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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 60 to 84 of 96. Go back in thread:
Posted by pontormo on September 15, 2014, at 11:53:16
In reply to Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2014, at 20:45:10
That definitely clears that up. So you meant simply, unless one repents, she or he will perish-- I get it.
But are you saying, then, that you will never die? I ask out of curiosity because I've never heard of that claim before.
However thanks a lot for clearing up my misunderstanding.
Posted by SLS on September 15, 2014, at 12:22:26
In reply to Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 14, 2014, at 20:45:10
> It has been revealed to me that one could not die even though all die as you wrote. But one can overcome death and never die.
> In my use of the word "parish", the verse cited was that unless one repents, they shall perish. This means that if one does repent, they will not perish, or die as you wrote. Those that repent can receive Eternal Life and never die, as it has been revealed to me.
> And going back to that Road that I was writing about, the broken road, that is the road with heartaches and evilness that many take that goes away from God (readers be advised that the God in my writings is the God that the Jews give service and worship to).
> And on that road, they could turn back, back to God from where they once belonged. It is this turning back to God that I have been writing about here. For all we like sheep have gone astray as the scripture states, but there could be a calling from the Shepherd to turn around before it is too late. For the broken road leads to death.
Your declarations appear to be exclusionist to me.
Do you see any similarities between your declarations and the following verse from the New Testament?
"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:6)
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2014, at 15:46:27
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc, posted by pontormo on September 15, 2014, at 11:53:16
> That definitely clears that up. So you meant simply, unless one repents, she or he will perish-- I get it.
>
> But are you saying, then, that you will never die? I ask out of curiosity because I've never heard of that claim before.
>
> However thanks a lot for clearing up my misunderstanding.
>
>
> pontormo,
You asked if I am saying that I will never die.
That is correct.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2014, at 16:23:18
In reply to Lou's reply- » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2014, at 15:46:27
> > That definitely clears that up. So you meant simply, unless one repents, she or he will perish-- I get it.
> >
> > But are you saying, then, that you will never die? I ask out of curiosity because I've never heard of that claim before.
> >
> > However thanks a lot for clearing up my misunderstanding.
> >
> >
> > pontormo,
> You asked if I am saying that I will never die.
> That is correct.
> Lou
>
> pontormo,
We have looked at,[...all we like sheep have gone astray...]. Those astray sheep are lost. But now let us look at what David, a king of the Jews, wrote.
The Lord is my shepherd
I shall not want
He makes me to lie down in green pastures (green fields)
He leads me beside the still waters
He restores my soul
He leads me in the paths of righteousness
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil for you are with me with your rod and staff that comfort me
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my ememies..you anoint my head with oil...my cup runs over
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever.
Lou
Posted by 10derheart on September 15, 2014, at 17:26:00
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-eyeaskyu, posted by pontormo on September 14, 2014, at 11:52:55
>>Also, have you added up the number of unresponded-to notifications? If so, how many are there, in your count?
Perhaps - if Lou answers this question - he would also be willing to specifically, explicitly explain what "unresponded to" means to him. I, for one, would love to know. At times, it has seemed to mean something far different from what I believe the common meaning to be...
just sayin'
Posted by 10derheart on September 15, 2014, at 17:39:47
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on September 15, 2014, at 12:22:26
Oh sheesh, Scott, you've done it now.
I don't believe that verse is allowed here. For discussion, for illustration, comparison, reference, analogy, to practice typing, or any other reason you can imagine. In fact, I think (at least for me-an evil, nasty "deputy of record") when I even accidentally glance down at John 14:6 in my Bible that I am practicing 'thought-anti-Semitism.'
I just can't get the concept through my thick head, apparently.
no. no. no. bad Scott. { ;-) }
Posted by SLS on September 15, 2014, at 19:59:51
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » SLS, posted by 10derheart on September 15, 2014, at 17:39:47
> Oh sheesh, Scott, you've done it now.
Uh-oh.
> I don't believe that verse is allowed here.
Hmm. I did not know this. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Where can I find a statement describing this policy?
> no. no. no. bad Scott. { ;-) }
I happily submit to your rebuke.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2014, at 20:51:35
In reply to Lou's reply- » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 15, 2014, at 15:46:27
Lou if I die you die it's only fair. Phillipa
Posted by bryte on September 15, 2014, at 23:02:13
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » SLS, posted by 10derheart on September 15, 2014, at 17:39:47
1=1
1-1=0
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2014, at 6:35:49
In reply to Re: Lou's reply- » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on September 15, 2014, at 20:51:35
> Lou if I die you die it's only fair. Phillipa
Phillipa,
You wrote the above.
