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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:22
In reply to Omega 3 as effective as meds for some (study), posted by violette on June 24, 2010, at 20:05:03
> This was a pretty large double blind study and seemed worthwhile to read about...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect this thread to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20100516/msgs/952185.html
Please do feel free to continue this discussion there, and in general to explore the other boards here.
That will be considered a new thread, however, so if you'd like to be notified by email of follow-ups to it, you'll need to request that there. Thanks,
Bob
Posted by violette on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:22
In reply to Redirect: Omega 3, posted by Dr. Bob on June 25, 2010, at 15:50:19
Dr. Bob,
The redirects are a huge turn off from using this forum. This is my personal belief and doesn't reflect anyone who posts here--I think the seperation of health, social, psychology, medications is one reason why people have had less successful treatment outcomes and end up at this forum in the first place.
I realize you can't make everyone happy-but I did want to point that out. I'm not about to suggest how to change the rules or anything like that as you are the administrator here. I'm not sure why, if mental health professionals tend to agree with the bio-pscyho-social model of mental illness, that you wish to encourage the seperation rather than the integration of those aspects. The post I wrote about Omega 3s is as much about medication as it is about 'alternative' or wherever you sent that post to...It was a study comparing medications to a natural substance-I'm not sure why you would think it should be distanced, deemed unrelated to the medication forum discussions.
My answer is that I can choose to find other discussion forums on the web to utilize. I am already doing so, but still have a habit of checking your site.
Posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:22
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3 » Dr. Bob, posted by violette on June 26, 2010, at 15:55:32
Violette think the same always have. When a post redirected it seems to most usally die and that's it. Phillipa
Posted by janejane on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:23
In reply to Omega 3 as effective as meds for some (study), posted by violette on June 24, 2010, at 20:05:03
An FDA-approved fish oil-based drug has been available since 2004. I would think that fact would qualify it as a medication topic. (Not to mention many mainstream p-docs recommend fish oil to their patients.) The patent has just expired, so it'll be interesting to see whether more docs start prescribing it rather than suggesting (cheaper) OTC supplements if/when generics become available. The clinical evidence is promising.
Posted by atypical on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:23
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3 » Dr. Bob, posted by violette on June 26, 2010, at 15:55:32
Good points!
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 27, 2010, at 1:27:49
In reply to Re: Omega 3 as effective as meds for some (study) » violette, posted by janejane on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:23
> The redirects are a huge turn off from using this forum.
>
> I'm not sure why, if mental health professionals tend to agree with the bio-pscyho-social model of mental illness, that you wish to encourage the seperation rather than the integration of those aspects.
>
> violetteI'm sorry it turns you off. I realize it takes another click to get there. The idea is to make it easier for people to find information. If they're looking for information about medication, they can go to Medication. If they're looking for information about alternative treatments, they can go to Alternative.
Just because rice and vegetables are in different sections doesn't mean a store doesn't want you to have them together.
> An FDA-approved fish oil-based drug has been available since 2004. I would think that fact would qualify it as a medication topic.
>
> janejaneI didn't know that, what's it called?
Bob
Posted by janejane on June 27, 2010, at 5:27:02
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3, posted by Dr. Bob on June 27, 2010, at 1:27:49
> > An FDA-approved fish oil-based drug has been available since 2004. I would think that fact would qualify it as a medication topic.
> >
> > janejane
>
> I didn't know that, what's it called?
>
> BobLovaza (previously Omacor). It's approved for high triglycerides but I've seen anecdotal reports of p-docs prescribing it for mood disorders.
Posted by chujoe on June 27, 2010, at 11:00:20
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3, posted by Dr. Bob on June 27, 2010, at 1:27:49
One of the first things I noticed about Psychobabble was the way it's organized. Just as a grocery store's organization reveals -- consciously or unconsciously -- the cultural categories of its owners or managers, a site like Psychobabble reveals the cultural categories of its owner-manager. Nothing wrong with this, of course, but the site is clearly more than simply a convenient compilation of information. No system of organization is neutral. When I go shopping in Vietnam, for example, I have to go to a special store for rice. That's because rice is so central to Vietnamese culture and there are so many varieties -- an ordinary little grocery story may not even stock rice!
