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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 76 to 100 of 348. Go back in thread:
Posted by sigismund on October 30, 2010, at 0:30:04
In reply to Re: more blocks » sigismund, posted by twinleaf on October 29, 2010, at 21:11:16
It's like Monopoly then?
Go to jail, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Posted by Zeba on October 30, 2010, at 1:19:58
In reply to Re: more blocks, posted by twinleaf on October 29, 2010, at 6:26:12
> I didn't write that with the intention of being critical. I was just expressing my personal reaction to what seemed to me to be an unusual reason for a block.. It did not cross my mind that my post would result in a block. I certainly do not want to be blocked for a year for a statement which was innocent in its intentions, so I would like to withdraw that statement.
Twinleaf - no matter what you say, you are likely to be blocked soon. Best to just drop it. Some folks are definitely in the headlights, and well, I think you understand what I mean. From what I can see, it appears you are definitely one of those people.
Posted by twinleaf on October 30, 2010, at 9:08:22
In reply to Re: more blocks » twinleaf, posted by Zeba on October 30, 2010, at 1:19:58
All of the blocks I have received have been, at their core, either because I have objected to long blocks themselves, or because I was critical about how the Facebook/Twitter issue was handled.. These were not issues involving a lack of civility to anyone, Bob included. I am apparently considered dangerous, not because I am uncivil, but because I continue to express views opposite to Bob's. They are my own beliefs and principles about Psychobabble; I would not be maintaining my integrity if I changed them. I really did not intend or want to become the poster whose every sentence is scanned for incivilities which are never there except in the mind of the moderator. I have been a caring and civil poster and do not at all deserve to be treated this way. I also did not want or intend to become the poster singled out in advance for "more blocks", which in my case would be a year long.
Babble would not have lost so much of its vitality and strong sense of community if the members' moderate, flexible views about civility, blocks and social networking had been taken into consideration. Instead, it has been shaped progressively into an overly-managed, non-democratic forum. In the process, it has lost much of its social relevance and personal impact.
I'm personally very sorry to see that happen, I feel that I did my small part as best I could to help prevent that outcome. But now, it's time to leave. I am going to miss many, many posters, so I won't name them in case I leave out someone important to me. Many of them aren't actively posting any longer, but perhaps they are still reading. I have much to thank people for here, including learning about the physiological basis of depression, as well as about TMS and tianeptine, which were clinically very helpful to me. Even more, I am grateful for the support and mutual sharing which took place on Psychology. In any event, I wish everyone the very best, now and in the future. I'll plan to drop by from time to time.
'Bye all.
Posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 11:01:23
In reply to time to say goodbye..., posted by twinleaf on October 30, 2010, at 9:08:22
Even if Dr. Bob's interpretation of your Admin posts may be a bit sensitive at the moment, Psychology board posters have greeted your return with delight.
Maybe you could just avoid admin? Dr. Bob may run Babble, but Dr. Bob isn't the real incentive for posting at Babble. As long as he doesn't do anything like adding the buttons again, I see no reason that what happens on Admin needs to effect Psychology.
Besides, I've rarely found engaging with Dr. Bob, particularly about topics that aren't new, to be all that effective to change things in the direction I'd like. The only appeals I've found useful at all are ones that help him gain a new point of view about something. An ah-hah moment, so to speak. I'm a pragmatist at heart. There are things I cannot change, and Dr. Bob's heart and mind on the topic of longstanding issues is one of those things.
Posted by Free on October 30, 2010, at 12:10:25
In reply to Please don't go » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on October 30, 2010, at 11:01:23
> Even if Dr. Bob's interpretation of your Admin posts may be a bit sensitive at the moment, Psychology board posters have greeted your return with delight.
>
> Maybe you could just avoid admin? Dr. Bob may run Babble, but Dr. Bob isn't the real incentive for posting at Babble. As long as he doesn't do anything like adding the buttons again, I see no reason that what happens on Admin needs to effect Psychology.
...
>
>The Psychology board used to be one of the hotbeds for PBCs and blocks before everyone either left or got blocked or both. That's where I saw Twinleaf get PBC'd left and right for trying to help other babblers in trouble. At times, it appeared as though she couldn't speak without getting handed a citation. And from there on, Twinleaf's blocks seemed to multiply exponentially to lengthy one year blocks.
As much as I'm going to miss reading posts from someone of her caliber, frankly, I worry for her. I feel very badly for what she's gone through.
