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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 108 to 132 of 348. Go back in thread:
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 13:35:39
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 13:10:36
I thought of the busiest board on Babble - Medication, where in a forum sponsored by a (I assume) licensed and DEA-registered physician, laypeople freely give advice on powerful medications. Doesn't sound safe to me......
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 13:10:36
It makes sense that you would prefer an environment like the first group. It helped you a lot, and you found it beneficial. Perhaps others wouldn't have found it as beneficial, and would have found the second group more beneficial.
This is *Dr. Bob's* mental health support site. There are other sites that have different rules. No matter the purpose of the site, the host has the ability and responsibility to state the terms under which his guests are allowed to post.
Babble can't be all things to all people. It can't even be the best thing for all people, because different people have different needs.
If you get benefit from posting at Babble under site rules, then it would be worthwhile to you to follow those rules and continue to post. Following the rules at Babble is more or less the cost of admission. If the cost isn't worth it to you, then it's not. It's your choice, and you have the ability to choose the environment that suits your needs.
What you don't have the ability to do, or the power to do, is to change Babble to suit your needs. Babble is what Babble is.
Mind you, I try as much as anyone to influence Dr. Bob. I try to find new ways to present situations to him, so as to change his point of view. But anything beyond that is beyond my power.
There are those who do find the civility guidelines of Babble to their taste. Of course there are other costs of admission at Babble too. Googleability, and for a short time, the buttons to Twitter and Facebook.
Everyone has to determine if they're willing to pay the admission price to post here. Either decision is valid.
But it *is* each poster's decision, not Bob's. Bob's decisions involve setting the rules and conditions. Dr. Bob can't make our choices for us any more than we can make his choices for him.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 14:33:08
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:42:20
In reply to Quote, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 14:33:08
You've been fairly consistent in your message about Dr. Bob and Babble, as far as I can recall.
I wouldn't say it indicated that your mind was small.
Although certainly I can find worse comparisons than to statesmen and philosophers.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 15:00:38
In reply to Re: Quote » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:42:20
> You've been fairly consistent in your message about Dr. Bob and Babble, as far as I can recall.
>
> I wouldn't say it indicated that your mind was small.
>
> Although certainly I can find worse comparisons than to statesmen and philosophers.Good point. I believe I'll take it. Bye.
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 15:27:11
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
> This is *Dr. Bob's* mental health support site. There are other sites that have different rules. No matter the purpose of the site, the host has the ability and responsibility to state the terms under which his guests are allowed to post.
> What you don't have the ability to do, or the power to do, is to change Babble to suit your needs. Babble is what Babble is.
> There are those who do find the civility guidelines of Babble to their taste. Of course there are other costs of admission at Babble too. Googleability, and the buttons to Twitter and Facebook.
> Everyone has to determine if they're willing to pay the admission price to post here. Either decision is valid.** exactly, which is why I left. It is NOT safe here.
The main prob is, I got settled in here and Bob *seemed* open to change, *seemed* open to considering input from posters so as to make it 'their' site too.
But sadly no.
This is not 'OUR' site as posters, but FULLY and completely BOB's site. He does what HE wishes, irregardless of what long term posters felt.
It was at this point (after MANY attempts to reason w/Bob) that I came to realize this:
Babble is NOT a community.
It is a NOT a democracy.
It is ***BOBS KINGDOM***.
Well I for one want to have some safety and freedom and ability to put my 2 cents worth in and have it *actually* considered as needed.
I feel UTTERLY POWERLESS on this site.
I HAVE NO POWER if things go awry.
NONE.
And I certainly do NOT trust Bobs judgement to be the best for us 'here' at the time, that is NOT the way he thinks. All he seems to care about is *numbers*, not us as individuals. This WAS proven out. He did not care that MANY very capeable long term posters left. He just didn't care.
That doesn't sit well w/me.
And thats why I keep posting here cuz I feel sad when I see others going down the same road as I did. Trusting, getting invested, trusting that my input had validity, etc etc. What a waste of time :(....