Violette is correct, then, to note that the system of organization here reflects a kind of parascientific way of conceptualizing mental illness, rather than a holistic one. Practically speaking, this has at least two important consequences: 1. It tends to reinforce that particular, parascientific, medicalized view of mental illness; 2. the practice of redirecting conversations tends to both demote them and cut them short (as Phillipa mentioned). The Alternative board at Psychobable: Where threads go to die.
Given the ability to search the site, it's a little difficult to understand why there is a need for all these divisions except that the divisions themselves reflect a commitment to a particular view of mental illness. My preference for the site would be to have two boards: the main discussion board and one for administrative issues such as this one.
Posted by violette on June 27, 2010, at 12:31:58
In reply to Re: Rice + Vegetables: A Meta-analysis » Dr. Bob, posted by chujoe on June 27, 2010, at 11:00:20
In addition to the cultural reflections, there are underlying economic motivations and self-serving intentions which impact the family having dinner.
A grocery store does not care if the family enjoys their dinner, unless the quality of the food sold negatively impacts sales; their goal is to make as much money as possible. Stores do market research to determine the demographics and competition in the surrounding population to determine how to best influence and draw in the target customers.
A store does not want people to save money and will often raise the price of their items while at the same time, put a large, colorful 'sale' tags on those same items so that people think they are getting a bargain when in fact, they are paying more or the same as the non-sale price for those 'sale' items. Being familar with this tactic helps me in reaching my goal-spending the least possible amount on food. Not everyone knows this-either consciously or unconsciously-because stores would not take the trouble to do this if it did not work. I wonder if more people would change their shopping behavior if they became aware of this profit enhancing, but misleading sales strategy?
It seems the goal here is mental wellness. Just like the store tactic, maybe some people with medication questions will benefit from coming across other useful information that provides benefits for which they previously had not been aware of?
It took me years in the mental health system to find appropriate treatment because I was not aware of all the treatment options. The most effective treatment for me was something I discovered by accident.
Could the goal here be to classify/archive information in such a way benefits you more than the participants?
Just wondering...If not, you could, if you wanted to, quickly create a survey monkey and solicit the opinions of your forum members. I respect the opinions of members who wish to seperate things, but maybe survey results would reveal how the majority of members think the site would be best organized? Maybe more people wish to keep things seperate, but maybe not.
Since you do often mention the desire to acquire and retain more members, stating facebook and twitter as tactics to draw in more members (does that work?), perhaps knowing-but truly emphasizing with-what members prefer and do not prefer are ways in which you could increase and retain members-which would satisfy both your purposes and the goals of members.
Decades ago-an inspiring teacher and mentor once told me: What you DON'T know is as important as what you DO know.
Wish I thought of that when I was sought mental health treatment years ago.
Posted by violette on June 27, 2010, at 13:02:34
In reply to Redirect: Omega 3, posted by Dr. Bob on June 27, 2010, at 1:13:22
I forgot to mention, most of the posts on "Psychology" are about therapy...Seems obvious that most members prefer a seperate board to discuss psychotherapy. Given that preference, doesn't it make sense to rename that board "Therapy"? I noticed that alot of posters who use the medication board, however, like to suggest other treatments to those seeking meds when they think it would be helpful.
Other than that-and Administration-I come across posts of people practically yelling for help to get better and think that perhaps if they came across 'non-medication' information provided by other posters, in addition to all the useful medication answers, they would capture more benefits by accidentally come across things that serve their ultimate goal--mental wellness?
Signing off from this issue..but anyway, thanks for listening.
Posted by Phillipa on June 27, 2010, at 19:55:55
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3 » Dr. Bob, posted by violette on June 27, 2010, at 13:02:34
Like some supplements not considered medical food Deplin is one. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2010, at 2:53:45
In reply to Re: Redirect: Omega 3 » Dr. Bob, posted by janejane on June 27, 2010, at 5:27:02
> > > An FDA-approved fish oil-based drug has been available since 2004. I would think that fact would qualify it as a medication topic.