Hey Twinleaf, I don't post much, but it was obvious to me how hard you tried this time around. I'm glad you're doing well. I can only imagine all the conversations you must have had with your T about your interactions at babble. Your analyst must be amazing. :)
Posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 18:40:27
In reply to time to say goodbye..., posted by twinleaf on October 30, 2010, at 9:08:22
> 'Bye all.
Damn.
:-(
- Scott
Posted by Justherself54 on October 30, 2010, at 18:45:59
In reply to Re: time to say goodbye... » twinleaf, posted by SLS on October 30, 2010, at 18:40:27
Posted by rskontos on October 31, 2010, at 1:21:25
In reply to Re: Please don't go, posted by Free on October 30, 2010, at 12:10:25
> > Even if Dr. Bob's interpretation of your Admin posts may be a bit sensitive at the moment, Psychology board posters have greeted your return with delight.
> >
> > Maybe you could just avoid admin? Dr. Bob may run Babble, but Dr. Bob isn't the real incentive for posting at Babble. As long as he doesn't do anything like adding the buttons again, I see no reason that what happens on Admin needs to effect Psychology.
> ...
> >
> >
>
> The Psychology board used to be one of the hotbeds for PBCs and blocks before everyone either left or got blocked or both. That's where I saw Twinleaf get PBC'd left and right for trying to help other babblers in trouble. At times, it appeared as though she couldn't speak without getting handed a citation. And from there on, Twinleaf's blocks seemed to multiply exponentially to lengthy one year blocks.
>
> As much as I'm going to miss reading posts from someone of her caliber, frankly, I worry for her. I feel very badly for what she's gone through.
>
> Hey Twinleaf, I don't post much, but it was obvious to me how hard you tried this time around. I'm glad you're doing well. I can only imagine all the conversations you must have had with your T about your interactions at babble. Your analyst must be amazing. :)Free, I agree with you. I feel that Twinleaf is a special person and we all miss her tremendously. I personally feel that rarely do we as fellow babblers ever know when someone we care about is either in trouble or in danger of getting blocks. I personally think blocks are punative to the community of babblers and to those being blocked I have been here off and on for awhile and I have seen many blocks for things I felt were not uncivil but I know it is not my site, but I can disagree. Unfortunately all these blocks and all the rules changing so fast it is hard to keep up with makes me feel like that is the reason babble seems dried up. So many great people are blocked right now and it hurts all of us when they are blocked. I love psychology but the things here on admin just simply hurtful because I miss so many wonderful people that are no longer here. It is a shame. It also makes me feel like I can't post because I can tell you right now a block would send me in a tailspin. Downward tailspin.
But that is my humble lowly opinion and I am sure I am not allowed to have it.
rsk
Posted by sigismund on October 31, 2010, at 2:46:04
In reply to Re: Please don't go Twinleaf » Free, posted by rskontos on October 31, 2010, at 1:21:25
It says a lot (about the application of the civility rules?) that someone like Twinleaf should have fallen foul of them by pursuing issues of principle.
Posted by ron1953 on October 31, 2010, at 8:28:39
In reply to Re: Please don't go Twinleaf, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2010, at 2:46:04
Posted by Willful on October 31, 2010, at 11:49:00
In reply to (sigh) (nm), posted by ron1953 on October 31, 2010, at 8:28:39
yeah. The application of blocks is becoming seemingly even more arbitrary and capricious than ever. But as Dinah says that there's no arguing with Bob on settled points of long-standing, especially unless you've got some new idea about it-- and if there's one thing we've contested with Bob, it's his policy on blocking-- I think it's really something that we should simply accept and try to accommodate.
I personally find his blocks unfair-- and often out of kilter and not balanced-- but I just don't think that getting upset about it to the point of arguing with Bob will do anything other than further agitate and anger me.
I would hate to see twinleaf get blocked. Which she won't since she retracted her comment. Should she or ron have had to retrace or apologize? IMO no -- but it's not my board.
I hope twinleaf stays because her presence here means a lot to other people on pbabble, and I hope we are the ones she's here for. It would be great if she would reconsider and not leave-- and work on keeping away from admin-- or being very circumspect here.
I feel the same way about ron. I 've liked his contributions a lot and hate to see him blocked or gone.
So all I can say too is "sigh"--
Willful
Posted by Dinah on October 31, 2010, at 13:33:45
In reply to Re: (sigh), posted by Willful on October 31, 2010, at 11:49:00
I think Twinleaf very graciously did withdraw her statement, so I'd be very surprised if Dr. Bob blocked her for it.
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2010, at 0:37:07
In reply to Re: Please don't go Twinleaf, posted by sigismund on October 31, 2010, at 2:46:04
> I would like to withdraw that statement.