So ya, I post to warn others....
And FWIW, feel free to send my post here all around the web.
BE WARNED.
Posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 16:11:29
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 14:08:37
>Of course there are other costs of admission at Babble too. Googleability, and for a short time, the buttons to Twitter and Facebook.
Is that true Dinah? Have the buttons really gone? I don't see them on most posts but here and there they still seem to pop up.
I am very grateful to Bob if they have been finally removed. I think it shows a big shift on his part and a real commitment to this site.
Posted by sigismund on November 3, 2010, at 16:19:06
In reply to I'm pro-block, posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 0:51:25
Me too. Just not the way it is done here.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:36:18
In reply to Re: A Question for Pro-block Members, posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 16:11:29
It's an option now. Posters can choose to opt out of the buttons. The default is to leave them on.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:37:47
In reply to The Reality of Babble, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 15:27:11
I would definitely say it is a community. *We* are the community of Babble.
It's not a democracy.
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
In reply to Re: The Reality of Babble » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 16:37:47
> I would definitely say it is a community. *We* are the community of Babble.
>
> It's not a democracy.Yep, the 'community' is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYYTLJ8YHi4
Under Bobs thumb.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 18:41:37
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
IMHO, an online community would require more than the handful of active members (except perhaps on the meds board) and the handful of daily posts. It's more like a teeny weeny clique.
P.S. Don't confuse "persistent" with "consistent".
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
It sometimes lessens my enjoyment of Babble, as someone who wishes to remain here, to have what appears to me to be a steady stream of criticism about Babble, about the personal qualities of remaining posters, and/or about Dr. Bob.
Negativity can be draining to my energy level.
I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
I sometimes feel a bit hurt, depending on the poster involved. (Other times I might feel aggravated, or even amused.)
Because if Dr. Bob sets the price of admission, the posters who are actively posting are the "attraction". If people don't find the attraction worth the price of admission, that's fine. But it's hard to have that pointed out with such a high degree of frequency.
By definition almost, this post is not directed at any one person. It's the critical mass. I have, in the past, proposed that Dr. Bob reserve participation on the Administrative board to those who are actively posting, on topic, on other boards. But he has rejected that idea, and prefers to allow things as they are. He apparently feels that criticisms of Babble, even if unaccompanied by other posting, are supportive to the community.
I live with that, because it is his site, and he makes the rules here.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:48:42
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 18:41:37
I think you've fairly consistently mentioned cliques as well.
clique [ kleek, klik ] (plural cliques)
noun
Definition:
exclusive group: a close group of friends or coworkers with similar interests and goals, whom outsiders regard as excluding themI see newcomers welcomed at Babble. I see a good number of the remaining Babblers make a real effort to be inclusive.
To me, that is not a clique, despite the fact that people can get rather close on Babble, and that because we are all here, we would appear to to share some interests and goals.
Of course, Babblers have no ability, beyond being welcoming and trying to be inclusive, to determine how others view them.
I'm sorry you feel excluded. Do you get that feeling at all times, or does it come more frequently when you have used terms like cliques or kiddie pools? Perhaps Babblers feel that you might not welcome inclusion to groups that you refer to in those terms? I suppose I'd feel a bit rude if I tried to force friendship on someone who does not appear to wish it.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:54:31
In reply to Under Bobs thumb, posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 18:04:32
For the record, I don't feel very supported when referred to as under Bob's thumb, Bob's sycophant, Bob's follower, a clique, etc. I don't see myself as any of those things, and I doubt most others who have chosen to remain here see themselves that way either.
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:01:15
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:54:31
IIRC, I've never used the word "clique" here before today, so I have no idea who you might be referring to. Perhaps you can flip what you're seeing as negativity into encouragement for Babble to be more supportive of different styles, etc..
Regardless of everything else, the OBVIOUS lack of members and posting says something. I do not see how that can be ignored or defended.
