them. I guess a lot of doctors have pretty much seen it all so they don't consider it a big deal. I mean, my GP knew I was already on half a dozen other drugs yesterday, but had no problem whatsoever in writing out a script for a month's worth of Duragesic-50 and trazodone.
Posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 21:15:30
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by lotus on October 2, 2003, at 20:39:08
I have taken Lexapro (Celexa). That is the medicine I used to take until a month ago. I hated it really. It even changed my personality to mild stupid slow. I even feel uncomfortable when I hear the words "Celexa". I really want to shovel a grenade or something in ass of Celexa producer.
Now, I'll try Prozac next and see how it goes.
> Ame,
> I recently started Lexapro,about 4 days ago,and noticed that you said Prozac had fewer sexual side effects and less weight gain compared to other ssri's.This is one of the reasons I decided to go with Lex.I was on Paxil about 2 years ago,and went off due to weight gain and sexual side effects,although it worked wonderfully for my social anxiety and obsessive thinking.Anyway, I was wondering if you've tried Lex and could offer a comparison to Prozac,as I never tried Prozac.
>
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:16:11
In reply to Re: Ame, Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:10:31
Ame.....I'd love to drink one of those high-powered kava elixirs, lol.....but I'm just looking for a sublingual anxiety agent (I probably wouldn't care to take the time to prepare the Hawaiin kava thingy....I'd rather just take a quick dropperful, lol)....would valerian or kava pack the better 'punch'?
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:20:31
In reply to Ame, Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:16:11
Kava, most definitely... but as I've said before, all the products sold in stores here in the U.S. are total crap. I bet some of those places in Hawai'i or Oceania that sell the potent strains of kava make ultra-potent tinctures... I'll look into it.
Posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 21:23:49
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans ?rianny, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 20:19:53
Wow, you seem like taking so many medicines.
I have two more questions:1. What does opioid exactly indicate? Is it just pain killers like Tyrenol or something?
2. What is Ultram? If I remember correctly, I read that pdocs usually don't prescribe it because it's addictive. I also have a book about OCD, and it lists most of the meds the patients could try, but I could not find Ultram in that list.
> > Thank you Ame.
> > So, how much relief are you getting from these natural supplements? I read that you are also a OCD/anxiety patient.
>
> The supplements are helpful, but I still require a lot of strong prescription meds.
>
> > Have you taken or are you taking any medication other than supplements?
>
> I've taken probably 85% of the psychiatric drugs available in the U.S. Here are the supplements and medications I'm taking now:
>
> ~Klonopin (clonazepam), for social anxiety, panic disorder, and agoraphobia -- 3mg @ 8:00, 2mg @ 2:00, & 3mg @ 8:00
> ~Xanax (alprazolam), same purpose as Klonopin, but only used for unusually stressful situations -- 2-8mg as needed
> ~Wellbutrin SR (bupropion extended-release), for motivation/confidence -- 150mg daily
> ~DextroStat (dextroamphetamine), for motivation/confidence/energy/ADD -- 10mg three times daily
> ~Desyrel (trazodone), for sleep -- 50-100mg as needed
> ~Ultram (tramadol), for depression/OCD -- 50mg four times daily
> ~Duragesic-50 (fentanyl patch), for depression/OCD/chronic fibromyalgia pain -- one patch delivering 50µg per hour, changed every two or three days
> ~Nicotrol Inhaler, for smoking cessation -- two cartridges daily (8mg nicotine)
> ~Super Earth Formula (multinutrient + herbs, antioxidants, carotenoids, enzymes, acidophilus) -- one caplet three times daily
> ~Picamilon -- 100mg three times daily
> ~Niacinamide (vitamin B3) -- 1.5 gram extended-release caplet twice daily
> ~Liquid B-Complex -- 1ml three times daily
> ~Vitamin C with Rose Hips -- 1,000mg twice daily
> ~Vitamin E -- 1,200 IU's daily
> ~Thiamine (vitamin B1) -- 500mg twice daily
> ~Fish oil -- 1,080mg DHA & 720mg EPA daily
> ~Selenium -- 100µg daily
> ~Calcium lactate -- 350mg three times daily
> ~Valerian Poppy Supreme (an herbal tincture containing valerian root, skullcap herb, California poppy herb, kava kava rhizome and root, passionflower vine, German chamomile flowers, and mugwort herb) -- 1ml three times daily
> ~Mahakea kava -- one ounce brewed into my special alcoholic chai, as needed ;-)
>
> >I'm going to see my pdoc next week, but I'm not sure if I have to ask for another SSRI to try or not.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
>
> Prozac is often very different in effect than the other SSRIs, often with fewer sexual side effects, less weight gain (usually causes weight loss, actually), etc. I'd try it if I were you. Oh, and opioid painkillers are extremely effective for OCD -- maybe you could talk to your doctor about Ultram?
Posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:24:58
In reply to Re: Ame, Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans » McPac, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:20:31
" I bet some of those places in Hawai'i or Oceania that sell the potent strains of kava make ultra-potent tinctures... I'll look into it."
OK, Thanks Ame....I'd love to get a potent brand!
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:39:38
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety ?Ame Sans, posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 21:23:49
> 1. What does opioid exactly indicate? Is it just pain killers like Tyrenol or something?
lol, far from Tylenol. Opioids are pain-killers that bind to opioid receptors in the body. Morphine is the prototypical opioid which is quite potent -- but the daily dose of fentanyl that I get from Duragesic is fifty times more potent than intravenous morphine, and 25 times more potent than heroin. That is, 1.2mg of fentanyl = 50mg IV morphine = 25mg heroin.
> 2. What is Ultram? If I remember correctly, I read that pdocs usually don't prescribe it because it's addictive. I also have a book about OCD, and it lists most of the meds the patients could try, but I could not find Ultram in that list.Right, many don't prescribe it -- it can be quite addictive as it is an opioid (albeit the second weakest one there is, after Darvon which is less powerful than aspirin). There have been case reports and studies concerning use of Ultram in treating OCD and depression, showing it to be extremely effective with very few side effects and tolerance usually developing very slowly.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:42:32
In reply to Re: Ame, Supplements for OCD + social anxiety Ame Sans, posted by McPac on October 2, 2003, at 21:24:58
> OK, Thanks Ame....I'd love to get a potent brand!
You're welcome -- I'll let you know if I find anything. Though if I don't, it's very easy to create your own tinctures at home using just kava root and 100-proof vodka. I could explain the process, which isn't very involved.
Posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 22:01:09
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety ?Ame Sans ?rianny, posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 2, 2003, at 21:39:38
Where do you usually get those natural supplements you take? Are they sold in durg marts or do you order online?
> > 1. What does opioid exactly indicate? Is it just pain killers like Tyrenol or something?
>
> lol, far from Tylenol. Opioids are pain-killers that bind to opioid receptors in the body. Morphine is the prototypical opioid which is quite potent -- but the daily dose of fentanyl that I get from Duragesic is fifty times more potent than intravenous morphine, and 25 times more potent than heroin. That is, 1.2mg of fentanyl = 50mg IV morphine = 25mg heroin.
>
> > 2. What is Ultram? If I remember correctly, I read that pdocs usually don't prescribe it because it's addictive. I also have a book about OCD, and it lists most of the meds the patients could try, but I could not find Ultram in that list.
>
> Right, many don't prescribe it -- it can be quite addictive as it is an opioid (albeit the second weakest one there is, after Darvon which is less powerful than aspirin). There have been case reports and studies concerning use of Ultram in treating OCD and depression, showing it to be extremely effective with very few side effects and tolerance usually developing very slowly.
Posted by Ame Sans Vie on October 3, 2003, at 10:17:25
In reply to Re: Supplements for OCD + social anxiety ?Ame Sans, posted by rianny on October 2, 2003, at 22:01:09
I get them at a health food store here called Basic Foods. I've found that, with shipping and handling and all, it costs about the same to buy the stuff online as in the stores, and buying it in the store I don't have to wait for it to arrive. The only one I order online is the picamilon, since it isn't commonly sold in the U.S.
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