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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 113 to 137 of 348. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 15:27:11
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
> This is *Dr. Bob's* mental health support site. There are other sites that have different rules. No matter the purpose of the site, the host has the ability and responsibility to state the terms under which his guests are allowed to post.
> What you don't have the ability to do, or the power to do, is to change Babble to suit your needs. Babble is what Babble is.
> There are those who do find the civility guidelines of Babble to their taste. Of course there are other costs of admission at Babble too. Googleability, and the buttons to Twitter and Facebook.
> Everyone has to determine if they're willing to pay the admission price to post here. Either decision is valid.** exactly, which is why I left. It is NOT safe here.
The main prob is, I got settled in here and Bob *seemed* open to change, *seemed* open to considering input from posters so as to make it 'their' site too.
But sadly no.
This is not 'OUR' site as posters, but FULLY and completely BOB's site. He does what HE wishes, irregardless of what long term posters felt.
It was at this point (after MANY attempts to reason w/Bob) that I came to realize this:
Babble is NOT a community.
It is a NOT a democracy.
It is ***BOBS KINGDOM***.
Well I for one want to have some safety and freedom and ability to put my 2 cents worth in and have it *actually* considered as needed.
I feel UTTERLY POWERLESS on this site.
I HAVE NO POWER if things go awry.
NONE.
And I certainly do NOT trust Bobs judgement to be the best for us 'here' at the time, that is NOT the way he thinks. All he seems to care about is *numbers*, not us as individuals. This WAS proven out. He did not care that MANY very capeable long term posters left. He just didn't care.
That doesn't sit well w/me.
And thats why I keep posting here cuz I feel sad when I see others going down the same road as I did. Trusting, getting invested, trusting that my input had validity, etc etc. What a waste of time :(....
So ya, I post to warn others....
And FWIW, feel free to send my post here all around the web.
BE WARNED.
Posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 16:11:29
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
>Of course there are other costs of admission at Babble too. Googleability, and for a short time, the buttons to Twitter and Facebook.
Is that true Dinah? Have the buttons really gone? I don't see them on most posts but here and there they still seem to pop up.
I am very grateful to Bob if they have been finally removed. I think it shows a big shift on his part and a real commitment to this site.
Posted by sigismund on November 3, 2010, at 16:19:06
In reply to I'm pro-block, posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 0:51:25
Me too. Just not the way it is done here.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:36:18
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members, posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 16:11:29
It's an option now. Posters can choose to opt out of the buttons. The default is to leave them on.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:37:47
In reply to The Reality of Babble, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 15:27:11
I would definitely say it is a community. *We* are the community of Babble.
It's not a democracy.
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
In reply to Re: The Reality of Babble » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:37:47
> I would definitely say it is a community. *We* are the community of Babble.
>
> It's not a democracy.Yep, the 'community' is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYYTLJ8YHi4
Under Bobs thumb.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 18:41:37
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
IMHO, an online community would require more than the handful of active members (except perhaps on the meds board) and the handful of daily posts. It's more like a teeny weeny clique.
P.S. Don't confuse "persistent" with "consistent".
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
It sometimes lessens my enjoyment of Babble, as someone who wishes to remain here, to have what appears to me to be a steady stream of criticism about Babble, about the personal qualities of remaining posters, and/or about Dr. Bob.
Negativity can be draining to my energy level.
I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
I sometimes feel a bit hurt, depending on the poster involved. (Other times I might feel aggravated, or even amused.)
Because if Dr. Bob sets the price of admission, the posters who are actively posting are the "attraction". If people don't find the attraction worth the price of admission, that's fine. But it's hard to have that pointed out with such a high degree of frequency.
By definition almost, this post is not directed at any one person. It's the critical mass. I have, in the past, proposed that Dr. Bob reserve participation on the Administrative board to those who are actively posting, on topic, on other boards. But he has rejected that idea, and prefers to allow things as they are. He apparently feels that criticisms of Babble, even if unaccompanied by other posting, are supportive to the community.
I live with that, because it is his site, and he makes the rules here.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:48:42
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 18:41:37
I think you've fairly consistently mentioned cliques as well.
clique [ kleek, klik ] (plural cliques)
noun
Definition:
exclusive group: a close group of friends or coworkers with similar interests and goals, whom outsiders regard as excluding themI see newcomers welcomed at Babble. I see a good number of the remaining Babblers make a real effort to be inclusive.
To me, that is not a clique, despite the fact that people can get rather close on Babble, and that because we are all here, we would appear to to share some interests and goals.
Of course, Babblers have no ability, beyond being welcoming and trying to be inclusive, to determine how others view them.