I'd agree. :-) Thanks for educating me,
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2010, at 4:31:03
In reply to Re: Rice + Vegetables: A Meta-analysis » chujoe, posted by violette on June 27, 2010, at 12:31:58
> When I go shopping in Vietnam, for example, I have to go to a special store for rice. That's because rice is so central to Vietnamese culture and there are so many varieties -- an ordinary little grocery story may not even stock rice!
>
> Violette is correct, then, to note that the system of organization here reflects a kind of parascientific way of conceptualizing mental illness, rather than a holistic one.Like the organization of stores in Vietnam reflects a parascientific way of conceptualizing nutrition?
> Given the ability to search the site, it's a little difficult to understand why there is a need for all these divisions
There are fewer divisions now than in a long time. And another way to look at this is, yes, if someone knows what book they want, it doesn't matter how the library's organized, they can look up and find the book. But if they want to browse, they probably want related books shelved together.
> the practice of redirecting conversations tends to both demote them and cut them short
>
> chujoeWhen I redirect a thread, it's just because the posts are off-topic, not because they're less important in some way. And posters are free to continue a thread after it's been redirected. It's just one click away, in the next aisle. They don't even have to visit that board to follow it, it can notify them of follow-ups by email.
> maybe some people with medication questions will benefit from coming across other useful information that provides benefits for which they previously had not been aware of?
Maybe. Please feel free to suggest that they consider other options and explore other boards.
> Could the goal here be to classify/archive information in such a way benefits you more than the participants?
I suppose it's possible, how do you think this system might benefit me?
> you could, if you wanted to, quickly create a survey monkey and solicit the opinions of your forum members.
>
> violetteI could, but I've never been to a store that asked me how I thought their aisles should be laid out, have you?
Bob
Posted by chujoe on June 28, 2010, at 8:24:00
In reply to Re: Rice + Vegetables, posted by Dr. Bob on June 28, 2010, at 4:31:03
When I wrote that "the practice of redirecting conversations tends to both demote them and cut them short," I was simply making an empirical observation.
>>Like the organization of stores in Vietnam reflects a parascientific way of conceptualizing nutrition?<<
You misunderstand the analogy. Stores _anywhere_ reflect a paragrocitific view of nutrition. Which is just to say that there is no _natural_ way to organize the shelves in a grocery store & that actual organizations of actual shelves happen in particular cultural contexts. My point is that there is no _natural_, i.e., transparent or objective, way to organize the discussion boards at Psychobabble. This does not mean, of course, that the current organization is wrong, only that it is the result of cultural, not scientific, forces and categories. (Maybe this is obvious and goes without saying.) Or, looking at the issue from a slightly different angle, maybe the organization of the site is "scientific," in that it reflects current scientific consensus about mental illness, but that those categories are themselves culturally determined. (Despite the fact that "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions" was published more than half a century ago, I have observed that this suggestion about the cultural influence on science still makes scientists defensive.) My basic point all along, in any case, has been that the structure of the site is open to cultural forces and therefore to negotiation and, inevitably, to change. So I think we ought not to "naturalize" the current configuration, as if it reflected some sort of objective truth about the subjects under discussion.
Posted by Dr. Bob on June 29, 2010, at 23:33:00
In reply to Re: Rice + Vegetables » Dr. Bob, posted by chujoe on June 28, 2010, at 8:24:00
> My point is that there is no _natural_, i.e., transparent or objective, way to organize the discussion boards at Psychobabble. ... it is the result of cultural, not scientific, forces and categories. (Maybe this is obvious and goes without saying.) ... My basic point all along, in any case, has been that the structure of the site is open to cultural forces and therefore to negotiation and, inevitably, to change.
Sorry, I did misunderstand. I agree, this structure is influenced by our culture, and those who've been here a while know it's open to negotiation and to change.
Bob
This is the end of the thread.
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