Now all do die as the scriptures that the Jews use reveal how the God that the Jews give service and worship to created man. And those scriptures say that man was created out of the dust of the ground and that God breathed his spirit into man to give life to him to live forever and placed him in The Garden. And that at death he would return to dust. But the scriptures go on to say that the body returns to the dust of the ground but the spirit of man returns to God. The body does perish, but what of the spirit of man? Job asked, when a man dies, will he live again? And Daniel said that there would be a resurrection of the dead. And David said that he would dwell in the house of the Lord {forever}.
But there is much more to this. For the scriptures write that some could not experience the sting of death and not be harmed by {The Lake of Fire} and when their body dies, they will live for eternity as {Sons of God}.
I have written here about two roads. One a broad road that leads to destruction. And another Road that is a narrow road, that leads to Eternal Life. And the scriptures say that all we like sheep have gone astray. All of us are at one time lost sheep, without a Shepherd.
Now you may already know that I have been writing here about a Rider on a white horse. That Rider is The Word of God. And He was there in the beginning, in the midst of The Garden of Paradise.
But then along came Satan. And lied to them which brought death into the world. But the good news is that the Rider on the white horse would reverse death to bring back the Garden of Paradise to man again so that death is destroyed and there could be eternal life once again.
The Rider is seeking the lost sheep today. He is calling all, for all we like sheep have gone astray. His voice can be received, and many receive Him and go on the become Sons of God, changing their minds while on the broad broken road that leads to death, to turn around and go on the narrow road that leads to eternal life. And that life is exempt from the sting of death and the harm of The Lake of Fire.
And on that broad road there is psychology and psychiatry and religion and humanism and philosophy and atheism and others to choose from. And on the narrow road, there is no choice, for you are alone. And you can determine for yourself if that the heavens declare the Glory of God.
And while I was on that Road, I had an encounter with a Rider on a white horse. And He said to me, "If you believe in God, believe in me also, for I have come to seek the lost sheep of The House of Israel."
Lou
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2014, at 7:33:34
In reply to Lou's reply-turowdz » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2014, at 6:35:49
> God in my writings is the God that the Jews give service and worship to.
> For all we like sheep have gone astray as the scripture states, but there could be a calling from the Shepherd to turn around before it is too late. For the broken road leads to death.
> And while I was on that Road, I had an encounter with a Rider on a white horse. And He said to me, "If you believe in God, believe in me also, for I have come to seek the lost sheep of The House of Israel."
Are Buddhists and Christians eligible for Eternal life, or must they believe in the god that Jews give service and worship to - as well as the Rider you speak of - in order to receive this?
That sounds a lot like the posts that you found in the Psych-Babble archive that you now demand to be sanctioned.
What do you think of the following post?
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20040113/msgs/323021.html
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2014, at 7:36:24
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-hrmyvoyc » 10derheart, posted by bryte on September 15, 2014, at 23:02:13
> 1=1
> 1-1=0I am sure that there is a clever and profound meaning to be found in your post. However, I must admit that I am clueless as to what that meaning is.
- Scott
Posted by pontormo on September 16, 2014, at 11:28:00
In reply to Lou's reply-turowdz » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2014, at 6:35:49
Lou--
I said, that all people die, ie perish.
Then you said that not all die.
The common meaning of "die" refers to a death of the physical aspect of a person, which, might be identified with the person's spirit or not.
We all know what this meaning is.
So clearly I asked if you believed that you would die physically or not.
You said, no, you would not die physically.
Could you answer whether or not you'll die physically as everyone else does?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2014, at 16:47:26
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-turowdz, posted by pontormo on September 16, 2014, at 11:28:00
> Lou--
>
> I said, that all people die, ie perish.
>
> Then you said that not all die.
>
> The common meaning of "die" refers to a death of the physical aspect of a person, which, might be identified with the person's spirit or not.
>
> We all know what this meaning is.
>
> So clearly I asked if you believed that you would die physically or not.
>
> You said, no, you would not die physically.
>
> Could you answer whether or not you'll die physically as everyone else does?
>
> pontormo,
I am not claiming that my physical body will never die and return to the dust in the ground.
But death has been revealed to me to be an enemy. And death could be victorious or defeated.