Why do you bother responding to these posts?
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:08:38
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:01:15
I'm sorry if I was mistaken in your previous use of the word clique. I've certainly perceived a certain consistency in your evaluation of those who continue to post at Babble. But I can be mistaken.
I wouldn't be surprised if the negativity on board helped contribute to the lack of posting. If I were a new member, I would be less likely to post here after reading these types of posts.
Would you prefer that I not bother to respond to your posts?
Posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:43:51
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:08:38
> Would you prefer that I not bother to respond to your posts?
I asked not because of my personal preference, but because these threads seem to be a source of angst for you.
Posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:47:37
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » Dinah, posted by ron1953 on November 3, 2010, at 21:43:51
They aren't.
But thanks for the concern.
Posted by muffled on November 3, 2010, at 23:08:16
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb » ron1953, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 21:47:37
Just I want noboddy else to get caught here like I did :(
WONDERFUL people, but unfortunate admin :(
Posted by vwoolf on November 4, 2010, at 0:37:04
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
I couldn't agree with you more, Dinah. I often feel anxious about coming here, and drained by the undercurrent of what seems to me to be self-destructive negativity on the site.
Psychobabble is us, we are the community, we have to learn to uphold the social pact.
> It sometimes lessens my enjoyment of Babble, as someone who wishes to remain here, to have what appears to me to be a steady stream of criticism about Babble, about the personal qualities of remaining posters, and/or about Dr. Bob.
>
> Negativity can be draining to my energy level.
>
> I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
>
Posted by SLS on November 4, 2010, at 5:37:52
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
> I don't think I've ever been in a group of people where so many people who have chosen not to remain part of the group, still remain a part of the group for purposes of telling people how they no longer wish to be part of the group.
lol.
Yes.
Perhaps there is an attraction to the stimulation that involvement in altercations offer.
- Scott
Posted by damaged on November 4, 2010, at 6:05:47
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by SLS on November 4, 2010, at 5:37:52
I stumbled into this thread an i am new.I have read arcives before jioning an admired the fiesy posts.But it is a lame an distrutive site now,with the last true members hanging in with there teeth. I dare not post as i do so with feeling an i think my feelings are not civil in the way the site wants. So i will watch from the sidelines as i have do for years.
Posted by ron1953 on November 4, 2010, at 8:53:35
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by damaged on November 4, 2010, at 6:05:47
"we have to learn to uphold the social pact."
Translation: Circle the wagons.
The referred-to posts that some are categorizing as negative are, to me, pleas for Babble to truly become a resource for people of all stripes and all styles, where members can freely, and without the burden of parsing every word in order to avoid the civility police, discuss important personal topics.
The simple FACT is that the current formula works for a very small (and declining) number of people. Even if I'm wrong about the reasons for this, there HAS to be a reason for the phenomenon, and it deserves to be examined.
John Lennon sang "Imagine", and that's what I'm asking people to do. Imagine how Babble might be if some things were handled differently. Just imagine - maybe there's common ground, after all. Change is not a bad thing.
I respect those who feel protective of Babble (I have a soft spot for Babble myself, because it's where I met my wife of nearly six years), but if current trends continue, there will be no Babble to protect (there's not much left at this point).
Posted by Toph on November 4, 2010, at 8:54:24
In reply to Re: Under Bobs thumb, posted by Dinah on November 3, 2010, at 19:37:28
> ...I have, in the past, proposed that Dr. Bob reserve participation on the Administrative board to those who are actively posting, on topic, on other boards.You seriously thought the only people who should be able to participate on the Admin site are people who are currently active on other boards? A person's concern for administrative issues should not be defined by recent participation. Many former active participants check in to Babble periodically and may have a greater interest in the welfare of the site than you and other active posters. I have no less interest and genuine concern for the issues of my family because I am not as involved with them on a daily basis now than I did when I was young and more interacting. Your proposal is one of exclusion and puzzles me from what I know of you.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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