I'm sorry you feel excluded. Do you get that feeling at all times, or does it come more frequently when you have used terms like cliques or kiddie pools? Perhaps Babblers feel that you might not welcome inclusion to groups that you refer to in those terms? I suppose I'd feel a bit rude if I tried to force friendship on someone who does not appear to wish it.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:54:31
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
For the record, I don't feel very supported when referred to as under Bob's thumb, Bob's sycophant, Bob's follower, a clique, etc. I don't see myself as any of those things, and I doubt most others who have chosen to remain here see themselves that way either.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:01:15
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:54:31
IIRC, I've never used the word "clique" here before today, so I have no idea who you might be referring to. Perhaps you can flip what you're seeing as negativity into encouragement for Babble to be more supportive of different styles, etc..
Regardless of everything else, the OBVIOUS lack of members and posting says something. I do not see how that can be ignored or defended.
Why do you bother responding to these posts?
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:08:38
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:01:15
I'm sorry if I was mistaken in your previous use of the word clique. I've certainly perceived a certain consistency in your evaluation of those who continue to post at Babble. But I can be mistaken.
I wouldn't be surprised if the negativity on board helped contribute to the lack of posting. If I were a new member, I would be less likely to post here after reading these types of posts.
Would you prefer that I not bother to respond to your posts?
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:43:51
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:08:38
> Would you prefer that I not bother to respond to your posts?
I asked not because of my personal preference, but because these threads seem to be a source of angst for you.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:47:37
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » Dinah, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:43:51
They aren't.
But thanks for the concern.
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 23:08:16
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:47:37
Just I want noboddy else to get caught here like I did :(
WONDERFUL people, but unfortunate admin :(
Posted by vwoolf on November 4, 2010, at 0:37:04
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
I couldn't agree with you more, Dinah. I often feel anxious about coming here, and drained by the undercurrent of what seems to me to be self-destructive negativity on the site.
Psychobabble is us, we are the community, we have to learn to uphold the social pact.
> It sometimes lessens my enjoyment of Babble, as someone who wishes to remain here, to have what appears to me to be a steady stream of criticism about Babble, about the personal qualities of remaining posters, and/or about Dr. Bob.
>
> Negativity can be draining to my energy level.
>
> I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
>
Posted by SLS on November 4, 2010, at 5:37:52
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
> I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
lol.
Yes.
Perhaps there is an attraction to the stimulation that involvement in altercations offer.
- Scott
Posted by damaged on November 4, 2010, at 6:05:47
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by SLS on November 4, 2010, at 5:37:52
I stumbled into this thread an i am new.I have read arcives before jioning an admired the fiesy posts.But it is a lame an distrutive site now,with the last true members hanging in with there teeth. I dare not post as i do so with feeling an i think my feelings are not civil in the way the site wants. So i will watch from the sidelines as i have do for years.
Posted by ron1953 on November 4, 2010, at 8:53:35
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by damaged on November 4, 2010, at 6:05:47
"we have to learn to uphold the social pact."
Translation: Circle the wagons.
The referred-to posts that some are categorizing as negative are, to me, pleas for Babble to truly become a resource for people of all stripes and all styles, where members can freely, and without the burden of parsing every word in order to avoid the civility police, discuss important personal topics.
The simple FACT is that the current formula works for a very small (and declining) number of people. Even if I'm wrong about the reasons for this, there HAS to be a reason for the phenomenon, and it deserves to be examined.
John Lennon sang "Imagine", and that's what I'm asking people to do. Imagine how Babble might be if some things were handled differently. Just imagine - maybe there's common ground, after all. Change is not a bad thing.
I respect those who feel protective of Babble (I have a soft spot for Babble myself, because it's where I met my wife of nearly six years), but if current trends continue, there will be no Babble to protect (there's not much left at this point).
Posted by Toph on November 4, 2010, at 8:54:24
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
> ...I have, in the past, proposed that Dr. Bob reserve participation on the Administrative board to those who are actively posting, on topic, on other boards.You seriously thought the only people who should be able to participate on the Admin site are people who are currently active on other boards? A person's concern for administrative issues should not be defined by recent participation. Many former active participants check in to Babble periodically and may have a greater interest in the welfare of the site than you and other active posters. I have no less interest and genuine concern for the issues of my family because I am not as involved with them on a daily basis now than I did when I was young and more interacting. Your proposal is one of exclusion and puzzles me from what I know of you.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2010, at 10:02:38
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » Dinah, posted by Toph on November 4, 2010, at 8:54:24
>
> Many former active participants check in to Babble periodically and may have a greater interest in the welfare of the site than you and other active posters.You think that people who post only to criticize Bob or Babble policies have a greater interest in the welfare of the site than those who actually post supportively on the site? I guess it depends on how you define "the welfare of the site". Is the intent to support posters? Do you have any desire to support posters in other ways? Do you even read the other boards? If you do, and you see someone in need, do you try to help? Could part of your motivation be your anger towards Bob rather than your desire to support posters? It's posters who make up the site, not Dr. Bob.