You may already know that I have been writing here about two minds. One mind is the mind that you are born with, the flesh mind, the natural mind, the carnal mind. There is another mind that can be imputed into you from above, the spiritual mind. It has been revealed to me that to be carnally minded is death. And to be spiritually minded is life and peace. The spiritual mind has the victory over death and there is no sting in death to those that are spiritually minded. Death is defeated even though the carnal body dies. And then a spiritual body takes over the spiritual mind, in the spiritual realm. It has been revealed to me that there is no sting of death in those who die in the spiritually minded state, and have overcome the carnal mind. The grave has no victory over those and there is no sting of death and they are restored to eternal life as it was intended in the beginning, before the Great Deception caused death to come to all. This deception is still being promulgated in the world inducing death and keeping people from overcoming the carnal mind, the world and the deceiver.
And when I had an encounter with a Rider on a white horse, He said to me, "These things have I spoken to you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world. And he that overcomes, will I give to eat of The Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God"
Lou
Posted by SLS on September 16, 2014, at 21:36:47
In reply to Lou's reply-treovlyph » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 16, 2014, at 16:47:26
Hi Lou.
> And when I had an encounter with a Rider on a white horse, He said to me, "These things have I spoken to you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world. And he that overcomes, will I give to eat of The Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God"
I don't have the same spiritual belief system that you do.
I respect you.
I am tolerant of our differences.
I enjoy our similarities.
I acknowledge that there are opposing religious dogmas to reconcile if I am going to participate on the Faith board in a way that allows me to support myself and others.
I often encounter people whose passions run high when discussing religion. I try to be patient and strive to be tolerant of these passions while recognizing my own.
It occurs from time to time that someone will post something on the Faith board that I find challenging. Some things offend me. Some things scare me. However, I have concluded that it is best if the Faith board not become a battlefield. There is an abundance of Internet forums that serve as sites to wage war more efficiently.
A subset of readers could come to the conclusion that your writings along this thread suggest that Christians and non-believers of the Rider will be excluded from Eternal Life in Paradise.
I am tolerant of your expressing your beliefs, even though your posts could arouse antichristianism. Do you think I should petition Dr. Bob to sanction them, anyway?
I prefer to let your posts stand. They don't seem to attack anyone personally. Nor do they attack any named religions, even though your beliefs could be seen as being exclusionist.
We probably agree that there are very real dangers to be found in prejudice and institutionalized hate. Why have you chosen Psycho-Babble to be a battlefield?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 7:39:10
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-treovlyph » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on September 16, 2014, at 21:36:47
> Hi Lou.
>
> > And when I had an encounter with a Rider on a white horse, He said to me, "These things have I spoken to you, that in me you might have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world. And he that overcomes, will I give to eat of The Tree of Life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God"
>
> I don't have the same spiritual belief system that you do.
>
> I respect you.
>
> I am tolerant of our differences.
>
> I enjoy our similarities.
>
> I acknowledge that there are opposing religious dogmas to reconcile if I am going to participate on the Faith board in a way that allows me to support myself and others.
>
> I often encounter people whose passions run high when discussing religion. I try to be patient and strive to be tolerant of these passions while recognizing my own.
>
> It occurs from time to time that someone will post something on the Faith board that I find challenging. Some things offend me. Some things scare me. However, I have concluded that it is best if the Faith board not become a battlefield. There is an abundance of Internet forums that serve as sites to wage war more efficiently.
>
> A subset of readers could come to the conclusion that your writings along this thread suggest that Christians and non-believers of the Rider will be excluded from Eternal Life in Paradise.
>
> I am tolerant of your expressing your beliefs, even though your posts could arouse antichristianism. Do you think I should petition Dr. Bob to sanction them, anyway?
>
> I prefer to let your posts stand. They don't seem to attack anyone personally. Nor do they attack any named religions, even though your beliefs could be seen as being exclusionist.
>
> We probably agree that there are very real dangers to be found in prejudice and institutionalized hate. Why have you chosen Psycho-Babble to be a battlefield?
>
>
> - Scott
Scott,
You wrote,[...I am tolerant of your expressing your beliefs even though your posts could arouse antichristianism ...].
I am unsure as to what your criteria are that allows you to state that what I have written here could arouse antichristianism. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is your rational basis, if any, for stating that my posts here could arouse antichristianism?
B. Which post, if any, substantiates your claim, if you post something here to do so.
Lou
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2014, at 8:24:58
In reply to Lou's reply-tehykehywhey » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 7:39:10
> A. What is your rational basis, if any, for stating that my posts here could arouse antichristianism?