>
> twinleaf> One of the Merriam-Webster definitions for capricious is unpredictable, and that's how I meant it. That's how I see blocks, etc. - unpredictable. Is my seeing it as unpredictable somehow uncivil? I honestly and sincerely don't think so.
>
> ron1953It would be more of an I-statement to say that you're unable to predict blocks, but thanks for withdrawing and rephrasing. I'm glad we avoided more blocks this time.
--
> I personally feel that rarely do we as fellow babblers ever know when someone we care about is either in trouble or in danger of getting blocks.
Then I'm glad I said they were in danger. But were you really surprised I considered their posts uncivil?
> So many great people are blocked right now
It may be tempting to see me as responsible for reduced posting. Who do you think is blocked right now?
> It also makes me feel like I can't post because I can tell you right now a block would send me in a tailspin. Downward tailspin.
>
> rskThat's one reason I like to see posters help each other avoid blocks.
--
> It says a lot (about the application of the civility rules?) that someone like Twinleaf should have fallen foul of them by pursuing issues of principle.
>
> sigismundWhat do you think that might say about the application of the civility rules?
Bob
Posted by sigismund on November 1, 2010, at 2:01:38
In reply to Re: avoiding more blocks, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2010, at 0:37:07
>What do you think that might say about the application of the civility rules?
That some people are singled out.
Posted by ron1953 on November 1, 2010, at 9:05:06
In reply to Re: avoiding more blocks, posted by Dr. Bob on November 1, 2010, at 0:37:07
> > I would like to withdraw that statement.
> >
> > twinleaf
>
> > One of the Merriam-Webster definitions for capricious is unpredictable, and that's how I meant it. That's how I see blocks, etc. - unpredictable. Is my seeing it as unpredictable somehow uncivil? I honestly and sincerely don't think so.
> >
> > ron1953
>
> It would be more of an I-statement to say that you're unable to predict blocks, but thanks for withdrawing and rephrasing. I'm glad we avoided more blocks this time.
>
> --
>
> > I personally feel that rarely do we as fellow babblers ever know when someone we care about is either in trouble or in danger of getting blocks.
>
> Then I'm glad I said they were in danger. But were you really surprised I considered their posts uncivil?
>
> > So many great people are blocked right now
>
> It may be tempting to see me as responsible for reduced posting. Who do you think is blocked right now?
>
> > It also makes me feel like I can't post because I can tell you right now a block would send me in a tailspin. Downward tailspin.
> >
> > rsk
>
> That's one reason I like to see posters help each other avoid blocks.
>
> --
>
> > It says a lot (about the application of the civility rules?) that someone like Twinleaf should have fallen foul of them by pursuing issues of principle.
> >
> > sigismund
>
> What do you think that might say about the application of the civility rules?
>
> BobHead games, Bob. The lack of participation at Babble proves, to me, that an obvious majority doesn't care for them. Good night and good luck!
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2010, at 13:57:49
In reply to time to say goodbye..., posted by twinleaf on October 30, 2010, at 9:08:22
re: twinleaf leaving
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2010, at 14:05:04
In reply to ode to Bob, posted by muffled on November 1, 2010, at 13:57:49
OMG!!! Just watched whole vid... that time period was a *scarey * LOL!!! one for music!!
Check the look on the lead singer AAAAAAAAAAAACK!!!!
ROFL!!!
I am dating myself aren't I????
LOL!
LOL!
Posted by gardenergirl on November 1, 2010, at 15:08:10
In reply to Re: (sigh), posted by Willful on October 31, 2010, at 11:49:00
Posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 5:38:00
In reply to Re: more blocks, posted by Dr. Bob on October 29, 2010, at 0:25:33
I've said this a few times before and this is the last time I'll say it again:
> I'd like to ask those who care about ron or twinleaf -- or object to blocks in general -- to do what they can to try to prevent more blocks.
I really don't like it when you say things like the above. It sounds to me like you are putting the sole responsibility for blocks on those who are in danger of being blocked and the community rather than facing up to the substantial role that you play in choosing to interpret posts in a certain way to justify your decision to block them.
One way in which people try and prevent more blocks is by encouraging you to consider the significant role you play and also try and encourage you to change your blocking behavior.
> Protests haven't proved all that effective at preventing blocks...
Has your asking people 'who care' about x to encourage them to apologize or rephrase been all that effective in preventing blocks?
>... and may even encourage behaviors that lead to them.
'Cause you get sh*tty?