> I have no less interest and genuine concern for the issues of my family because I am not as involved with them on a daily basis now than I did when I was young and more interacting.
Do you interact with them now primarily to criticize how things are done in your family? If, say, one sibling is taking on the burden of caring for your parents, does your concern take the form of complaining about their actions or about your parents? If so, how do you think they view your concern?
I suppose it is a sort of caring. Certainly Dr. Bob sees it that way.
But since those former posters who take such an interest in Babble rarely (if ever) seem to be positive about Dr. Bob and Babblers, it leads to a rather one sided contribution. The balance on the board becomes skewed from what it would be should those making use of the board be the contributors.
Again, I don't see the difference between this and a party where some people come, find it's not to their taste, say so on their way out, then return again and again to tell the host, in front of the remaining guests, just what they're doing wrong and what a miserable party it is. Put yourself in the place of the partygoers who are trying to enjoy the party. How would you feel? Would you want to hear over and over and over and *over* again what a horrible party it is?
Aside from anything else, it would require those who wish to post on Admin to actually contribute support to the other boards. I'd welcome that. If you choose to see it as exclusive, that's one way to see it. It could also be seen as asking *more* involvement.
I like you, Toph. I like Muffled. I like Alex. I'd love to interact with you all. But I don't feel like I'm really interacting with you as it stands. Exactly who is being inclusive or exclusive? Exactly who is welcoming the chance to interact with others?
It doesn't matter what I think. Dr. Bob obviously sees it as a positive contribution to Babble.
Posted by ron1953 on November 4, 2010, at 10:35:19
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » Toph, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2010, at 10:02:38
Dinah said, " Is the intent to support posters? Do you have any desire to support posters in other ways? Do you even read the other boards? If you do, and you see someone in need, do you try to help?"
Board stats from yesterday:
Medication: 88 posts
Social: 22 posts in 1 thread by 7 posters
Psychology: 2 posts in 1 thread, one of which was Bob doing a block
Alternative: 24 posts in 6 threads by 6 posters
Faith: 2 posts in 1 thread by 2 posters
Health: zip
Neurotransmitters: 1 post
Newbies: zip
Politics: zip
So, other than the Meds board, there's not a heck of a lot going on, and it's going on with a handful of posters. There's not much to support even if one wanted to.
If Babble was an active and thriving site with lots of members who were posting regularly, and who were content with the rules, I'd have nothing to say. But that is clearly not the case.
I'd love to support folks, but alas, the lights are on but nobody's home.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2010, at 10:39:56
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by ron1953 on November 4, 2010, at 10:35:19
I suspect that if you really put your mind to it, you could find someone to support other than by protesting Bob. If that's your wish. In fact, if you add your voice to supporting others, babble might be a more appealing place. People like to post where there are those who will be supportive and interested in what they have to say.
Posting has dropped off for many reasons. I could include in those reasons the general tone of negativity.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2010, at 10:48:40
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » Dinah, posted by Toph on November 4, 2010, at 8:54:24
> Many former active participants check in to Babble periodically and may have a greater interest in the welfare of the site than you and other active posters.
"Greater". Not even equal, but "greater". There does seem to be that undertone to many posts on Admin. Perhaps it's thought that if people really cared about Babblers they ought to ignore them and concentrate on being critical of Bob.
And to what purpose? I seriously doubt Dr. Bob is going to suddenly, upon reaching a certain threshold of negative remarks from those who have no desire to post here, smack his head and declare he's been wrong all this time about blocks and posting standards.
Exactly what are all these people who are said to care so much about Babble trying to achieve? Is the goal to change Babble or to make sure everyone knows how awful it is, so everyone leaves? If it's to change Babble, this method hasn't really seemed to have had a great deal of effect.
Posted by ron1953 on November 4, 2010, at 10:50:52
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2010, at 10:39:56
THERE'S VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO SUPPORT !!!! (caps intentional)
What part of that is unclear? I'm not protesting; I'm encouraging members to look at the facts of this site's apparent moribundity, and to consider possible enhancements, which includes questioning Bob (for reasons obvious to me).
Again, if the status quo pointed to vitality, I'd have no criticism.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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