What is your rational basis, if any, for stating that there are posts existing in the archives that could arouse antisemitism?
> B. Which post, if any, substantiates your claim, if you post something here to do so.
If one were to examine the sum of all of your posts along this thread, they would see in your statements the suggestion that one will not reach Paradise nor receive Eternal Life unless they believe in both the god of the Jews and the Rider that you speak of. Christians do not believe in the god of the Jews. They believe in the Trinity. They also do not believe that it be necessary to believe in some Rider in order to reverse their direction down the Road you describe and turn towards the god that will guarantee that they not perish.
It seems to me that if you were to evaluate your words here as you have evaluated the words to be found in the posts of others that quote the verse contained in the book of John 14:6 of the New Testament, you must conclude that your writings could arouse antichristianism.
You have done here to others that which you decry others have done to you.
You now see how difficult it is to state one's beliefs without potentially offending or upsetting others. You have argued that stating the exclusionist principles of one's religion necessarily puts-down all other religions. That is exactly what you have done here.
Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your crusade to sanction those posts in the archives that you argue have the potential to arouse antisemitism. Your posts here have no less potential to arouse antchristianism.
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 8:38:37
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-tehykehywhey » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on September 17, 2014, at 8:24:58
> > A. What is your rational basis, if any, for stating that my posts here could arouse antichristianism?
>
> What is your rational basis, if any, for stating that there are posts existing in the archives that could arouse antisemitism?
>
> > B. Which post, if any, substantiates your claim, if you post something here to do so.
>
> If one were to examine the sum of all of your posts along this thread, they would see in your statements the suggestion that one will not reach Paradise nor receive Eternal Life unless they believe in both the god of the Jews and the Rider that you speak of. Christians do not believe in the god of the Jews. They believe in the Trinity. They also do not believe that it be necessary to believe in some Rider in order to reverse their direction down the Road you describe and turn towards the god that will guarantee that they not perish.
>
> It seems to me that if you were to evaluate your words here as you have evaluated the words to be found in the posts of others that quote the verse contained in the book of John 14:6 of the New Testament, you must conclude that your writings could arouse antichristianism.
>
> You have done here to others that which you decry others have done to you.
>
> You now see how difficult it is to state one's beliefs without potentially offending or upsetting others. You have argued that stating the exclusionist principles of one's religion necessarily puts-down all other religions. That is exactly what you have done here.
>
> Perhaps it is time for you to let go of your crusade to sanction those posts in the archives that you argue have the potential to arouse antisemitism. Your posts here have no less potential to arouse antchristianism.
>
>
> - ScottScott,
You wrote,[..Christians do not believe in the god of the Jews...(the God that Jews give service and worship to)..].
By what basis do you make that claim? (be advised that not all Christians believe in the trinity)
Lou
Posted by pontormo on September 17, 2014, at 11:36:52
In reply to Lou's reply-triune? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 8:38:37
The great preponderance of Christian sects DO believe in the trinity. The list of non-trinitiarians is mostly small and rather eccentric Christian groups. The modern groups include:
Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, Christadelphians, Cooneyites, Oneness Pentacostals, Swedenborgians, and some forms of Quakerism.
Most of these groups give some special being to Christ, although not the precise one developed by mainstream Chrisians.
The answer that not all Christians are trinitarians doesn't really dispose of Scott's question, since such a huge part of the world'religions do not accept the Jewish God, incluing of course, Buddhism, Jainism, Muslims, Shintoism, Confucianism, Hinduism and Sikhism.
I think you do owe Scott a searching answer, though, because I too had the question that he posed when I read your response.
Mustn't it be live and let live on the faith page by necessity? Each group has its own way of becoming one of the elect that necessarily excludes members of other faiths. Except in the case of extreme and offensive exclusion of the right of other religions to exist, and clear insult to another religion, religionists must really accept and embrace this discontinuity between their beliefs and those of other religions.
And occasionally these exclusive beliefs will momentarily surface. It defeats the purpose of the faith board to pursue people for mentioning this fact, if it is done respectfully and in pursuit of some personal understanding.
I don't see how it could be otherwise.
If it's done in hindrance or attack of other religions, then it's a different matter.
Posted by SLS on September 17, 2014, at 12:14:05
In reply to Lou's reply-triune? » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 8:38:37
> You wrote,[..Christians do not believe in the god of the Jews...(the God that Jews give service and worship to)..]. By what basis do you make that claim?