> You have the right to protest (as long as you're civil), but if your goal is to prevent more blocks, please consider a different strategy.
Ditto.
If anything... Your blocking behavior has gotten progressively worse over the years. People are leaving because... Well, many say why they are choosing to leave. But perhaps you actually like things that way...
Posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 5:39:14
In reply to Re: more blocks » Dr. Bob, posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 5:38:00
Thanks for your support and encouragement over the years. I understand why you feel like leaving (on the basis of what you have said) and respect your decision.
It is a shame that things have turned out this way.
But really, what did Bob expect?
Posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2010, at 10:46:57
In reply to Miss you twin, posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 5:39:14
I think we need to hear from the "other side of the aisle". I sure would like to know their views.
Posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2010, at 16:05:00
In reply to C'mon, pro-block members, chime in, posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2010, at 10:46:57
Posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 21:48:17
In reply to Miss you twin, posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 5:39:14
You know it is funny...
Once upon a time Bob got it into his head that a better way to go would be to move from the current autocratic system (him in charge) to a more democratic system. I guess the thought would be that we would become more civil (according to him) if we weren't rebelling against him.
This was a change because I think prior to that he thought that our protesting against his actions prevented us turning on each other. During that time he seemed to think that it was good when we spoke out against his actions because he thought that was required in order for us to play nice with each other (a kind of coming together against a common enemy thing to do).
So... Deputies arose. Part of the democratization of babble. Only problem was that many of the deputies left or ceased being deputies or got upset with Bob because even though they were supposed to share some of the power (e.g., blocking decisions) Bob didn't actually relinquish any and thus they either had to do what he would do were he to act or... Quit or be de-deputized.
So the deputy thing rather than resulting in more democracy only resulted in creating duplicate copies of the autocrat. Reminds me of something... But best not said online.
Now we have the 'report this post' feature. I wonder who chooses whether the reports will be acted upon or not.
It is his site. He seems to want to let go (at times). But... He can't. Or won't. Or probably some combination of the above.
Still. Guess he is doing us a favor, really, because as people get better... They do indeed come to see some of this. And make the decision to move on. For their own mental health.
A way of helping prevent online addiction, to be sure.
But also a way of undermining the community that was so helpfully addictive.
Still. What ya gonna do?
Posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 21:55:59
In reply to C'mon, pro-block members, chime in, posted by ron1953 on November 2, 2010, at 10:46:57
> I think we need to hear from the "other side of the aisle". I sure would like to know their views.
Well now, this is rather easy...
(Playing devils advocate - so to speak).
If there weren't any blocks at all then people would say things like 'I hate you you useless piece of sh*t' to each other. That would undermine the supportive aspect of this site and then posters would leave.
There are already a lot of online communities that don't have much in the way of moderation and because of the online disinhibition effect people really can be very hostile to each other.
This is a community that is supposed to be supportive. Some people here can't or don't stay in other online communities where people do say hurtful or unsupportive things to each other. Even without the online disinhibition effect many people are here because they find that others are hurtful or unsupportive IRL and they have trouble coping with that too. This place is special because it is meant to provide a sanctuary from such things.
The way in which it does so is for Bob to decide whether or not he will block people on the basis of what he decides is 'uncivil' words. Clearly if he didn't block people for up to one year for saying 'I think' instead of 'I feel' then the community would degenerate into people saying 'you useless piece of sh*t' to one another and then... Well... I guess then people would leave.
You know, the 'good' ones. The ones who Bob chooses not to pick apart their posts.
And that would be a horrible thing (for them).
Of course.
Posted by vwoolf on November 3, 2010, at 0:51:25
In reply to Re: C'mon, pro-block members, chime in, posted by alexandra_k on November 2, 2010, at 21:55:59
Believe it or not I do support blocks, and I have said so often before.
I think it is like the frame in therapy, without which it is not therapy. And like the frame in therapy, everyone hates it.
I think that if we as posters are prepared to look, we will see ourselves reflected in the way we respond here on Babble. Bob is merely representing, in a shadowy internet kind of way, something internal to ourselves. He stays so far out of Babble that we can't know what he is really thinking. And so we start to project.....The frame (or block) represents the edge between ourselves and reality, and so defines us. It's not really about Bob at all, although of course he is the one who holds the frame and so catches all the crossfire.
I still maintain that PsychoBabble is therapeutic, in a funny, laid-back kind of way, and it is this that distinguishes it from other sites, and what brings blocked posters back after even very long blocks.
But I do feel very sad when people I like are blocked.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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