I don't think that it is supportive for me to enter into a lengthy discussion of religion here. There are varying beliefs as to the interchangeability of gods.
> (be advised that not all Christians believe in the trinity)
How does that change anything for those who do?
1. Be advised that not all Jews believe in God.
2. Be advised that few, if any, religions or philosophies outside of the Abrahamic (Judeo-Christian-Islam) tradition believe in the god of the Jews.
3. Be advised that few, if any, people believe in the Rider that you speak of.
4. Be advised that many people are atheist.
Your stated beliefs exclude the above enumerated peoples from entering Paradise and receiving Eternal Life.
There could be many subsets of people who would renounce their current faiths in order to adopt yours. This could arouse hatred and incite violence by these people towards those who refuse to convert to your faith.
In order for you to retain your fidelity to a doctrine that would have the moderator of these forums sanction those posts on the Faith board that describe the tenets of an exclusionist religion, you must also petition the moderator to sanction your own.
I hope that you now see the equivalence of your posts along this thread to those you cite in the archives of the Faith forum as having the potential to arouse hate and incite violence because they describe the tenets of an exlusionist religion.
Do you still feel that your crusade is supportive?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 15:29:16
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-triune?, posted by pontormo on September 17, 2014, at 11:36:52
> The great preponderance of Christian sects DO believe in the trinity. The list of non-trinitiarians is mostly small and rather eccentric Christian groups. The modern groups include:
>
> Latter Day Saints, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians, Christadelphians, Cooneyites, Oneness Pentacostals, Swedenborgians, and some forms of Quakerism.
>
> Most of these groups give some special being to Christ, although not the precise one developed by mainstream Chrisians.
>
> The answer that not all Christians are trinitarians doesn't really dispose of Scott's question, since such a huge part of the world'religions do not accept the Jewish God, incluing of course, Buddhism, Jainism, Muslims, Shintoism, Confucianism, Hinduism and Sikhism.
>
> I think you do owe Scott a searching answer, though, because I too had the question that he posed when I read your response.
>
> Mustn't it be live and let live on the faith page by necessity? Each group has its own way of becoming one of the elect that necessarily excludes members of other faiths. Except in the case of extreme and offensive exclusion of the right of other religions to exist, and clear insult to another religion, religionists must really accept and embrace this discontinuity between their beliefs and those of other religions.
>
> And occasionally these exclusive beliefs will momentarily surface. It defeats the purpose of the faith board to pursue people for mentioning this fact, if it is done respectfully and in pursuit of some personal understanding.
>
> I don't see how it could be otherwise.
>
> If it's done in hindrance or attack of other religions, then it's a different matter.pontormo,
Why did you include in your list of religions that do not accept the Jewish God ( the God that the Jews give service and worship to), Muslims?
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on September 17, 2014, at 18:44:02
In reply to Lou's reply-huzonphurst » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 15:29:16
Posted by pontormo on September 17, 2014, at 19:59:22
In reply to Lou's reply-huzonphurst » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 17, 2014, at 15:29:16
The exact list doesn't matter.
The point of my post was to wonder how you considered Scott's question.
What I was getting at is that this question had also occurred to me when I read the post that Scott was responding to.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2014, at 11:26:28
In reply to Re: Lou's reply-huzonphurst » Lou Pilder, posted by pontormo on September 17, 2014, at 19:59:22
> The exact list doesn't matter.
>
> The point of my post was to wonder how you considered Scott's question.
>
> What I was getting at is that this question had also occurred to me when I read the post that Scott was responding to.
> pontormo,
You wrote that the exact list does not matter. I am unsure as to what you want to mean by that. If you could post answers to the following, then I could respond accordingly.
True or false:
A. I do not know why you asked me, Lou, as to why I included Muslims in the list.
B. If I was to post here why I included Muslims in the list, Lou, then you could make a challenge to as if I told the truth or not by including Muslims in the list.
C. If I was to answer you, Lou, then a subset of readers could think that I was trying to mislead readers. They could have a rational basis to think that because they could understand that Muslims do not belong in that list.
Lou
>
Posted by pontormo on September 18, 2014, at 14:00:24
In reply to Lou's reply-vurazzetee » pontormo, posted by Lou Pilder on September 18, 2014, at 11:26:28
Hey Lou,
You forgot to suggest the following:
5. because I was hoping that you, Lou, would answer the important question posed by Scott.
That's really all 'm trying to ask you to do.
thanks,
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